SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 1:33 am

This is one of the best articles I've seen for some time
(My bold)

Ansett scarred in latest air-fare battle
Canberra Times - Australasia; Mar 5, 2001

BY PETER CLACK

The first casualties have been revealed in Australia's newest air-fare war and, while Qantas was announcing how many jobs are to go in the coming months, it's Ansett looking the most battle-scarred.

The airlines in Australia have had a good past few years. Qantas, in particular, has rebounded strongly from the Asian economic crisis, with each half-year result eclipsing the last as its best. But that ended as the carrier announced a 22 per cent reduction in its half-year result to December 31. Notwithstanding the reduction, their colleagues at Ansett could only have hoped for a result as good as the $263m Qantas announced. On the other side of the Tasman, Ansett's new owners, Air New Zealand, told a story of woe.

High fuel prices, reduced market share, increasing costs, lower productivity and a slower-than-expected integration between the carriers marked the last six months as a horror period for them, coming as it did on top of a maintenance oversight which grounded their Boeing 767 fleet, and a wide perception that their Olympics sponsorship was not worth what they paid for it.

But why has it been such a horror period for the two airlines? The answer lies, principally, in the hands of two, starkly different, people - Gerry McGowan, a quiet former truck driver from Newcastle, and Sir Richard Branson, a flamboyant billionaire from England.

Since Impulse airlines, under Gerry McGowan's stewardship, started one of the most aggressive and astute business ventures in Australian aviation history by setting up a war chest, buying new Boeing jets and starting services between Sydney and Melbourne, the landscape has changed. McGowan has added another 3 117-seat Boeing 717 jets to his existing five, and is now operating 19 return flights a day between Sydney and Melbourne, giving him big capacity, high frequency and, using one of the most efficient passenger jets available, a very cost-effective operation. Frequency gives him the ability to steal some of the lucrative business market from Ansett and Qantas, while capacity lets him offer discounted fares on all his flights to steal the leisure market. In addition, he's now running 10 return flights a day between Brisbane and Sydney and, unlike the old fare wars, his schedule of flights to Canberra from Sydney and Melbourne gives locals access to that new market. On the other side, Branson breezed into Australia and thumbed his nose at the establishment, promising a discount airline with a good route network and some of the flair which marks his Virgin empire around the world. Despite a shaky start, with a delay to his commencement of operations caused by a lack of certification from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, in just six months, Branson has started operations to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Townsville. Perth and Canberra are also on the radar screen.

The effect of this on Ansett and Qantas is felt in two ways. Firstly, market share for both carriers is down as the growing market is split among four carriers instead of two.

This is far more dangerous for Ansett, which was also losing the market war to Qantas.

Industry analysts suggest Ansett's market share could be as low as 40 per cent now - the lowest it has had ever. And while Qantas has lost market share because of the entry of new participants, it still has well over 50 per cent, and is doing well in the corporate and business market.

But the second effect is far more invidious. Yield is down for the airlines. Yield is quite literally the amount of money an airline earns per seat on a flight. Airlines traditionally support their ability to offer cheaper, holiday fares because of the higher yields earned on business fares, particularly by business and first class passengers. As more businesses see the quantifiable savings of the introduction of new carriers, the demand for premium services, at higher cost, is being tested.

Although there is a market for that travel, Qantas' decision to use newer aircraft on their domestic services is giving them the market edge over Ansett.

So while Ansett is losing customers from the leisure market to Impulse and Virgin, it is also losing customers from the front-end to Qantas. That's why this war is likely to claim far more casualties at Ansett than the 1470 Qantas announced on Thursday.

Lurking in the wings remains the other new player in the Australian aviation scene - Singapore Airlines. The financial strength of Singapore Airlines is the envy of every Australian airline: the carrier has announced aircraft orders in the last six months totaling $A26b, to be funded from cash flow, and announced its own half-year results to 30 September 2000 late last year, returning a $1.1b half-year profit, up 94 per cent on the previous year. Even after extraordinary items are taken out, and fuel prices included, the result is still up 38 per cent on the previous year.

