sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 4:29 pm

Sunday morning a Swiss newspaper wrote that Swissair is probably going to have a loss of 1,61 Billion Euro this year, not only due to the losses at Sabena and the French companies, but mainly because of operational losses at Swissair itself. The whole board of the company, except for one person, will quit within this and a year. A new strategy is needed, probably in cooperation with AA or BA. It is believed that one of those would take a minority stake in SR, though some fear for a hostile take over now that the market value of SR on the stock exchange market has decreased so much.
For Sabena, it is very unlikely that SAir will take an 85% majority stake, rising from the current 49,5% as they do not have the money and operational space for it. Swissair had indicated several times before that thye might drop Sabena. Current head of Sabena, Christoph Müller had a meeting with the unions yesterday in which he announced that in the worst case, which is SAir leaving Sabena and no partner is found to replace SAir, Sabena will have to cut 4000 jobs or 1 on 3 jobs. It is at this moment that the BElgian government, 50,5% stake holder in Sabena, has to take its responsibility.
sndp
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 7:53 pm

The worst case is that both companies will be liquidated. Sabena has consistently been a major lossmaker and it has so much 'baggage' that I cannot see any viable future for it. The Belgian government will simply have to swallow its pride and close it down.

Remember, under EU law, governments can no longer subsidise their airlines.
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2000 10:39 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 8:51 pm

I agree, but tell me: what happens in Belgium if Sabena goes down (which would take Virgin Express and probably Citybird with it)? Other than Ryanair rubbing its hands gleeflully?

Would another airline take it over (BA, LH, AF or similar), cut loss making routes, and keep the name Sabena? Or would the name disappear?

It's just I can't see the airline just totally disappearing: it would create a huge void smack bang in the middle of Europe. No enterprising airline (such as BA, LH or AF) would let that happen.

Then there are the lucrative African routes (mmm, AF would be interested...)

But then you have the question of competition as any such takeover would inevitably raise issues (maybe except AF which barely even flies to Belgium - all Paris customers are put on the train).

The more I think, it's an opportunity for AF, but I express my personal opinion. It would be good for Skyteam too to build up it's network and weight in Europe. Anyone else have anything to say on the matter?????

As for Swissair/Crossair, I think they'll stay after selling off the 3 French airlines and Sabena. And then they'll probably join Oneworld. The other option is a merger with BA which has already been mooted by the press.
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 9:01 pm

I would not panic so fast.
AA for example has shown more interest in SN than in SR. There is clear proof that if AA gets a choice it will start a cooperation with SN first and thereafter, if it is still needed, they would allow the swiss too participate.
You can not blame them, S-AIR made the biggest loss ever, only due to managment mistakes. I for one would not invest any money anymore in them.
we all tought SN was in bad shape but S-AIR is sinking even faster.That will teach them...They tought they could set the rules and play with the big boys...
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 9:11 pm

A couple of thoughts...

1)I do not see the swiss enetering a major alliance because:
*they have nothing left to offer.No money, no expensive slots, no airport and for sure no managers...
*no way that BA will let the swiss entering in there alliance. they know that the swiss wants to play the big boss and that will not work!

2)It is true that it is time that the Belgian government takes its responsabilities. And it seems they finally are doing that a little bit: no ratification of bilatteral and european transport agreements...
By the way, if the swiss wants to cancel their agreements with SN they have to pay so much money braking their contact agreements that SN is saved
anyway...
3)No more government aid is allowed?!?! AF only is profitable thanks to the favourable regime they can operate under and thanks to money comming from the state, IBERIA is still state owned and keeps on flying thanks to this support, same thing for olympic, Allitalia,...

Wke up boys an girls!!!!!!!!!!
 
sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 9:36 pm

I agree with the fact that the Swiss management has blaimed Sabena and its employees, both on top level and everything there under, fot the high losses. Now we can see that it is actually the Swiss management which has made a big mistake and see Swissair is in an even worse case than SN. So, please SAIR, do not blame the Belgians and certainly not our employees. We have like you to work with and we still want to do so but only if you have some respect for this airline. Because with a good management, Sabena can grow to a profitable carrier, maybe as part on an alliance. Brussels has space to grow, Sabena has improved their service to high standards, certainly on long range business class, so Sabena has a future, with or without SAir.
sndp
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:31 pm

airbuspilot:
What does Sabena have to offer to AA?? More than SR. Surely not.

