Posts: 2237
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

Not That KLM-thing Again!

Mon Apr 26, 1999 8:31 pm

Pffft.... Those discussions about phasing out and buying aircraft are so stupendous. If I read the posts correctly, there are at least 6 magazines, each claiming different things about KLM widebody renewal.

To put things on order:

1: KLM has never ordered A340's, not even signed a LOI...
2: KLM never searched the market for 2nd hand MD11's...
3: IF the MD11's leave, some of them are intended to stay in the company, probably with Martinair as a freigter.
4: KLM orders planes with payload in mind, not range. And since both the 777 and A340 don't cut it for them, MTOW-wise, they'll probably go for 747-400's.
(747-400Combi has the same amount of seats as a MD11)

I won't dare guessing what they'll get in 200-300seat range... Nobody can tell, and knowing KLM, they will never tell anybody until they finally order. Face it: Nobody saw the 737-800 and -900 order coming. They are very good at keeping their orders a secret.


RE: Not That KLM-thing Again!

Tue Apr 27, 1999 2:01 am

Interesting post. A close friend of mine is a co-pilot on KLM MD-11's. He purposefully got rated for this type after serving in the same capacity on 737's and 744's. The reason is that he says the MD-11 is a "pilot's plane" Its difficult to get him to elaborate because airplanes are the last thing he wants to discuss out of the office. I will ask him about KLM's plans for fleet renewal though.

I find it interesting though that flag carriers from Non-Airbus supplier countries are the only European carriers to place significant orders with Boeing over the past several years. This includes SAS, Alitalia, and KLM as examples. Note LH, AF, Iberia, and now BA/Virgin to a lesser extent. Coincidence or heavy gov't pressure?
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Not That KLM-thing Again!

Tue Apr 27, 1999 3:45 am

Ed thats what ive been telling every body that KLM will not order the 777 as well as A340 due to its payload restrictions. I totally agree with you the fact that they ought to order more 747-400C to replace the 300's.


PS hey Ed Weet je trouwens welke zit plaats is het beste te zitten in een 767-300 op Martinair, omdat ik ga van LAX naar AMS op 14 juni.

RE: Not That KLM-thing Again!

Tue Apr 27, 1999 12:11 pm

to white knuckles:
what you've done here is called a case selection bias. You note some airlines that are not from countries part of the airbus consortium and tell us that since they purchased boeings, airbus orders are due to government pressure. You might claim you do not say that, but you know very well that this is what you mean. Well, in scholarly circles, you would have to go back home to do your homeworks, because you would have to explain why other non-airbus suppliers countries have airlines that placed airbus orders. ex: SR, OS, TP, TY, EI, OA to name only european countries. Then you would also have to explain to us why non-airbus supplier countries, that are even outside of europe -I hope you noted that SR is from a non-EU country-, such as AC, CX, UA, NW, US, etc have indeed ordered airbus... Now lets go back to the beginning, you were saying airbus orders were placed because of government pressure.....
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:18 am

RE: Not That KLM-thing Again!

Thu Apr 29, 1999 5:04 am

Who cares what kind of airplnaes Royal Dutch leases --they are stilled partnered with the atrocious Northwest. Whatever KLM once was has been greatly diminshed by the likes of "Air Detroit."

Who is online