El Al 001
Topic Author
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:25 am

Hi everyone!

I was just wondering, since the 777 is such a great a/c,
bigger than the M11 and has a greater range (772ER vs. M11), How come Boeing didnt develope yet the 777-200F???

I think that there are so many airlines who could order it, like: SIA, KAL, CPA, and all the other 777 operators!

A 777F version would carry a 75-90 tons of cargo to a 8,500-10,000 km of distance, would'nt it???

What do you think??

Michael  Smile.
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 4:02 am

I also think it would great idea to develop a B777F.

Maybe Boeing is waiting for the perfect moment to launch a B777F
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
Guest

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 4:38 am

Of course the 777 is more than capable for a freighter role, but the reason I think Boeing has not yet developed a freighter version is because the market demand is low for a brand new freighter. There are already many good numbers of passanger A300s,DC-10s, and MD-11s, and 747s out there which could be converted to freighters at a much cheaper price. Besides the point, look at how many freighters there are already. Although with the MD-11F out of production, we might now see Boeing turn to a new large capacity freighter (777F) to fill it's place.
The Best, Tom
 
KLM747
Posts: 622
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 2:07 am

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 6:12 am

Yes, the 777F ssounds great, I hope Boeing starts making them for the M11F.

KLM747 Big grin
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 7:43 am

The cargo airlines are only just starting to convert 767s and retire DC8s. The MD11 became a freighter early on in it's life cos it was a piece of sh*t no airline wanted, so they could be bought incredibly cheaply for a reasonably efficient 2-crew aircraft. You could probably get 3 or 4 MD11Fs for the price of a 777F. But the MD11 is an oddity, most freighters are 20 years old - 747 classics, DC8s, 707s, A300B4s (and that's a fairly recent development as well). There are very few A300-600R frieghters (if any), 767F is just starting to happen.

Give it another fifteen or twenty years and there'll be lots.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

Cedarjet

Fri Feb 23, 2001 8:03 am

Cedarjet said >>>
"The MD11 became a freighter early on in it's life cos it was a piece of sh*t no airline wanted, so they could be bought incredibly cheaply for a reasonably efficient 2-crew aircraft. You could probably get 3 or 4 MD11Fs for the price of a 777F."

The MD-11 is a piece of shit? Then please go and tell that to China Airlines, China Eastern, EVA, Garuda, JAL, Korean, MAS, Swissair, Thai, Alitalia, City Bird, Finnair, American, Delta, World, FedEx, soon to be UPS, and Varig. Incredibly cheap? I don't think so. MD-11s don't cost penny's, then everyone would be flying these beautys. 3 or 4 11s for the price of a 777? Alot of airlines would have liked that one.

>>>"767F is just starting to happen.

Give it another fifteen or twenty years and there'll be lots."

Just wondering? Were you talking about the MD-11?
-Tom
 
USAirways737
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:20 am

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 8:56 am

I read somewhere that the reason that Boeing has not developed a 777F is because that Boeing wants to sell its 747F only. Think about it, if there is no other option but the 747, cargo airlines will have to buy it which equals more money for Boeing since the 747 costs more than the 777.
 
trintocan
Posts: 2728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 12:55 pm

Given the fact that cargo operators most often gravitate for older planes which could be purchased cheaply and converted and the fact that brand new all-cargo planes are relatively small sellers, it does not make sense for Boeing to offer 2 all-cargo types (that is why they ditched the MD11F). In-house competition for such a small market is not a justifiable state of affairs.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
AeroGlobeAir7
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:09 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:27 pm

Boeing did actually design (or maybe it was create) a variant with a side cargo door on it during the production of the 777-200, but I don't believe they ever put it on the market. I would like to see a cargo version of it, especially in Lufthansa or UAL Cargo colors.
 
Red Panda
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2000 12:58 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:32 pm

I also believe that Boeing just want to sell their 744F instead of 777F. Since there is already 744F, there is no means to build 777F to compete with 744F. No company would develop two substitutable products at the same time.

regards,
r panda
 
Early Air
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 6:53 am

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 3:44 pm

It is too early on. Most of the owvers now convert old aircraft. Boeing knows that they will not sell a lot of the 777F's. U guarantee you will see then in the next decade or so.

Rgds,
Early Air
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 4:15 pm

Just a few examples of new aircraft purchased by cargo airlines.

727-200 Fedex
747-400 Atlas, Polar, Cargolux
757-200 UPS
767-300 UPS

DC10-30 Fedex
MD11 Fedex, Lufthansa

A300-600 Fedex, UPS
A380 Fedex (LOI)

Plus more I'm sure.


Cederjet,

MD11, cheap and a piece of s**t?

Well, s**t perhaps in your opinion. Certainly not FDX who was a launch customer. I guess its Lufthansa's policy to fly s**t now as well as such top notch carriers like UPS. This is a revelation, thanks.

Cheap, 3 or 4 MD11's for a 777F. Wow, next time a buy a car, you can talk to the salesman for me.

Red Panda,

I disagree,

A330 vs A340
B747-400 vs 777
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Fri Feb 23, 2001 9:43 pm

There will be one especially since Airbus is developing an A330 freighter.
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 3:26 am

Could it be also that Boeing has enough orders for the 777 on hand to keep it busy for the next few years? If the 777F were launched today, I guarantee the first examples wouldn't be delivered for at least five years.
 
sxmarbury33
Posts: 405
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:41 am

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 5:10 am

I kind of have to agree with cederjet on the passenger version of the MD-11 because a lot of big airline names have sold them off like delta american and a lot of other airlines have said publicly that they are not happy with the aircraft due to range i think. It seems tho that the MD-11 has found its niche as a freighter and Fed Ex is buying them up like mad from the unhappy airlines.
 
DatamanA340
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 7:02 pm

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 6:55 pm

Although sales of MD-11F is almost ended, but 777 is too big, so, as USAirways737 stated, 777F would disturb 747F. I don't believe 777F would have such long range, but 773F can carry almost much as 744F. And first of all, 777 is more expensive than 744. (as Boeing's list prices.)

But I believe there must be something like 777combi, so pax and cargo plane with both 767-like capacity and more range, and the greatest, new and sharp image.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: How Come There Is No 777F?

Sat Feb 24, 2001 9:25 pm

The MD11 is unquestionably a piece of sh*t. No other modern airliner has rolled inverted after touchdown TWICE (or at all) - FedEx and Mandarin. Passenger airlines can't get rid of it fast enough (Swissair have officially said they are looking forward to the retirement of the type...then again they would, one of theirs crashed after an electrical fire in the cockpit lest we forget).

The reason it is a popular freighter is because there are loads of second-hand examples going very cheaply. It makes sense for a cargo airline cos it has modern avionics and comes at a fraction of the cost of other modern airliners because passenger airlines don't want to fly something that has the same safety record as the 707. Sure FedEx like it, it has a lot of capacity, has a 2-crew cockpit etc., but it's acquisition cost isn't low cos the airlines prematurely retiring it are feeling generous, it's because they can't sell it for any more $$. And the reason for that is cos it's (all together now) a piece of sh*t.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz

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