Tom
 
Saint-Exupery
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:37 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:38 pm

I think Swissair would perfectly fit into a major alliance because it's still a high-quality airline (compared with Air France, Alitalia or Iberia) and it's name has still a good reputation.
The same for Crossair which is among the best europeen regional airlines.
So if Sairgroup can get rid of his french subsidarys and the new management does well, the future is bright.
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Avion

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:40 pm

I think your analysis is not right avion.
I think because SABENA is weaker there are more interesting than swissair for AA.
ciao
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Avion

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:44 pm

I think your analysis is not right avion.
I think because SABENA is weaker there are more interesting than swissair for AA.
ciao
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Avion

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:46 pm

I think your analysis is not right avion.
I think because SABENA is weaker there are more interesting than swissair for AA.
ciao
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE:avion

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:51 pm

I think your analisys is not right.
I think becaus SABENA is weaker there are more interesting than swissair for AA.
ciao
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:55 pm

Avion i think your analisys is not right.
I think becaus SABENA is weaker there are more interesting than swissair for AA;
ciao
 
Saint-Exupery
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:37 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:58 pm

Avion, the question is, what has SN and SR to offer that could be interesting for AA ?
SN has a great african&european network an some north american destinations.
That's what is interesting for AA. With SR, they would get more things than they need.
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:24 am

Hello there!

Well it seems that some of you don't know about the facts at all. It's not true that the losses are mainly caused by Swissair itself. Fact is, that Sabena and the french affiliates are causing all the troubles. Of course the management of SAir Group is liable for the bad contacts they had (Sair Group pays the big part of the losses...), but it always takes two for such an event...
As for AA, I think they are more than happy with their partnership with Swissair. At least they have more benefits than with their "Big" Partner BA yet (anti-trust immunity ...) so I don't think that swissair is such a bad partner for them!
 
Saint-Exupery
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:37 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:41 am

Hello MD-11 forever
I know that most of the losses are made by Sabena and the french affiliates (some people are saying Swissair -180 mio SFr., Balair -30 mio SFr. Crossair -25 mio SFr. , frenchies -900 mio SFr., LTU
-360 mio SFr., Sabena -320 mio SFr. and Volare Group (Italy) -120 mio. SFr.)
Sairgroup with Swissair, Crossair and Balair could easy make money because the other Sairgroup companys like SRTechnic and SRRelations made tons of money.
I totally agree with you that SR is the better partner for AA. But if it get beyond, like a take-over, Sabena would be much cheaper and would exactly meet their needs.
Cheers
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:48 am

I'm agree whit you saint ex.
ciao
 
SR3496
Posts: 774
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 8:21 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:52 am

Sabena's hub Brussels is one of the only European airports which has still a LOT of expansions possibilties.

But anyway, SR has the better network in Europe, North Afirca, the Near and Middle East. So Swissair is still a very interesting airline for AA.
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:04 am

What has SN to offer to AA:

*A Hub which is ideal for all trans atlantic flights ,which is not saturated and has even possibilities for expansion.
*An African network which is one of the best in the world.
*A european network that can serve perfectly as a feeder for the AA longhaul network.
*A longhaul network which poses no threath to the AA network.Probably SN would loose the longhaul sector but will grow in European activity.
*SN is much cheaper to buy than the S-AIR group or Swissair.
*AA and SN have been working together for a long time. in fact 15 years ago there where allready talks going on about a cooperation.
*The Belgian government always has had a special relationship with the American government. Something that can not been said of the Swiss.
*SN is willing to be the underdog in a cooperation.AA would never accept to join in an alliance where somebody else has the rights to make decisions.I do not think the swiss are willing to be ruled over!

And by the way, SWISSAIR is a high quality airline but it does not offer more quality that SN,Lufthansa,KLM or any other major carrier!!!But off course the (German talking) SWISS think that they have the only HQ airline in the world. If they they keep on thinking like that
they will go bancrupt....TITANIC was beeing said to be unsincable also!!!!!Open your eyes guys, WWII is over!
 
SR3496
Posts: 774
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 8:21 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:21 am

Airbuspilot:
Thanx for that  Yeah sure ...we will think about your stupid statements about the "German speaking Swiss".