Last year, Singapore Airlines completed a transaction to purchase 25 per cent of the Ansett Air New Zealand group. Last week, Air New Zealand chairman Sir Selwyn Cushing admitted that his company paid too much for Ansett. The irony is it was well-known that Singapore Airlines wanted to buy Ansett, and is probably the one airline which could have afforded to pay too much for Ansett. But it was astute enough to defer to Air New Zealand, then buy 25 per cent of that company for a far more reasonable sum. Analysts point to a growing concern in government and industry circles in New Zealand that Air New Zealand may have over-committed itself in its acquisition of Ansett, and by doing so, cannot afford to service the equity, which could lead to both brands running down.

But those analysts would be wise to cast an eye north, where the extraordinary developments in aviation in this country are being watched by arguably one of Asia's most astute businesses.

Singapore Airlines won't play in this war, but you can guarantee they'll be ready to pounce on the survivors to boost their already-impressive portfolio.


Great!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:18 am

I've just read it through. I think it was a great article. I think in the end, it's going to be who will survive the impact of the newcomers and at this point in time, it's QF. I think Ansett could survive if they had more international routes. Unfortunately this isn't the case and therefore they're losing out miserable. The OZ market is hardly really much. It's the international routes that are important and QF has spotted that. If SIA can dump their A340s on AN, then maybe there could be a revival if AN can match the product of QF. I dunno th prodcut of AN so I'm assuming they're not as good as QF and not as good as SQ.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:30 am

excellent article from one of the better newspapers in Australia

Singapore_air: I don't think I will draw to much criticism when I say that the AN product is far superior to the QF product, even more now that they have revamped inflight catering, and the AN Int'l services is on a par if not better than SQ (tough call I know). However they have awards to show for it.

I think the problem is AirNZ who were simply narrow-minded and frankly selfish in stealing 50% of AN from SQ. I'm sure they are regretting it. AN sure is.

Pleeeaaase stay afloat AN...... To the rescue SQ!!!!!
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 3:34 am

Actually AN is far better than QF, but QF feed tourists and foreign business travellers onto domestic flights, which are a big part of the market. Also QF offers a one stop shop for corporate customers, which without the global network AN can't, pushing the Star Alliance so hard hasn't worked.

Having said that, I see problems for QF in the future. Using the 763's won't work, it piles on the cycles which will devistate their resale, increases the frequency of maintaince (which is more costly with bigger planes) and so on. I don't think they can ride the middle road while competition is so direct, AN when the 762's go I think will be better placed with the 180 seater they talk about, question is can NZ get the house in order, personally I doubt it.

I for one hope SQ steps in, the more I hear, the more I think NZ are in way over their head. I read a book today from 1994, saying SQ could never try and become the worlds major long haul airline (What ever that means?), if you take VS, SQ, AN and NZ I wouldn't be too quick to agree!
 
miami1
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 10:31 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:01 am

Having flown on both Ansett International and Qantas and having friends at both airlines I can honestly say Ansett has definately a very superior inflight product. I think that what holds the Qantas product together is its crew who work very hard to please constantly unhappy passengers, its certainly not their food or seat pitch or broken inflight entainment system that keeps pax coming back, I like the way the australian crews work they really do a good job. I hope all airlines in the australian market survive but looking at the experience we have had here in the states its hard to know whats around the corner, however I can see that Ansett unless given a cash injection through purchase by SQ and carefull international expansion will have a very hard time competing with a much bigger QF. I dont think QF dumping excess capacity on the domestic market will solve thier problems either!
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:11 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:10 am

I guess it is a case of hindsight being perfect eyesight.

If Air New Zealand had not blocked the sale of 50% of Ansett to Singapore Airlines, it is conceivable that Ansett would have been injected with immediate growth at a crucial point in time.

Air New Zealand's purchase of all of Ansett stifled that, brought nothing new to Ansett's value and the end losers are Ansett, Air New Zealand and to a certain extent - Singapore Airlines.

I hope that AN quickly (but systematically) plan a strategic direction in growing her international network and look to trans-Pacific flights as well as improve her coverage of Asia (and perhaps also coming through Asia to Europe).

 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:46 am

It is nice to see the good ole Singaporean ego in full effect.

Well if SQ had been allowed to buy AN, then Dr. Cheong would have saved the day and Ansett would be the biggest airline in the world by now. Big grin

Don't give SQ that much credit. AN had some major problems well before NZ bought them. Also NZ did not forecast that fuel would have doubled in less than 6 months. Timing is everything and this was timed badly.

Slow calculated growth is the best way forward. All airlines that try to overexpand end up losing big time. NZ is doing the right thing.

Funny thing about that article that was posted, as it is not possible to pull it off the Canberra Times website, and the tone of the last bolded paragraphs is totally different then the beginning ones. Sounds like an editorial rather than a factual article.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Tue Mar 06, 2001 4:56 pm

AirNZ and Ansett are both great airlines. I also agree that AirNZ should of let SQ buy Ansett. But in the next 1 year you will see some major improvements to Ansett and AirNZ at that.

They have not pulled out there tricks yet and you will soon see them. Qantas is going to be the loser here and not Ansett.

The meeting my sister and all of AirNZ staff had with Gary toomey a week ago were told what is going to happen.

Sorry i can not let out anything!! But you will be shocked to see what is going to Happen

Cheers
mikey

 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Wed Mar 07, 2001 1:21 am

Wpr8! How can you dobt that the article is not true and I edited it! I am shocked! Well not really. Drama king!

Anyway, if you don't believe me it's off FT.COM's FREE Global Archive.

Great. Great article. The best in a long time.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Wed Mar 07, 2001 2:13 am

Typical ANZ staff told all but Ansett staff still sitting in the wind waiting to be told what is going on this is just typical of Air New Zealand.
 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:08 am

Singapore_Air, I am not sure who you were calling the drama king, you or me. Frankly it doesn't matter. I used to get very upset about how pro-SQ you are but now I just laugh. It is so ridiculous it really doesn't matter.

SQ from a service perspective is quite good, but they have some other problems to deal with. One is their ego is always getting in the way. The have some of the lowest yields in the world since the have way too much capacity. They maybe making alot of money, but that is through controlling costs rather than through higher fares. They pay their employees in the head office crap.

The NZ dollar problem, coupled with oil prices, new compeition on OZ and a general downturn in the economies is making life very difficult for the ANZ Group. NZ was destined for mediocrity without AN and they made the right move for the long term. It may hurt now, but Ansett will prove a good acquisition.

Also check out this article.

ANZ restructuring leaves senior managers out in cold
Dateline: Tuesday March 06, 2001

Five senior managers have quit or plan to leave Air New Zealand under a comprehensive executive restructure

Executive GM-Commercial Allister Paterson, Air New Zealand International GM Grant Lilly and the head of Ansett International, Gary Kingshott, are on the departure list. The revamp was ordered by new Chief Executive Gary Toomey, who arrived at the airline group in January, to accommodate the integration with Ansett.
Paterson, a former Canadian Airlines executive, will remain with ANZ for a time to assist in bedding down the new structure. Lilly, Kingshott, CFO John Dell and GM-Operations Services Ian Diamond are leaving immediately.
ANZ has been reorganized into seven new divisions: Group Sales & Distribution; Customer Services; Group Strategy, Network & Marketing; Operations; Worldwide Services; Ventures, and Business Enhancement. Other units such as Finance, Human Resources and Organizational Change; Corporate, Government & International Affairs, and engineering unit ANNZES remain largely unchanged.

Looks like Mr. Toomey is going to put in his own people. Good luck ANZ
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Wed Mar 07, 2001 5:00 pm

AirNZ have all ready layed off about 1800 employees. You just did not hear about it in the News. My sister was lucky to stay. But they needed her as she is a Hard worker.

I also think it is Mean of AirNZ not to tell Ansett staff what is happening. But when this plan happens all of you guys saying that AirNZ will crumble to Qantas will be Stuck for words. One thing i can say though is that it involves SQ!!

Cheers
mikey
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Thu Mar 08, 2001 12:53 am

The drama king was me! Never mind as you say.

The article you quoted is intersting. I suppose this means that Air NZ are trying to combine divisions to save costs?

I do agree that SIA should pay their front line staff more. See? I'm not that pro-SIA am I? i do see problems with Singapore Airlines. God!

Anyway.

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 5:35 am

hahahahaha, well well well.
Looks like I got here just in time. You know, all this sabre ratteling and denial. Qantas is absolutely superiour to Ansett. Have you guys ever flown Ansetts Business/First!!!!What a joke! Qantas First Class on the other hand is absolutely fantastic, and i can't wait to see the new improvements come the new aircraft. There is also marketing campaigns here to buy Australian......Qantas, well, at least most of it is owned by Australians. And look, I don't get why you all absolutely hate Qantas. Theyre a damn good airline, far better suited for survival into the future than their Singaporean, New Zealand and fellow Australian (including domestic) counterparts. Why do i always find I'm talking like a child, maybe its reflective of the author of this post. I have better things to do than answer this.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 6:35 am

Well I didn't ask you to answer did I?!!!!!11


And how have you based that survivial factor on? Job losses? Falling profits. Give me a break. "I have better things to do than" to anwer your message
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 7:43 am

The man is a F/A for Qantas. Thanks for your unbiased opinion.

