englandair
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Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:32 am

Taken from the BBC News website

Wales's only scheduled airline is investigating the possibility of setting up a regular air link between Cardiff and New York.
The fledgling airline Air Wales was set up last year and currently operates between Cardiff and Cork.

It is now preparing to expand its services next month with twice-daily flights to Manchester.

But it has ambitions to begin a transatlantic service from Wales to New York's Newark International Airport.

"Nothing will do more for Wales than having its own national airline showing the flag for Wales in different countries."
Captain John Howard Evans


Air Wales has taken on the mantle of the old Cambrian Airways, whose Viscount aircraft used to fly from Cardiff to places like Jersey and Malaga back in the 1960s.

Cambrian disappeared when it merged into British Airways three decades ago and since then Wales has been without a national airline.

Managing director of Air Wales, Captain John Howard Evans, has plans to change that.

He told BBC Wales they were looking at the "seriously investigating" the possibility of a transatlantic link.

"Nothing will do more for Wales than having its own national airline, showing the flag for Wales in different countries," he said.

Plans under consideration also include flights to other regional airports around the UK - including Belfast and Luton.

Direct flights are to start to Manchester


The company has already carried more than 12,000 passengers on its Cardiff to Cork service since last October.

Next month it takes deliveries of two more 19-seater planes.

Captain Evans also said he believed there was potential for a daily service between Haverfordwest and London's Stansted Airport.

Pembrokeshire Council is already looking at the possibility of upgrading Withybush Airport at Haverfordwest, which would be necessary for this kind of commercial flight.

The owners of Caernarfon Airport in north Wales are also looking at the options - something which might open up the possibility of establishing a pan-Wales air service.
-----------------------

Your thoughts?

 
englandair
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:14 am

By the way, does anyone know the web address for Air Wales?

Cheers.
 
sevenair
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:30 am

Who on earth wants to go to Wales from America???
 
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boeingrulz
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:32 am

Interesting topic. I tried to search for air Wales on the internet and have come up empty for now. Frankly I had never heard of Air Wales but I am interested in Wales as some of my ancestors came from there, specifically Caernarfon. What planes does the airline fly? Is Cork its only destination?

Carolyn
 
EGGD
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:32 am

I would seen as you can only go to Toronto from Bristol.

EGGD
 
Trvlr
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:41 am

Especially in the summer season when tourism is at its highest, I bet this could work with an ETOPS 737NG or A320...

Aaron G.
 
gkirk
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 3:46 am

Thats the funniest thing Ive ever heard!! I believe they dont even own the Do228 that they operate so how on Earth would they afford to buy a large jet. I believe also leasing an a/c costs a lot too so that idea is out.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
englandair
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:18 am

I thought it was pretty funny too and I think it may be slightly ambitious!
However, I'm sure they know what they're doing, and I wish them the best of luck.

I wonder if the Air Wales website has got any info on it....?!
 
englandair
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:39 am

 
deltairlines
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 7:00 am

If their saying EWR, they might be thinking of codesharing with CO and CO flying a 757 on that route. Could work.

Jeff
 
cedarjet
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 9:57 am

Wales is a pretty important country in the United Kingdom and has a lot of big businesses based there, including GE's European base at Cardiff airport. My only question is why there hasn't been a scheduled link before. It would make a lot of commercial sense. If it isn't Air Wales, someone else will do it before long. If Glasgow has trans Atlantic service then Cardiff will too. CO are serious about EWR-Edinburgh and Cardiff is a more important business destination (higher yield) than EDI.

Anyone know the population of Wales? It's got to be 4 million or more.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
gkirk
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 4:02 pm

The population of Wales is less than 3 million I believe.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
LBA
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:13 pm

Cardiff doesn't just serve Wales does it? Think about the population in Herefordshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire, Devon, Cornwall who currently have to go to BHX, LGW or LHR for tranatlantic flights. The only issue with Cardiff is it is badly located and it's transport links are attrocious.
 
shankly
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 5:47 pm

I am sure that a long thin route could probably be justified if it wasn't for the fact pointed out by LBA. It is probably just as easy to get to Manchester, Birmingham or even Heathrow, than Cardiff from certain parts of the country. Perhaps they should think of Bristol.

Assume that Air Wales will be the launch customer for the NGDo228ER
L1011 - P F M
 
Catflap
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:14 pm

Cardiff is one of the fastest growing and most prosperous cities in the UK. the catchment area for Cardiff Airport is 7 million people! Cardiff Airport is expanding rapidly. There are advanced plans to improve the road link via a connection to the M4 West of Cardiff. There are also less advanced plans to construct a new international airport in the Severn estuary near Newport. Bristol is opposing these plans vigorously, for obvious reasons. Part of the attraction with Cardiff is that there are few environmental problems. Planes take-off over open fields and then pass over the cliffs and out across the Bristol Channel. Another big advantage with Cardiff Airport is that RAF St. Athan is right next door. This will close down in the next few years providing massive scope for 'brownfield' expansion. Jumbos already use Cardiff as BA has a huge maintenance facility there.
 
airmale
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:27 pm

Why is Wales neglected, wonder if the likes of PIA and Air India can fly there Confused
.....up there with the best!
 
LBA
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:37 pm

Jumbos do use Cardiff, but they are empty. I think the runway is a little short for a fully loaded 747 by about 3,000 ft.
 
Scotty
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 pm

Hey Sevenair

Who the hell would want to go to Newcastle from America? Or Canada?

Yet they do. Think about it. So why not Wales?

More power to Air Wales. Why should everyone in the UK be forced to travel to the US and Canada via London. Continental are likely to start operations form EDI to EWR and they have been profitable ex GLA since they started. So a service to CWL might just work.
 
gkirk
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 9:30 pm

I do however see a logic in Air Wales code-sharing with CO on a new route to EWR. As I understand it Air Wales currently only has a class B AOC or something. I think that route could work but I think for those living in SW Englad getting to LHR,BHX is much easier than CWL so it would have to rely on Welsh travellers to the USA. It would also be great for an EDI-EWR service to start as that would probably be good.
BTW I have heard rumors that Air Wales were thinking about operating to NCL, is this true? Currently BRAL operates this route 1 x daily with J41.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
mls515
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Thu Mar 15, 2001 10:27 pm

Since I'm in Swansea, I've looked at the possibility of using CWL but it is really not that convienient to get to. Train to Cardiff Central, then a bus, backtracking a bit. There needs to be a rail link.

In one of the recent airplane magazines I bought, there is an article about CWL that was interesting. It has a lot of info.

http://www.airwales.co.uk/ is another URL.

mls515
 
g-beak
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 4:59 am

Well said Scotty. If this thread was about a route from Heathrow/Gatwick/Luton/Stansted/Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool etc we wouldn't be having this discussion at all. No one would question it, it would be accepted as a done deal and perfectly sensible decision but if anything concerns Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff or Belfast we have to justify our right to travel from our local area.
 
Scotty
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:39 am

Agreed. I know a guy who was flying from GLA to JFK, got on a shuttle at about 6am, hung around LHR for a few hours, got on his expensive BA flight and then seven hours after he left his house, he was looking at it again - from 37,000ft. Going direct, he could have been almost in New York. What a waste of time and money.

Local airports make sense. Go Continental!!
 
g-beak
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:03 am

Exactly. We keep hearing how LHR is too busy, not enough space, delays, too much noise, locals don't want T5 etc, etc, etc. If people didn't didn't have to go anywhere near London (Luton and Stansted included) that would go some way to easing the situation but instead of being ambitious enough to launch totally new routes we just get even more flights to and from the same destinations.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:37 am

London does need some regionalization, kind of like here in Boston. Continental is starting EWR-STN service later this month, but LTN I think will be a more low-fare airport, since it is only 30-45 minutes outside of LHR if I recall correctly. However, I feel that a new runway and T5 at LHR both need to be built, as LHR is England's premier port of entry and it is one of the major crossroads of the world.

Jeff
 
EGGD
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:50 am

If this thread was about a route from Heathrow/Gatwick/Luton/Stansted/Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool

I beleive Bristol Airport is bigger than Liverpool, HOW DARE YOU Big grin

EGGD
 
g-beak
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 7:56 am

It's not London that needs regionalised - its the rest of the UK. LHR might be the premier port of entry to England but I don't live in England and if I want to go to one foreign country I don't see why I have to travel through another one to get there.
 
Scotty
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 8:14 am

Spot on. Did you know that since easyJet started operating EDI-AMS in february, there has been a 72% increase in overall traffic on the sector. Just watch Glasgow-Brussels do the same when Ryanair start ex PIK

I predict that soon, the budget carriers on both sides of the Atlantic will start to extend their principles to Transatlantic routes and thats when airports in Scotland, Wales, Northern England and Ireland (and secondary airports in USA and Canada) will see a mega expansion of services. Ryanair or easyJet on long haul? I hope so.

With the right aircraft and the right price, the old "big carrier" attitude of yield is king becomes so much bunkum



 
gkirk
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:12 pm

There needs to be more direct links from regional airports such as NCL,EDI,CWL,BRS and GLA especially.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Guest

RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Sat Mar 17, 2001 12:44 am

They have a Type B AOC, which cost them £250,000 and took two years to get (due largely to John Evans not doing things properly the first ... second... or third time round) which only permits them to operate small commuter types. Their former, Managing Director, David Smith, wanted to go for a Type A which gives them more flexibility (such as the ability to operate large aircraft) - but no! They also do not have sufficient funds to pass the CAA's capital adequacy requirements for transatlantic operations.

They are doing OK on the CWL-ORK route and have just started CWL-MAN. AS long as they stick in that particular niche, they will be ok.
 
N312RC
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Sat Mar 17, 2001 12:54 am

I think that it's just sad. Some rinky-dink puddlejumping airline wants to start Transatlantic service. With what? A Do-228? HA! That would be like ASA flying from ATL to LHR.
N/A
 
Scotty
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Sun Mar 18, 2001 5:28 am

So where did Tripp start from? Or Howard Hughes? Or Freddie Laker? Or Richard Branson?

Whats the point of running an airline, no matter how small, if you dont want to get bigger.

 
englandair
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Sun Mar 18, 2001 5:29 am

Bloody well said mate!
 
atct
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Sun Mar 18, 2001 11:46 am

Cool, i hope to see them someday!
ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Jayhawk
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Mon Mar 19, 2001 7:21 am

LBA

Fully loaded jumbo's have used cwl, it was used as a main diversion airport that was utilised when london was fog bound.
a few years ago i saw VS 747s x 2 and a NW DC10 there, admittedly it is a rare sight.

Jayhawk
 
Guest

RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:34 pm

Don't forget that BA has one of its main maintenance bases at CWL ... loadsa 747s go through there!!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:22 pm

Jayhawk, those 747s weren't "fully loaded". They were diverted into CWL at the end of their longhaul flights so the fuel would have been low - that's nearly half the takeoff weight gone for starters. And when they departed, they were flying 20 minutes down the M4, so they weren't taking off at anything like max takeoff weight.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
diesel1
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:06 am

Whether it's Air Wales or Continental or who ever it would be great if CWL had a transatlantic service.

Whether there is sufficient business to sustain such an operation is another question !

Looking at the debate around the suitability of the runway, take off distance on the runways is at least 8000 feet - enough to see DC-10-30, B757, B767, Airbus330 and Airbus300 flying transatlantic either to Florida or Canada in recent years - and Airtours operated a B747 to Florida a couple of years ago, and CP Air operated them to Toronto back in the early 80s.
I don't like signatures...
 
LBA
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:10 am

Cedarjet

You took the words right out of my mouth. There is no way a fully loaded 747 could use a 7,300 ft runway.
 
Jayhawk
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:45 am

LBA & Cedarjet

I stand corrected

Jayhawk
 
jonnyboy
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RE: Air Wales Wants To Go US!

Tue Mar 20, 2001 11:07 am

Regionalising transaltlantic service is an important issue, but to really sort out transport issues in the UK, a lot more is needed...but anyway...CWL like many UK regionals has room for expansion, but lets not get carried away.

CWL is probably not too high on COs checklist, but I can see it happening in 4-5 years maybe. What will really help LHR and LGW (and for that matter the M4 and GWR (for those who are local to me)) is a more realistic regionalisation of services.

Air Wales is ambitious, but how about they grow orderly, like CLW-STN, GLA, EDI, DUB, CDG, BRU, AMS, BFS, then maybe start thinking about something bigger than a flying tin. I would imagine BA and KLM UK will try kill Air Wales if it becomes a real threat, and that a transatlantic service is pretty unrealistic, but great publicity for Air Wales!

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