But anywayz, I don't want to start a war with you...any discussion with you seems to be senseless.
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:38 am

Try me if you dare.
I presonally had one of you in the cockpit.
it was a copilot who thought he could come on board and tell us what to do.It did not last for long!!!!

I am always willing to argue with you but please bring on some serious statements. this is nothing personal you know, although the swiss seems to think this is!

Your reply is exactly what I wanted to say, you think you are the best in the world. Well now is your opportunity to prove it!
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:41 am

Question: are you a student at SR? because you certainly do not talk like an aviation professional!
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:43 am

Dear friends,
Today Mr Mueller said it would be possible that Sair and Sabena would divorce. This will cost a few thousands jobs within Sabena.
Why would AA, BA or LH be interested in Sabena ?
1.Brussels is very, very well located for an airline to start a second hub.In Europe only one airline (LH) out of the 13 has 2 hubs. Most American airlines have 3-4 hubs. Hub characteristics of BRU (The good ones) are geography and efficiency ( The bad ones) low local traffic base. But lots of expansion still possible.
2. Zurich is saturated, no expansion possible due to ecological restrictions and problems with the overflight of the German airspace for the app. into Zurich. Another big problem for the Swiss is the fact they're not in the EU.
3. Sabena is not in a position to have high demands, has a good Eu and Afr network. Sair (like KLM) wants to stay in charge while only BA,LH and AF are big and strong enough to survive. Just like American, Delta and United in the States.
4. Talks already started.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:56 am

In fact no airline wants to burn its hands on Sabena. I doubt that any airline would be willing to buy the SR stake. If that would be the case it would already be sold.

Tom
 
SR3496
Posts: 774
Joined: Sat May 06, 2000 8:21 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 2:00 am

Hey Airbuspilot:
1. No, I'm not in the airline biz, your absolutely right. But I do sit in airplanes quite frequently (I mean of a normal student in CH quite a lot).
2. I know that Swissair has given much of their qualitly in the past years - SN has improved the quality. I think that the commercial I read shortly "www.most-improved-airline.com" is correct. Really, SN is equal in quality with KLM, LH or SR. In Y they are really almost the same.
3. Maybe I'm stupid, but "...although the swiss seems to think this is" is not really a intelligent statement. How many Swiss people do you know? And you throw all of them into one pot. Seems to be a little bit unfair.
4. For the AA partnership: I stated before that BRU is a very interesting airport in Europe.
5. I don't want to start a war with you, I stated this before. So I'll stop here.
6. I'm sorry. You could be right.........I overreacted. Maybe because I'm really sad what is happening to SR right now.
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 3:22 am

Dear Avion,
I can assure you a lot of airlines would like to take over SN but not the 49.5%. If they get more than 50% they can restructure as it pleases them. Just keep what you need. Sair will have to negociate to get into an alliance, LH, BA or AA have all they need they just want Brussels. Look the difficulties KLM has to find a partner ( they're too big to be small ).
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 3:38 am

I tell you SAir wants to get rid of SN as soon as possible. For LH or BA more than 50% would not be a problem as the whole airline is up for sale.

Nobody wants to buy SN!!!

Tom
 
TriStar
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 9:03 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 3:55 am

I'm glad there are people willing to spread their intelligence and deep aviation business insight with the rest of us.

Boy, some people are really full of themselves.

Have a nice day, anyway,

TriStar.
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 5:41 am

The whole SAir Group is amazing. Look at the numbers posted by Saint-Exupery - not one of their airline companies made a cent; all made a cent in profits; all made huge losses.

Now, what about the profits of SAir Technics, Jetlease, Atraxis etc? And where were their incomes sourced from?

In an earlier thread, I pointed out that the majority shareholders of Sabena (the Belgian government) were being defrauded by SAir over their excessive charges for aircraft leases, maintenance, software systems etc.

Now, perhaps the truth can be known!
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 5:47 am

Ceilidh:

SR, SN, the french Airlines do only represent a small percentage of the customer base of GateGourmet, Flightlease, SR Technics and so on. Sabena and the French Airlines do not even use SR technics.