BTW, why don't you enlighten us on all the cutbacks QF has just announced within the senior/middle management ranks.

Sounds like you guys are doing a great job.

Long live the White Rat!
 
dalecary
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2000 10:28 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 8:00 am

Mikey,

give me a break. As if Toomey would tell all NZ staff of the grand plan for NZ/AN. These things are always boardroom secrets and while there may be som e rumors, until it is officially announced nobody really knows anything. Of course the grand plan must involve SQ. They are the only ones with money and aircraft. NZ spent all theirs on the AN purchase instead of doing the sensible thing and going 50/50 with SQ. AN and NZ are totally cash strapped and will rely immensely on big brother SQ to get them out of a hole and I expect that will come at a cost. Certainly SQ will want a bigger share of AN if they are going to pour enormous resources into an ailing carrier and they will want more power altogether. Back to Toomey telling all his plans for NZ/AN. It could only have been in general terms. At QF they knew the A380 was going to be ordered and some derivative of the A330. I can tell you the 744LR and A333 orders surprised a lot at QF. The A332 was by far the most desired derivative by those working at QF. They still don't know where these planes will be maintained. QF keeps their decisions very close to their chest, as do most airlines and businesses in general for that matter.
Anyway, how will we be shocked? A340s,777s and 744s to AN/NZ with the probable purchase or lease through SALE of A319/320/321? AN to expand it's International network to the USA, NRT, and SIN? NZ/AN to operate under a new banner? Or even the purchase/lease of some A380s by NZ to counter QF on Pacific services? Not one of these can be achieved without substantial financial support from SQ.
What is the time-frame for the Toomey grand-plan? Surely you can share that with us if everyone at NZ knows about it. And if they do it will leak very quickly and maybe some AN people might realise this master stroke.
What a joke,Mikey. Me thinks you know nothing at all!!!
 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:00 pm

Dalecary - right on the mark.

Mikey, although I admire your enthusiasm, you have indicated in your post that your are privy to some fairly commercially sensitive information (via your sister...) that you aren't prepared to share with us. If that is the case, please don't bother mentioning it at all. It doesn't help in any way at all.

As Dalecary has pointed out, AirNZ would not divulge such sensitive information to the rank and file if keeping it under wraps for now is critical to improving their commercial position. The chance of leaks is just too great. After all, your sister passed on this all-so-important information to you!

 
rmm
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 10:34 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:50 pm

Mickey,
Was removing the peanuts from all AN's flights part of the grand plan.
LOL

This article appeared in todays Australian

Kiwis nobble our nuts
By Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
09mar01

THE great trans-Tasman airline peanut heist has been unmasked: Air New Zealand
is responsible for nicking Ansett's nuts.

The coveted packets disappeared from Ansett Australia flights after a "realignment"
of in-flight products under its Kiwi owners in January. But Ansett denies it was a
case of Kiwi bean-counters going nuts.

Disappointed passengers requesting the snacks have been given an array of
excuses.

One flight attendant was overheard telling a NSW cricket team member on a
Sydney-Perth flight the nuts had been cracked because they could cause allergic
reactions.

A second passenger, however, was told the peanuts had been sacrificed to cut
costs.

An Ansett spokeswoman insisted yesterday costs were not an issue and said the
nuts were simply not part of "the new mix" after the corporate shuffle in January.

Airlines and snack manufacturers were unable to say how much the peanuts cost,
but most reckoned a few cents a packet.

The Ansett spokeswoman said the new in-flight service was introduced after
research with customers and flight crew. It provided more substantial servings, a
broader range of menu choices and meals in line with journey length.

But she admitted the airline had no exchange for the lost nuts.

"No, there aren't any straight substitutes for peanuts if that's what you're looking
for," she said.

The alternative for disgruntled peanut lovers is to switch to Qantas, which still
offers the snack.

"They can travel and crunch to their heart's content," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

Ade
 
Singapore 777
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat May 29, 1999 3:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 2:10 pm

So what is actually happening to Ansett? I thought they were a pretty fine airline with a good inflight product?

So in conclusion, is AirNZ being just too greedy for themselves to handle or is Qantas simply coming up with a better inflight product than them? I haven't flown on QF but want to try them one of these days.
 
rmm
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 10:34 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 3:07 pm

AN still have a good inflight product but years of mismanagement have taken
a huge hunk out of staff morale which is slowly eating away at this product.
ANZ being tight doesn't help either. Another example is to replace all linen
head rest towels with paper ones. These look shocking after 2 or 3 legs. I hope
ANZ don't get their way with this one.

Ade
 
Singapore 777
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat May 29, 1999 3:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 4:03 pm

But why is AirNZ degrading the level of the service? I mean like doing away with the peanuts, that's absolutely nuts!!! I mean how much can a packet of peanuts cost? Why is AirNZ having such a tight control of everything? And why isn't SQ doing something to reverse this?
 
rmm
Posts: 518
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 10:34 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 4:53 pm

I don't think ANZ have any choice but to cut back on services. They have no
money to support AN. I heard from a manager (AN) yesterday that our market
share has now dropped from 40% to 38%. He said they can't substain anything lower than 33%. It is my belief that this is when SQ will pounce and buy 50% of AN. SQ have a shrewd business sense and will get AN at an extremely good price.

Something else of interest too. At the moment there are 20 ANZ engineers
working in the Ansett hanger to cover staff shortages. Most agree that SQ will
move in a big way soon.

Ade
 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 5:40 pm

Singapore_Air,

Whilst the media can claim whatever they want, the fact of the matter is that AN still has 40% of the market.

What you will find is that the general domestic passenger movement in Australia has increased dramatically. There is room in this country for different carriers to operate, but given the size of our country, and the limited market, one current carrier must go.

What is my prediction? Virgin. I doubt that Virgin has the intimate and precise knowledge of the Australian market that Mr McGowans enterprise does. Branson may pump money into the business but you only have to look at Virgin Express to see the trouble that is about to brew. Impulse on the other hand has been marketing quite effectively, and has also stolen many a business customer from the big two.

We all know that AN's inflight service is legendary, particularly on their international routes that make SQ look like a third world carrier. NZ's buying of AN was not a good idea, AN needs the capital of SQ to make it truly competitive. I don't particularly like SQ service, call it a personal preferance but I have found at times it to be a little intolerant.

That's personal preferance though, AN will survive, QF will bring their services on par shortly. The problem with the Australian domestic pax is that the business people are loyal to their respective carriers (FF programs) however the new entrants have made a quick trip to Brissy or Melbourne from Sydney a cheaper and more vialble alternative to video conferencing.

In thought, expect to see one of the worlds best airlines QF to flourish this decade, and you can expect the same of AN as well, as soon as SQ get control. SQ management know that AN will be their only "room" for positive growth in air travel markets for the next decade.

(These opinions were formed after I asked my leading stock broker in Singapore to "speak" to some SQ high level execs.)

Wait and see.

Cheers,

mb
 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 09, 2001 7:36 pm

ANZ are to far behind the times and still have their heads in Sheep Dip. Ansett has gone down so far it is no longer funny and only one rason it is called Air New Zealand
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 1:40 am

A lot to read here!

Oh well, here goes

MX5_Boy. I'm sorry to hear that you have not had good experiences with Singapore Airlines. I will foward your comments in the near future.

Now. AN. Their service is "great". Oh really? THen what is makeing it's share of the market falling? IS it prices?

I think AN should concentrate more on their international routes. Their hardly known for them and most people don't even know they fly internationally. They better make good use of my Celestars.

ANZ: Hmmm. Profits seen to be skimming the bottom line for the next 6 months. Oh dear. SIA has a made a mistake?????????
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 5:05 am

QF747-sp: I think you posting shows why almost everybody here hates QF, attitude.

Remember Ansett International and Ansett Australia are two seperate companies (has that changed).

I believe the main reason AN doesn't do as well, apart from NZ being in over it's head (AN was screwed already, hence much smaller NZ could buy them), is the way Australia privitised Qantas and Australian. By merging the two they created an airline that served anywhere an Australian could want to go, with an almost brand new fleet of planes requiring very little investment. In other words, the government created an airline that would raise a lot of money when they sold it.

AN was put at a huge disadvantage by this, there's no way they could become a global airline, because of rights (they can't launch the routes in practise because all the allowed Australian capacity was already used by Qantas on many major routes and of course money, even if they could get rights it'd cost way too much money.) AN reacted by putting together a very strong alliance of airlines (long before anybody else thought of it), but Qantas with it's government given advantages, a one stop shop - single airline - global operation simply out gunned them. They were left short of cash (so much was pumped into their international expansions, most of which has been shut down now anyway) and fell victim to NZ, who've made things worse.

Point is QF isn't so clever, they were just lucky and AN was in trouble long before NZ came on the scene.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 5:19 am

I should probably say for those who don't know, for my above post to make sence, before deregulation and privatisation the industry looked like this:

Qantas: Government owned, was strictly limited to overseas routes.
Australian: Government owned, was strictly limited to domestic flying.
Ansett: Privately owned, was strictly limited to flying domestic.

Australian and Ansett were told what to charge, where and when to fly and with what size planes, they were little more than contractors.

I think the result of this was little knowledge of how to run a commercial business, they only had to worry about the operatinal aspects, putting fuel in the planes and seeing the food turned up (it was once always a hot meal too!). Hence Rob Eddingtons comments, good airline, bad business. Not a situation helped by Peter Ables (not a delegator I would think). QF was more worldly wise...
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 6:54 am

I laugh at most of the people posting in this topic as they will all be eating their Words soon when everything is revealed!! And Toomey did tell the AirNZ staff what was happeneing. Maybe not the lot, but heaps of what the Media donot know about and what YOUSE donot know about either!!!

hahahahahahahahaha, eat my words and when it happens i hope you choke on them!!

Cheers
mikey

PS Great posting Ryanair!!
 
OH-LGA
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 1999 1:42 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 7:41 am

Singapore_Air: Did you edit an article again? Last time you edited a SQ press release and put your own comments in their under the guise of a "Singapore Airlines UK Special Assistant". Needless to say, I will never be able to believe anything you ever post again  Angry
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 3:02 pm

Qantas is an exceptional airline. As is Ansett. only time will tell who wins this battle of the airlines (supposing that there will be a winner). But please, lets leave critisism of airlines as being strictly as productive. And why do I find that at the end of these threads do I find myself agreeing to disagree?

and Ryanair: That comment you made was very offencive. it was unnecessary and attacked me as a person. I deeply resent it.
 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 3:31 pm

Why is Air New Zealand staff so special that thye get told information but the Ansett staff are being left in the cold just typical of the new zealand style NOT VERY GOOD if was so hot why was the staff told in Auckland but no one else knows about it.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 5:18 pm

QF747-SP: Oh really! "Why do i always find I'm talking like a child, maybe its reflective of the author of this post." I found that quite offensive too.

OH-LGA: No I didn't edit this article. Although it's a brilliant one. Go to http://www.globalarchive.ft.com Search for Singapore Airlines and somewhere right down, you will find that article (Sorry but it has been about a week since it was published so it will be down there somewhere).
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 6:23 pm

Because most of the AirNZ staff are based in Auckland.

I think it is also sad that they donot tell Ansett staff. But donot go dissing Kiwis over this. Remember Gary Toomey is and Australian!! (I think)

Cheers
mikey
 
Air Taiwan
Posts: 1498
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 3:06 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Sat Mar 10, 2001 9:15 pm

I don't know hey, I mean, AN is such a good airline, and it's really really sad to see them in this situation now... I just hope SQ comes in before NZ stuff AN up (well, they already did but you know, before they REALLY stuff up...). And yes I agree that AN should get more (preferably heaps) international routes especially to Japan, US and most definitely Europe to compete with QF. I'm sure servicewise they can beat QF hands down.
Maybe NZ should consider doing NZ-S America as there are no STAR carriers doing this route...
And AN should consider doing AUS-S Africa as there are no Star carriers on this route either... (but is there so many passengers for the JNB route??
Anyways, I think NZ is a good airline but is has gained itself nothing but unpopularity on the merging with AN.... from the day they announced to block SQ buying the other half of AN...
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:30 pm

I do agree with you people that AirNZ committed itself way to much and should of let SQ take the other half.

