airmale
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1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Wed Mar 21, 2001 8:40 pm

Do you think the pilots who abandoned the aircraft and left their passengers and crew at the mercy of armed gunmen who later massacred some in a shoot out were right in their action? for those who dont know in September 86 a Pan Am 747 operationg Bombay-Karachi-Frankfurt-NewYork was hijacked at Karachi airport by armed Palestinians who entered the bay area posing as airport security force complete with uniforms and I.D cards, they boarded the aircraft after scaring away the guards posted near it by firing indescriminately in the air there were 300 plus passengers and crew on board, the entire cockpit crew managed to escape through the emergency hatch of the cockpit, later failed negotiations led the frustrated hijackers to open fire on the passengers resulting in many deaths, experst say that the Capt and flight crew should not have abandoned the aircraft Confused

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FaisZ
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:21 pm

Although considered a cowardly act by some, you only get to live once and obviously these guys felt that the risk was too much. Before you jump to any conclusions, think about what you would do in these circumstanses. If you don't agree, please spare me the heroism and pardon my bias.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:56 pm

If I remember rightly the Pakistani security services/police were rather slow in reaching the striken plane, when the hijackers started murdering the passengers and crew after negotiations for their safe release had failed/broken down. I think this is where criticism should be directed.
 
cedarjet
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Wed Mar 21, 2001 11:28 pm

The pilots didn't leave the aircraft out of cowardice, it was to reduce the bargaining chips held by the hijackers. A 747 without pilots is just a poorly-ventilated series of rooms that happens to cost $135m. Getting out of the situation was a pleasant by-product of their action but it wasn't why they left. Pan Am crews were made of sterner stuff than that and always did what was best for their aircraft and passengers. Not cowards.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 1:57 am

Alot of people in this part of the world thought that the crew abandoned the aircraft because 95 percent of the passengers and cabin crew were of South Asian descent and the White American pilots didnt really care nor did the American Govt. otherwise the negotiations would never have failed Confused
.....up there with the best!
 
B747-437B
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 3:44 am

My dad has done a lot of work reviewing security procedures to be followed in the event of a hijack, and the unanimous agreement is for the flight crew to exit the aircraft as early as possible. A hijacked aircraft is useless when it can't fly and historically that has provided additional leverage during negotiations.

I think the flight crew did the right thing - not out of cowardice, but out of prudence. The loss of life could have been potentially greater had the aircraft been flown to a different country and a similar ending played out.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Greg
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 5:14 am

What possible relevance does this have fourteen years after the fact?

Pan Am is out of business.
 
N202PA
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 5:29 am

I'm sure it matters to the hundreds of people on the aircraft that were affected by this tragedy, especially the families of those who were killed.
 
VirginA340
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 7:40 am

I think 14 people were killed on the plane including an Indian actress who was also a PA FA who sheilded 3 kids from getting shot. Unfortionatly; the FA had died but she got the highest bravery award by the Indian gov that could be given to civilians for their heroism. Gaod bless her. I personally think the pilots did have just cause to jump out of the plane. Should the shooting happen while the 747 was in the air. Everyone would've died. But it was only 14 instead of everyone because this was on the ground with the doors open. I think the plane was a 747SP not a 747-100. The plane I think was called Clipper New Horizons or Horizon. Does anyone know what had happened to this plane. I know that after the shooting PA had it fixed up and back in service 6 months later.
"FUIMUS"
 
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American 767
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 7:57 am

No, it was not an SP, it was a 100. I remember seeing it on television. The SP's were flown on TransPacific routes only. And at the time of the hijack in Karachi, all 11 SP's were sold already to United.

Ben Soriano
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Ben Soriano
 
hugo
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 8:04 am

This is a forum. People post and respond to what is interesting to them. Some things are relevant to others...don't respond if you find it inconsequential.