Tom
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 5:57 am

Hi Tom Avion,
Same problem as SR 3496, what do you really know about aviation? Ever been in a cockpit,I mean flying.Or have you been watching Airport at TV? I don't think you have to tell me anything.
 
gaut
Posts: 436
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 10:57 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:12 am

If SR sells SN does it mean that Swissair loses the right to flight within EU?
«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:54 am

Hi again Tomavion,
Do you know what an IFF is? If you find out get the correct # . then we'll see what you really know/not know. Hope to see you soon, or strangle parrot.
nite nite
 
Saint-Exupery
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 10:37 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:58 am

Gaut
At the moment SR has no general right to flight within EU. But if it eventually goes alive, the bilateral contracts between EU and Switzerland will allow SR to flight to where they want (less or more) within EU. I don't know exactly which rights they got by this contract. But SN will loose some of the importance it had in the past for SR. Otherwise Moritz Suter ( I know, he isn't in charge anymore) wouldn't have wanted to drop SN as soon as possible.
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 7:17 am

This could take 3 to 5 more years.
See you in 5 y
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 7:46 am

Well IFF is Identification Friend or Foe.

Tom
 
myself
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:04 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 8:03 am

Dear Avion,
according to me you are one of the moderators on the Yahoo Groups Swissair-forum.
But even if you aren't I am convinced that your place is not on this forum :
You are prejudiced and have a clearly subjective opinion in this matter.
Your remarks are far for constructive and show you are lacking respect for you discussion partners.

The most stupid thing SAir could do right now is getting rid of Sabena, as this would mean the immediate closing down of AMP, generating an extra cost of 600 million CHF ( verified and confirmed information ). And at this very moment I don't really think SAir can afford this extra cost. In this view I would like to agree with "Airbuspilot" on what he said about how little attractive SR would become.
As much as Sabena is for the Belgians, Swissair is a national pride of the Swiss, but blaming all that's not swiss for the results of arrogant over-confidence and poor assesment of the rapidly changing airline over here at Zurich is not a very healthy attitude.
It would be far more interesting for the general level of this forum and for readers if you came up with some constructive remarks. Let's start with one :
In order to improve the catastrophic operations at Zurich ( punctuality 30% ), it would help if several Long Haul flights were transferred back to BRU ( not at max capacity yet and punctuality well above 75% ).


greetings to you all
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 8:05 am

Well well tomavion,

you do have some Buck Danny albums!!!

why dont you tell us what you do in aviation? I BET IT IS NOT MUCH SO PLEASE KEEP IT FOR YOURSELF!

option nr 2: go to the nearest store and buy a flight intl.Then at least you will know something about airline businness!

Concerning the transport agreements between Switzerland and the E.U. Do not forget that all the members of the E.U. have to sign the agreement. So if SR drops SABENA:
1°they have to pay billions because they have signed long term commitments
2°they can forget that Belgium signs the agreements and bye bye big agreement.

It is widely known that the whole board of SR directors is not worth anything except C.Muller. Why is it do you think that they are all resigning now!!!!After 40 days Suter was allready to tired to continue...Brugissers strategy have been proven to be too big, stupid and greedy...

To SR3496: I do know some Swiss personally and i have to say you are right, I should not say bad things of all of them. It is only my experience that a lot of the SR pilots are very arrogant. Often we share the same hotels and often they do not even botter to say hello.You can feel that they think they are better than the rest.
But once again, I dont think all the swiss are like that, not at all. When I make such statements it is regarding some of their pilots....

Nice nite y'all
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 8:14 am

Hey,

I am the Owner of the Swissair Yahoo Group. I certainly feel that Sabena could be a great advantage to Swissair. I really don't want to repeat what everyone else has said but I certainly feel SN is a great airline, even as good as Swissair itself! I definitely don't think Swissair should get rid of Sabena. SN could be a great asset in the longer term if they sort out their financial situation.

I also feel that the Swiss are wrong in blaming SN for the financial condition of the Qualiflyer Group. SN may be a factor but they are not the cause.

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan

I for one love Sabena and BRU Airport.
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 8:19 am

Thank you Teahan. There should be more users like you on this forum.

Avion, please take example!!!

We had an opportunity with both carriers working together .Maybe not everything is lost....
 
airbuspilot
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 8:57 pm

hh
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Wed Mar 14, 2001 9:41 pm

Good Tomavion, An IFF is used to recognise your friends, it's a military transponder.And "strangle parrot" means stop squawking!
 