Cheers
mikey
 
QantasAirways
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:55 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:45 pm

I think that Air New Zealand isn't giving Ansett a chance in this market. Nobody take this offensive but Air New Zealand has showed real self-centred type governning in this situation.
And with all the employees with Air NZ being informed, I think that it will leak out pretty soon if one of the employees has already told her brother.

I don't want this to be attacked, but: If Air New Zealand doesn't do something soon, Ansett will be in big trouble.

Regards
QantasAirways
Spirit of Australia
 
MEA
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2001 8:30 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Thu Mar 15, 2001 9:28 pm

I think Ansett has a few strategic problems. They need to focus on particular market segments & ensure their marketing department is doing the right job.

I haven't noticed a decent Ansett advertisement directed to the business market in years.

The reason Ansett maybe losing market share is the fact that it is so hard to book a flight over the internet if you do not have a profile. Before you are allowed to book a flight you have to create a profile. Most people can't be bothered doing this & they just want to find a flight & pay for it.

The "Go your own way" slogan needs to go, what does it mean? Where are we going? Who is going their own way?

Why isn't Ansett marketing the fact that they have PTVs on their B744 international flight?

If they can get the small things right, maybe just maybe Ansett will one again be "one of the world's great airlines"

 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Thu Mar 15, 2001 11:49 pm

?????

The reason they are losing market share is b/c of a slogan? Right.

Almost every airline website I have been on requires that you fill out a profile before ticketing. Fill it out once and you never have to do it again. That's not it.

It is funny that almost every Aussie on this Board resents the fact that AN is owned by a Kiwi company. Hate to break it to you, but Ansett was in big trouble before ANZ bought them.

 
F27
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 16, 2001 2:25 am

Might have been in trouble but were not BENT over a Barrel with a pair of velcro gloves and a bit af wool pulled over the eyes. WHY is it that most kiwis do not like to hear the truth about ANZ. Yes most Aussies are not happy about this take over how would you feel if all of a sudden ANZ was being Screwed big time and had the wool pulled out from under you. The NZ government does not have the guts to allow SQ to have more than 25% why because they are scared that it will spell the end of ANZ. it is about time that kiwis caught up with the times and stoped living in a world full of dreams you want to play big time you have the cold hard CASH to be able to play instead of SQ having to pay for the times when ANZ cannot pay news corp
 
Guest

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:15 am

Your above post is exactly what I am talking about.

ANZ bought AN. It is there company and they can do what they want. Get over it. It is called business.

FYI, most companies buy companies with debt not cash. If you think SQ has the ability to turn AN around with just injecting cash, then you are sorely mistaken.
 
jupiter2
Posts: 959
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 16, 2001 8:23 am

Let me say that the real culprit here is not ANZ although they could be doing a better job, it is the fact that the Australian government lets not one but two airlines based in Australia be totally foreigned owned, even if Australia and N.Z are viewed basically as one market.
You may be surprised but Australians are a pretty patriotic bunch and if it comes down to a foreign product or a local product of similar quality they will choose the local. Personally I would choose in order Qantas, Impulse, Ansett, Virgin Blue. My main concern with Ansett is the people who work there and the security of their jobs, lets face it do the powers that be really care if a few thousand jobs at Ansett go ???
Sorry to bring politics into it but it is a fact.
Mr F27 read your profile,interesting did ANZ bone you ??? or do you really just hate N.Z, most Australians don't however.
 
MEA
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2001 8:30 pm

RE: QF And Ansett Australia In War: Both Losing

Fri Mar 16, 2001 3:34 pm

Wpr8e,

You have obviously misread my comments? At what stage was I saying that Air NZ's purchase of AN was a bad thing?

The point of my comment was that Ansett has no strategic direction. A companies profits are not based on their slogan. They are based on a companies perception to it's customer's and the ability to have the correct cost base & structure.

Have you ever booked a flight on the AN or QF websites? When you do, tell me which one you prefer.

Air NZ should have ensured they had enough cash reserves prior to their purchase of AN. It was obvious that prior to the purchase AN was in need of a capital injection.


Air NZ saw AN as a good investment, their only problem is they don't have enough money to see this investment grow & prosper.

One more thing, do Air NZ employ analysts, I thought they would have hedged their fuel prices against the rise in prices to cushion the blow. If QF can do it why can't they?

Sorry, I forgot that most of them have probably moved to Australia  Acting devilish