B747-437B is correct: The pilots left the aircraft to disable it...Standard security procedure. It was the Indian purser that was killed who notified the pilots of the hijackers on board. Because the idiot hijackers did not realize the cockpit was on the upper deck, she was able to stall them, thereby allowing the pilots to escape via the cockpit hatch. She was also credited for notifying the cabin crew to put all doors on "automatic", an action that allowed many passengers to slide to safety.
 
B747-437B
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 9:33 am

I'm not sure what the original name of the aircraft was, but it was renamed "Clipper Neerja Bhanot" in memory of the purser who was killed in the incident.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
LatinPlane
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 9:42 am


It's quite insulting and outrageous to hear the fact that many people think that the American gov. or the airlines' "white pilots" didn't care for the passengers just because most of them were of east asian nationality.

They need to use their displaced anger and direct it toward the correct cause. The palestinian terrorist and the Karachi airport security system that was in charge of the security at the time.

I've heard outrageous Anti-American sentiments here and all over the place that just don't make sense. Like during the egyptian pyramid terrorist attack a few years ago. I couldn't belive what I was hearing when tunning on CNN, this ignorant woman on the street of Cairo blaiming Americans for what had happened.


Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:21 am

Hey!

I was born in 1986, so I don't remember! This was a tragic incident, and the flight crew made bad calls.
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:09 pm

Guys, I understand that this hijacking was a tragic, but still, what happened, happened.
As far as the pilots are concerned, if I was one of them, I wouldn't have abadoned the plane even if it cost my life.
 Smile
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:40 pm

Airmale,
Would a PIA crew have acted any differently given the opportunity?

FlyerC_B757 and Pilot_man, go back and read B747-437B's first posting very carefully, you could also do a search on messages posted by him to find out who his father is. You will find that the crew actions are now standard practice in any hijacking, its the easiest way to turn a plane in to a building.
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:19 pm

So none of you here think the situation would've ended differently had the passengers and crew been Americans not of the immigrant kind? I think it would've, nor would the flight crew have abandoned the aircraft, no offence to Americans here but thats the sad truth, and I agree with Pilot_man I myself would never have abandoned the aircraft and the people onboard if I had been the pilot, rather die with honour than having lived like a coward Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
cedarjet
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RE: Airmale, Pilot_man, FlyerC_757

Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:55 pm

Airmale, Pilot_man, FlyerC_757, you guys would be dangerous liabilities in a hijacking or other emergency. Haven't you read the posts by 747-437 et al? You are obviously not interested in what would be the best course of action (ie disable the flight by robbing it of pilots), only some perverted journey to personal glory involving dying like a martyr at the expense of the lives of your passengers. And as for the nonsense about the nationalities of the passengers, I doubt the pilots would have known - they're onboard before the pax, and this crew would have flown in from Germany and the US with a plane load of Americans so if they had visualised the predominant skin colour in the cabin at all I suspect that colour would have been white. But the racist argument is ridiculous, aircrew (especially PAN AM!)spend their lives in other countries and are 99% colourblind before they're out of line training.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:57 pm

Airmale,

Would you care to answer my question, "would a PIA crew have acted any differently"?

It still amazes me that people in this part of the world can turn everything around to blame the US, is this an ability that you learn or are you born with it?
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:25 pm

Cant say Ambasaid, but chances are they would, Cedarjet no one wants to die even as a martyr I can assure you of that, I certainly would not abandon my aircraft and passengers if i was the Captain the reason they got agitated was because the flight crew had escaped and besides those people would not have been hurt had the crew stayed on as most were Pakistani and Indian amongst others, as you can take note from the December 1984 hijack of a Karachi bound Kuwait Airways A310 to Tehran also by Palestinians, that flight too was carrying 99 percent Pakistani passengers all of whom were realeased unharmed, sadly two American diplomats were killed in that incident.
.....up there with the best!
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:49 am