MD-11 forever
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:15 am

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Thu Mar 15, 2001 12:45 am

Hello Ceilidh

I'm a bit late to reply you, but I want to clarify one thing, SR Technics is not charging astronomic prices to any customer, if this would be a fact, they are free to look for a better, maybe cheaper maintenance partner, right? There's no reason for SAir to push their affiliates into debts with too high service charges, coz' finally it's SAir who has to pay the bill! So I think this is an obvious nonsense....

Just to prevent annoying discussions about knowledge, I'm an engineer working for SR Technics.......

Tom
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:46 am

Before, this becomes a SN-SR fight and who will team up with AA I want to give my worst-case scenario (and I hope it won't happen).


SAirGroup may try to force all airlines (and SN in particular) into bankruptcy.They'll only loose some of their reputation as it isn't a nice thing to do (its in my vioew unethical). However, they wouldn't have any problems with the Belgian or any other government (no airline = no agreement) and they already own the aircraft (in SN's case) which they can lease to somebody else. Moreover, as a possible creditor, they can even try to drain the airlines out. For the employees this is the worst case scenario unless they can claim some sort of compensation (which in a worst case scenario they can't).

Will this happen? I don't think so. However, it's a fact that a) SAIrGroup is under a big pressure from its shareholders to do something and b) SN has a very bad reputation in the financial world (almost all airline analyst agree that SAIrGroup must get rid of SN)

A sale of some stakes (SN in particular) may be difficult to accomplish. At this moment, SN's financial record is far from good (from 1954 only a couple of profitable years) and any buyer has a lot of explaining to do to its shareholders (moreover if the buyer is an American company).

The Volare Group is probably safe as already a Dutch newspaper reported that KLM is interested (or should be interested) in Air Europe Italy (and if they also buy Air Europa they can change the name so that I can't mix up the Spanish and the Italian airline).

If SAirGroup wants to sell its stake in SAA they can probably go to LH or BA (LH most likely).

LTU is a problem but there's probably a touroperator interested or the present majority shareholder takes it all.

Remains Swissair, Crossair and Balair and the profitable parts of SAirGroup. These will probably remain where they are now.

regards
Laurens Janssen

Just to be clear. I hope that the above scenario will not happen!
 
myself
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:04 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:40 pm

On March 13th, the decision was taken to keep AMP operational, meaning the merger of SN-SR will be continued (for now).
This means that the new strategy of the SAir group will most probably focus on a BRU-ZRH hubs operation with SR-SN-Crossair on the field.
 
sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Thu Mar 15, 2001 7:08 pm

Myself, what is the source for your info concerning the fact that AMP will keep operating?
sndp
 
myself
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:04 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Thu Mar 15, 2001 7:25 pm

As you ask what my source is, I gather you have also understood that AMP is the spine of SN-SR-Crossair. It's the only guarantee BOTH companies have to survive in the near future (1-2 years). But there's still a lot more to be done to keep alive on mid- and longterm.
Guess SN and SR are stuck with each other, whether they want it or not. It's up to the both of them to make the best out of it and start working on a base of mutual respect and equality.

CU
 
myself
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 10:04 pm

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Fri Mar 16, 2001 9:36 am

More :
two different "sources" (quite reliable ones) state that Müller is moving his office to Zurich, if you all know what I mean.

Still : No Panic !
 
Guest

RE: Sabena / Swissair Worst Case Scenario

Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:31 pm

Hi Myself,
The 26th of march SSP-VPOD have a meeting at Genève, Zurich and Bâle. They want garanties from the management that there will be no loss of employement, no loss of salary, no selling of SN and they want to be represented in the board. If their demands are not accepted there could follow a strike whithin the 2 hours.
Mr R Pagani (SSP-VPOD) wants to lodge a complaint against the top executive management and supervisory board. Mr Pagani speaks about losses of 4-5 billions SF and wants to attack the board for mismanagement ( ex.consultants like McKenzie were paid 1 billions SF ).
I think they will try to restructure the the network around Swissair-Crossair-Sabena taking the advantage of the 2 hubs ZUR & BRU and make an entry in a big alliance. I think this time they would not refuse an offer like the president of AF did when Skyteam was created.
Anyway we will have to wait till the 2nd of avril to see .
 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE:IFF/7000

Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:51 pm

Hi IFF/7000 i'm agree with you.
But like you said we have to wait.
ciao

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Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos