sterne82
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 4:50 am

MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:35 am

Hi verybody,

I've just found on a "old" website, that when the MD-11 was launched, he have attracted some orders from JAT and AOM(French Airlines), is it true?

If yes, what did happen to this orders?

Also, I've found an old picture of a MD-11 flying for AA but which have been leased by "US AFRICA".Which Company was that, and do you have any info about it?

Thanks a lot

Cheers
 
KLMBLue
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:36 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:44 am

What website was it? It seems like an interesting site.

KLM
 
IFlyADesk
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:36 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:45 am

JAT and AOM were in fact early MD-11 customers. However JAT was in turmoil, didn't have any money, and the Slavs were too busy shooting eachother to worry about airlines and aircraft purchases/leases. AOM was a shaky deal from the start, as they were in the process of absorbing Minerve, and also probably ran out of money.

USAfrica did lease two AA M11s in the 90s fying IAD-SID-JNB (and later CPT). I don't think they even lasted a year, as their load factors were horrible and they couldn't make the lease payments.
 
Notarzt
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 2:45 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 7:24 am

McDonnell Douglas also lost orders from Aero Lloyd and Singapore Airlines (the latter being the most prestigeous MD-11 order and a big loss for the whole program, of course). A340 and B777 killed the MD-11.

Daniel
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 7:46 am

IMO what killed the MD11 was the very weak financial position MDD was in. Thus unable to build the best plane it could (for instance new wing design) and losing the confidence of its customer base.

If MDD's commercial division was financially strong and vibrant, it might have been a different story.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
IFlyADesk
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:36 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:06 am

Yes, the SQ deal was a ball-buster, especially when it happend so early in the program. However, SQ wormed-out of the deal rather easily as they had not put any money down on the order, so they walked-away with no money out of their pocket.

Strange enough that their A340 order coincided with the opening of extra landing slots at CDG. Go figure...
 
Guest

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:07 am

Air Europe also placed an order for the new MDD-trijet but it was cancelled after AE's demise .
They eventually would have become the first RR-powered MD-11's had AE taken delivery of them.
 
conair
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2000 9:41 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:23 am

As I remember it the SQ deal collapsed because the MD11's did not match up to the performance that MDC said they would, mostly fuel burn. American Airlines were also very unhappy with the performance of the aircraft and when they got their first deliveries refused to accept delivery of any more aircraft until the problems were sorted out.
 
IFlyADesk
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:36 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:09 am

AA did in fact have a lot to do with the MD-11's early demise, in the beginning. Early on the MD-11 did have performance shortfalls, which could be blamed on both the airframe and the GE engines.

AA badmouthed the aircraft big time and their complaints created a lot of bad press. However, AA also did not implement the performance improvement packages offered, including drag improvements and higher takeoff weights. AA's ex-MD-11s are some of the most backward MD-11s that were ever built.

AA started it, and the Boeing "merger" ended it...
 
QantasAirways
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 2:55 pm

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:20 pm

Hi,
I love the MD11 regardless of how successful it was...
I love the look of it, especially in EVA AIr's colours
QantasAirways
Spirit of Australia
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:44 pm

DL also had some complaints with the avionics and some of the new flight controls, up to the point where they demanded that a MD (or was it Honeywell or Rockwell or some other avionics producer) engineer ride on every flight.
 
trintocan
Posts: 2726
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 3:37 pm

MD11's story is a long sad one, posted several times before. In a nutshell it amounted to struggling MD issuing a derivative design quickly in order to snare orders from its loyal customer base (who had bought DC10s before) in anticipation of the A340 and of a Boeing competitor, which became the 777. Alas, the initial disappointments of AA proved a major blow and, even though MD improved the design and offered upgraded versions, the all new A340 and 777 quickly captured the market and killed the MD11. The final rites were performed by Boeing when initial optimism of freighter sales faded, largely because new freighter sales are generally small and, in any case, MD11s were being rapidly sold off for freighter use, especially to FedEx.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Mon Mar 19, 2001 10:46 pm

I think what really killed off the MD-11 was simple: ETOPS 180-minute certification.

When the 767 and 777 achieved ETOPS 180 certification, there was no longer a need to fly the MD-11, given that the 767 and 777 had lower seat-mile costs than the MD-11.

Besides the success of ETOPS-certified 767/777's, the Airbus A340 series also contributed much to the demise of the MD-11. The reason is simple: the A340 maintained much commonality with the A300/A310 series, so it sold well, particularly in Europe.
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: MD-11, What Did Happen?

Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:49 am

I fail to see how AA contributed to the MD11's demise. Being that they bought and took delivery of the aircraft and it didn't perform as promised, they had every right to put the screws to MDD. Airlines depend on an aircraft to perform as advertised. In order to run a successful business, you've got to be tough, thats why I'm not a businessman.

You're only as good as your last departure.

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