I was thinking about myself being in a similar situation and came up with this, Id be scared for sure, of losing my life(no i dont want to be a martyr), my dream job which made me capt. of a 747 of a major airline after decades of hard work and sacrifice, the travel, the pay, the perks, my family and friends my joy for life, my wanderlust, my dreams but at the same time i could not live with myself for taking such a cowardly decision of abandanning the very people whom id be flying, who put their lives in my hands, personally for me company rules and regulations and standard procedures dont apply in such siutations i go with what i feel is right, and take full responsibility for my actions, i dont care if the rest of the flight crew escaped being the captain i wouldve stayed on and gone down with the ship, take the example of the F/A Neerja Banoth from this very incident , she was young and beautiful and had alot more going for her in life than working for an ailing airline, she couldve looked forward to a better package from the Gulf carriers, she couldve jumped off the plane and run for her life with the flight crew, she could've hidden herself and let those children be killed, but she didnt, it was her decision as an individual to do what was right and she did it, im sure she never wanted to be a martyr or have a plane be christened after her, but thats what she felt was the right thing to do and a self less act indeed, i really respect her and admire her courage, may she rest in peace-ameen, another example is of the PIA stewardess who stayed on with the hostages on a hijacked PK 720B in Afghanistan even though she was asked to leave with the rest of the female crew and women and children who were on the plane, that situation couldve turned ugly too but she accepted the consequences, not caring for her life, besides this hijacking was a one off case where the flight crew escaped because the stupid hijackers did not know that the cockpit on a 747 is on the upper deck, there have never been cases where the pilots have escaped before and nor will there ever be, so it clearly proves that this "standard procedure " was a failure from the start and proved fatal, i could never respect any one who abandonned ship to save their life when others needed him (even if it was my own father was in a similar situation as the PA Capt. i wouldnt have respected him) in many hijacking cases the Capt has played a pivotal role in handling the hijackers and keeping them from harming passengers as best as he could, I dont know how this one and the rest of the flight crew can live with themselves, maybe they dont have a concience, or ethical/moral values and rules and regulations were more important to them then the lives of the very people who trusted them to fly them safely to their destination.Those men were "BayGhairat' as we call them here Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:12 am

It´s very easy for you to say now, sitting at home in your cozy chairs in front of your computers, "oh, what a coward, I´d never have done that yaddayaddayadda...". I for sure would be scared shitless in such a situation and run as fast and as far away as I could. I´m not necessarily saying you´d join me in every case, maybe you ARE one of those heroes, but it seems highly probable.
Cowards live longer than heroes, by the way.
(And it wasn´t even cowardice, disregarding all regulations you mention, but a very natural [and prudent] act of self-preservation.)

Daniel Smile
 
initref
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:31 am

Airmale,
I can understand the emotional reasons you have outlined, however as others have pointed out - standard responses to such situations are to REMOVE options for hijackers/hostage takers. These policies are not about bravery, martyrdom or courage - they are about practicality and saving passengers' lives.

As such most airlines have policy that mandates flight crew to escape or immobilize their aircraft. The last thing most hostage negotiators/law enforcement want is for the hijackers to leave for yet another destination. It is NOT about saving flightcrew lives in preference to pax. I don't believe racism, xenophobia or any such thing had an impact in this incident.

Do you know any pilots at PIA or domestic Pakistani airlines? Rest your mind by asking them what their policy is, and what they would individually have done (as Ambasaid requested earlier) - granted it may be difficult to get this info - since airlines don't like "publishing" their hijack response actions.

Whether the USA acted appropriately during the actual negotiations is a different issue - that does not mean its OK to cast aspersions against the flight crew - just because they happen to be American.
 
B747-437B
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:53 am

This thread is actually beginning to get my blood boiling, because the people spouting off jingoistic nonsense are usually pretty sober and respectable.

I have experience in Law Enforcement (although my hostage negotiation experience is limited to a short seminar I attended, thankfully!) and my dad has been on multiple committees that reviewed safety procedures to be followed in the event of a hijacking. This is not merely theory to me, it is a procedure that my family lives with on a daily basis. So I will take it personally when you attack it without justification.

Obviously, I cannot go into specifics about what anti-hijacking procedures are, but ANYONE who has studied hijackings knows that there has never been a hijacking succesfully resolved in mid-air unless it is before the first touchdown. The mid-air resolutions usually involve a fatality, even if that fatality is the hijacker - and creates an additional risk to the passengers as a result. In some situations (such as the Ethiopian Airlines one), the fatalities are exacerbated by remaining aloft too long.

On the other hand, the risks are immensely reduced by staying on the ground. Take this very same PanAm example - if the same terrorists had opened fire at 35000 feet, the fatalities would have included EVERYONE ON BOARD, rather than just the few unfortunates that it did. You have to assume that the hijackers you are dealing with are unstable and hence prone to sudden decisions which may appear illogical to you. You also have to assume that the hijackers are ready to carry out their threats and accordingly counter it to make it as difficult as possible for them to do so, without appearing directly obstructive.

The flight crew did exactly that. By exiting the aircraft, they did not cost the lives of 14 people, but rather saved the lives of 286 others.

It STUNS ME that someone as educated as yourself could assign blame to some of the few people who did the right thing under the circumstances. Yes, maybe the US Government did not negotiate in good faith (but I don't think good faith was ever part of the Reagan vocabulary when dealing with terrorists), but to single out crew members who did their job WELL is ludicrous.

The true blame for this incident lies with no one other than the Pakistani authorities (whose record on anti-terrorism is far for exemplary on many other counts as well) who allowed the security breach to happen, as well as the Palestinians who sanctioned and performed the operation. Do not try and turn it around for whatever reason to make the victims into the villians, because it just reflects badly upon YOU!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:59 am

Airmale,

As you have decided to stay onboard the aircraft in your new role as Captain, try to picture what could have happened next........

The aircraft would have left Karachi bound for who knows where, maybe Beirut, on landing the hijackers would have received reinforcements as well as supplies, (as in the PA B747 hijacking in 1980, where the aircraft was destroyed). This now means that there is absolutely no chance of removing them by force so negotiations would have to begin regarding their demands, if these demands could not be met, I think that you would have seen a lot more bodies on the tarmac.

But this didn’t happen because the original Captain decided to ground the aircraft, therefore giving the control to the ground based authorities, they had the opportunity to control the situation, they didn’t and people died. Maybe you should divert your anger in their direction.

Now would you like to tell us which experts you were referring to in your original message?
 
IndianGuy
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:37 am

The purser, Neerja Mishra/Bhanot was not an actress.

A very brave lady.
 
Guest

RE: Airmale, Pilot_man, FlyerC_757

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:47 am

Hello there,

I am saying that if the terrorists killed pax because they were angry over the escapings of the pilots, I would rather have stayed.

Besides, I never even talked about anybody's nationality. I don't care where the come from.
Cheers,
Pilot_Man  Smile
 
AT
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 11:36 am

I was living in Karachi at the time, and yes, it was a 747-100, not SP.

If my memory serves me correctly, I recall the news reporting that t at some point the generator providing lighting to the aircraft failed and that is when the hijackers panicked and shot people.

As for the ensuing debate, it's easy for us sitting on our screens to criticize the cockpit crew, but I know that were I in such a situation, and an escape hatch was available, I would escape without thinking twice. Then I probably would feel mega guilty later....
 
Guest

RE: Last Comment

Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:53 pm

With all the respects to all the users, who read and write on this topic, I would like to say the following...

"It is true, that I would be scared, but, as a pilot of such a plane, I would dare not leave the plane. Islam, my religion, strickly tells us not to leave people in need, or in danger, so instead of makin myself a martyr, I would have stayed there to fulfill my last religious duty."
Thankyou very much,
Pilot Man
 
VirginA340
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:18 pm

For those of you who who think that the pilots were wrong in abandoning the plane. Did it ever entered your minds to think on what would happen if the pilots did not abandoned the plane? The senero would be that everyone on-board would've been dead should it have taken off and the possibility of the Terroists wanting to crash it ito a major city like Karachi, Islambad, Delhi, Bombay,etc for them to be worshiped like marters for their stupid cause. The casualties and possibilities would make Tenerife look like just another plane crash. But instead of hundreds and thousands only a dozen people or a few more were killed instead of the entire plane or any potential victim on the ground; thankfully to the talented flight and cabin crew as well as smart quick thinking passengers. As an Indian living here in the US I commend the pilots for their decision. I know it wasn't easy but as a result many many people have their lives and there were a minimum of casualites. Even though more than half of the plane survived we must not forget the ones that died. But don't forget those who could've died in the plane and on the ground if the plane was to be crashed into a major city in the area. And no There was no racism against anybody. The pilots and crew did what they had to in order to protect themselves and others from suffering the same fate as the dozens who died the best they could. By potraying them as bigots or selfish poeple; you are not helping anybody; You're just adding fuel to a fire that has been put out along time ago. Let it die. Many others have. The crew of that PAN AM flight would've acted no differently if the passengers were moslty white and the plane was on a JFK-LHR route. Once again. To the flight crew, cabin staff and passengers. Job well done.
"FUIMUS"
 
B747-437B
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:25 pm

Pilot_man - with all due respect, Islamic tenets have no place in a hijacking incident, regardless how relevant they may be to your life otherwise.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sat Mar 24, 2001 8:13 pm

B747-437B religious tenets have everything to do with situations where others are in trouble, anyways since majority of you here have the same view i dont want to argue any further, the fact that Americans can raid countries to seek out an individual im surprised they didnt send commandos to rescue those passengers, I also strongly believe the situation would've ended very different if the passengers had been White Americans, as we can see from all the hype that followed the 185 TWA hijack, and in that too the German stewardess was better than the men Smile

p.s they did send the military to rescue the hostages in Iran, and why do they honour people who go out of their way to help others and in many cases sacrifice their lives on the "Real Life" TV shows in America, why not just ignore their acts too and honour the cowards who just stood by and watched from the sidelines, talk about Hypocricy.
.....up there with the best!
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 1:38 am

Airmale,

I can just imagine the blood bath if the Americans sent commandos into Beirut after this aircraft.

I guess that i should tell you that the largest Middle Eastern airline has the same rules for the flight deck crew, regardless of the nationalty or religion of the passengers!

Btw, in the USA your attitude would class you as a racist, does the same rule apply in Dubai.
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 1:56 am

Me ConfusedA racist Asian!!! a Tan supremist!! thats news.As for the dumb hijackers they might as well have taken over a New York bound PIA flight, little did they know that the aircraft of the airline of the country they despise, which they expected to be loaded with whites would be full of coloured's, I can picture them feeling just so stupid Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:16 am

You are pretty racist airmale. Saying that all whites are racists IS racism.
 
airmale
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 3:51 am

Please dont get the wrong idea, Im not being racist, what word should i use? will Caucasian be better? for your information we Asians are also considered Caucasian just that our skin colour makes us different to the fairer counterparts, besides theres definitely some racism involved in this tragedy, why wasnt it glorified like the TWA hijack just a year before? why wasnt a movie made on Neerja Bhanot? why where the poor third rate Asian immigrants and tourists going to the USA not worth the extra effort of US military action or negotiations by Americans themselves rather than some daft Pakistani Govt. official Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
B747-437B
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:42 am

Airmale : Cut your losses and shut up before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Now that you have been defeated by logic, you have no option but to play the religious card and finally the race card. That sickens me.

The scariest part is that you honestly believe that the nonsense you are sprouting is the truth. It just illustrates that IF there still is a racial divide today, it is probably being exacerbated by people like you rather than by the "white Americans" who are perfectly willing to assimilate.

Open your eyes for a second and stop assuming the damn persecution complex that seems to be so popular with modern-day subcontinentals.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Airmale, Pilot_man, FlyerC_757

Sun Mar 25, 2001 3:30 pm

A few points.
Airmale: racists come in all colors, races, religions. Just because you're Asain doesn't make you impervious to such feelings. We ALL have them to some degree.

Pilot_man: So you would violate the rules of your airline, thus endangering more passengers, because of your religious beliefs? I'm sure that would give you great solice after you put the plane back in the air, landed it in friendly territory for these mutts who hijacked it, and then everyone died. I'm sure Allah would reward you.

The two of you just didn't read what was going on here-in any hostage situation, the hostage-takers have more leverage and command when they are MOBILE. That's why they always ask for a bus, or a car, or an aircraft. When they have mobility, they have a bargaining chip. Take away that mobility, and they've lost that chip. That's why it's standard procedure.

With the two of you and your ex post-facto, monday-morning quarterbacking, all we've found out is that you have bigger gonads than the rest of us. Good for you. The fact remains your higher levels of testosterone would only get more people killed in a similar situation.
 
Alpha 1
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One More Thing..

Sun Mar 25, 2001 3:32 pm

Pilot_Man, my PERSONAL religious convictions, no matter how strong and heartfelt they are, could NEVER EVER get in the way of policies that are designed to save lives in a situation like this. EVER! I don't have the right to do such a thing.
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:12 pm

So the evil imperialist american govt flexed their racist muscle by banning all movies about the hijacked Pan Am flight because it was full of asians? Im sure if it were whites on the plane there would be at least 18 blocbusters about it.

Get real!
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
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RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Sun Mar 25, 2001 9:02 pm

By the way I love America and Americans Smile/happy/getting dizzy
.....up there with the best!
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:23 am

The following is taken from “Fasten your seatbelts” the history of FA’s in Pan Am.

Neerja Bhanot was in charge of the first class cabin and was standing by the L1 door when the hijackers burst into the cabin. As soon as they made a sudden left turn and ran for what they thought they would find the cockpit, she fled up the spiral staircase of the 747. She had been told repeatedly during training that the most important step to take in a hijacking on the ground was to disable the aircraft by removing the flight crew. With a grounded aircraft the terrorists might be persuaded to give up their quest. She quickly alerted the pilots to the crisis so they could make their escape through the cockpit hatch. The Captain, co-pilot and engineer immediately locked the cockpit door and set about their escape, clambering through the hatch and winching themselves to the ground…

The story goes on about the heroism displayed by Neerja, which resulted in her death. But it also explains how the aircraft was parked on the ramp for 17 hours during which time the PAKISTAN authorities were in charge of negotiations. The first person executed was actually an American, Rajesh Kumur. The hijacking finally ended with the death of 21 people with more than 50 injured.

Airmale, It is obvious from this report that they were following orders regardless of the nationalities of the passengers.

I’m amazed how people from the sub continents can turn this around to show that the crew only left because the passengers were of a lower caste.


As for the 15 year old who wants to die for Allah……get a life
 
Guest

To Airmale, Alpha 1, Ambasaid

Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:55 am

Airmale: Even though you are on my respected users list, I would frankly say that your comments are pretty racist. Racist in a sense that you are saying that USA doesn't care for brown people. NOT TRUE, THEY LOVE INDIAN GOVT.
Alpha 1: I believe you got a point there.
Ambasaid: I already have a life, that's why I am alive. It is not to die for Allah, it was to help passengers on humanitarian causes. See, I don't care if the passenger were green or blue, jewish or muslims, americans or somalians, it would be to negotiate personally to the hijackers, if got a chance or at least, refuse to listen to them...most hijackers can't even blow up the plane in fear that they themselves might die. They only reason they got to kill 21 people was due to the fact that 747 was full. If the aircraft was a tiny 737 100, I believe that far less people would have died.
I wouldn't go up to the hijackers, swear at them or punch them, I would have just refused to take off.

If they were stupid enough to kill all the passengers, then they was nothing to terrorize for.

Anyways, I respect all of your opinions and more are welcome.
Pilot_Man
 
Guest

RE: One More Thing

Mon Mar 26, 2001 2:10 am

Besides, I believe it would of no use to me to argue using ISLAM in public places like this where everybody, including me, write as I wish.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 2:34 am

Pilot_man. In case you didn't read my last post. Your negociations wouldn't do jack because once your hijacked plane is over a maor city like Delhi, Bombay, Pakistan, Karachi and they decide to shoot you and your crew to crash that plane intothat city killing many on the ground. This would make the PSA 727 crash in California just another plane crash. Bear inmind that many hijackers will die for their cause and don't care as long as they've helped their cause. If you stay in the flight deck rather than bail out the chances of your passengers dying and the next of kin to sue your comany for wrongful death is a high possibility which is why that companypolicy is there.

If you do survive then that comapny will make sure that you don't even pilot as so much as a Piper due to your insubordination which costed the lives of many. But then again why don't you ask the pilots in your home country and then tell them your opinion. They'll laugh at you because the 15 year old who probably doens't know jack about planes istelling a Senior 747 Captian on what he/she should not do in an emergency.

Smooth man Really Smooth

I thing you better cut your looses before you make a big fool of yourself.
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 3:14 am

Pilot_boy

If you dont want to argue about certain things such as islam, then dont come out with stupid statements like this.

"It is true, that I would be scared, but, as a pilot of such a plane, I would dare not leave the plane. Islam, my religion, strickly tells us not to leave people in need, or in danger, so instead of makin myself a martyr, I would have stayed there to fulfill my last religious duty."

Because if you do, then people might just ask you to justify your comments.

And if you were to do this I wouldn't go up to the hijackers, swear at them or punch them, I would have just refused to take off. you would be immediately killed.




 
taliban
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:41 pm

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:20 pm

Hello all,

I believe that what Airmale and pilot_man has to say is wrong. If the pilots didn't exit the aircraft, then the hijackers might have asked them to fly to their destination or possibly shoot them in the sky over Karachi which might have easily killed 100,000+ people. Besides, what that Air hostess had to die for will remain mystery to us.
Best regards,
Taliban
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:18 pm

Taliban; Dude; Read the rest of the posts before commenting; the PA flight attendent died while trying to save three kids from a hail of gunfire. Which is why the Indian Gov gave her next of kin the highest medal for bravery that can be awarded to a civilan.
"FUIMUS"
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 7:31 pm

Ahhhhhhh.......!!!!!!!!!!  Nuts (That's better)

My understanding of the procedture in a hijacking for the pilots is as has been said, the cockpit crew should get out while the aircraft is being taken. However, after the case, the danger is it may unsettle the hijackers - who may take it out on the hostages, so crews should stay aboard, but try and stall any departure of the aircraft as much as possible.

My only knowledge is from a day I spent with a head of security planning who specialises in hijacks (so I'm NOT qualified to really comment).

In the case of Karachi, I understand the operation was run by Pakistan (it is their country and I somehow doubt they'd agree to US Commandos raiding the plane), with locally based US Security Officials observing, along with London based PA Security Officials. When you travel overseas you are subject to the laws and authorities of the land you're in and not your own. Welcome to the facts of life...  Wow!

To those who say commandos could have been sent to Beirut to rescue everyone in some hypothetical school boy fantasy, I think you need to learn a bit more about the Beirut hostage situation in the 1980's (and what actually happened)

It was the interventialist policies of the US and other major powers that allowed terrorism like this to be fuelled and the ignorance of those who continue to proport it amazes me (it's a major reason why you see "white imperialist" type posts).

To all those who attack the crew for doing as trained: The first thing you learn for any job in the aviation business, especially any operational job, (the Goldern Rule if you like) is you always strictly stick to your training, especially when safety and security are concerned, failure to do so is likely to result in injury/death to yourself and or others. Anyone who cannot cope with that, has no place around aviation.
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: 1986 Pan Am Hijacking At Karachi

Mon Mar 26, 2001 8:26 pm

Its all starting to make sense now, but as an individual the Captain atleast should've stayed onboard as a moral obligation, im sure he alone would not have been expected to fly the plane Smile
.....up there with the best!