bodobodo
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 6:43 pm

Gimli Glider Update And Question

Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:57 pm

I thought people might want to know what's happened to the Gimli Glider since AC retired it. It's stored in a compound at Dorval airport in Montreal. They've now removed the engines and seem to have done some other work to it especially along the tail. Here's a photo taken a few days ago:


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Felix Sieder



My question is would this be standard procedure on a plane that's been retired and waiting for sale or do you think this is the first step towards scrapping or disassembing this plane?

Cheers,
Felix
 
L-188
Posts: 29874
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:03 am

Pretty standard procedure. Esp. if the a/c is going to be ots for a while.There is no point in having a pair of perfectly good engines not in circulation.


It is way way way too young of an aircraft to scrap


When the aircraft is sold they will put a pair of engines back on.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:05 am


Looks like we now got a real glider, huh?  Wink/being sarcastic

Daniel Smile
 
Bryston
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 5:46 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:26 am

I never heard of the Gimli Glider story before. I found this article about it, its a must read!

http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html

What a relief the passengers must had when the aircraft was finnally stopped!

Bryston
I'd rather be flying...
 
Guest

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:44 am

>>An amusing side-note to the Gimli story is that after Flight 143 had landed safely, a group of Air Canada mechanics were dispatched to drive down and begin effecting repair. They piled into a van with all their tools. They reportedly ran out of fuel en-route, finding themselves stranded somewhere in the backwoods of Manitoba<<

Those pilots sure saved the day!  Smile
Iain
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:58 am

Gimili is actually not one of the planes for sale...the plane is no longer airworthy as it has suffered from some serious rusting along the spine of the aircraft. and AC has just decided to pull the plane from service all togther....thats why I think it should be donated to a museum and AC can write the air plane off and get the money back from the government.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:00 am

Those pilots sure did save the day, but the act of accepting the a/c with more than one fuel quantity system inop was an inexcusable act of negligence.

There is not one airliner/airline I know that allows for more than one tank quantity to be inop requiring a known quantity to be performed.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:03 am

FDXmech it all depends on the MEL (minimum equipment list).
I am not sure about airlines, but with general aviation I know they are only required to read empty accurately.
Iain
 
gkirk
Posts: 23345
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:16 am

Has anyone seen the film aout it? I thought the pilots were absolutly brilliant in the way they handled it.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:24 am

The MEL, although I didn't specifically say it, is to what I'm referring to. Having one fuel tank quantity system inop is a relatively common problem which can be MEL'd albeit sometimes with operational restrictions depending on what tank and what aircraft we're talking about. But should a second tank quantity suddenly develop problems, the aircraft is grounded until at least one of the fuel quantity systems is fixed.

You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:26 am

FDXMech, I think you know more then me, I will now be quiet!  Smile
Iain
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 6:06 am

One of the fuel quantity indicators was actually working when the aircraft left YEG on the previous flight, but at YUL the mechanics looked at the problem and tried to diagnose it, and when doing so they left the second (faulty) system with the switch in the "on" position, which faulted the whole thing. With neither of the indicators working, they never should have left, but then the flawed manual drip was carried out which sealed the disaster.

As to the fate of 604, I heard that it's going to be parked for the next few months, and will undergo some heavy repairs due to the keel beam corrosion. I have heard that it may, however, return to service then, if it is needed  Smile.
 
bodobodo
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed May 03, 2000 6:43 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:41 am

Thanks for the feedback. I hope they do manage to repair C-GAUN and keep it flying.

Cheers,
Felix
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 12:58 pm

I hope it keeps flying, but I also hope AC realizes the historical value of this aircraft and won't have it scrapped at the end.
 
DL727-200adv
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 10:23 am

RE: 767's Aging Corrosion?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:45 pm

Isn’t this aircraft a little young to have such severe corrosion that it would be cheaper to scrap rather than repair? Are most 767’s of this vintage so prone to similar severe corrosion? Or is this more of a reflection on AC’s maintenance program? DL, AA & UA have older 767’s of similar vintage & I have not heard of plans to retire them anytime soon.

DL727-200adv
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: 767's Aging Corrosion?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:26 pm

Dl727-200, actually AC's maintenance program is excellent, and this corrosion isn't the only reason the aircraft is grounded - the aircraft is also due for a heavy check (when these sorts of problems are normally addressed). The check is being delayed (until June is when I heard) and the the fate of 604 will be decided then, as AC is still considering it's requirements.
 
Transat1011
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:14 am

Is It Really Retired?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:55 pm

Hi:

I went a few weeks ago to the AC Maintenace base and msn 604 C-GAUN was there along with another 767 and an A340.
I was told (or maybe I misinterpreted) that C-GAUN was simply in D check and due to the overcapacity of Air Canada, the check will take a bit longer. Furthermore, I saw the engines were taken off but they are well identified in the AC hangar and not for use on another aircraft, at least for now.
Best rgds,
F. Meunier
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:56 pm

CPDC10-30 - why would any company want to memoralize a historical fu*k up? The plane ran out of gas, fer chrissakes. It would be like Delta enshrining the burned out tail section of flight 191, or Southwest opening a museum for the Burbank accident airplane.
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

Goingboeing

Sat Mar 24, 2001 6:59 am

Hey wiseguy,
Maybe because they safely landed a 767 that was out of fuel, because no one died, because the pilots tried damn hard and succeeded, because it's quite a feat to control let alone land a 767 glider, because it wasn't a write off, and it's a tribute to the skill of the pilots.

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:15 am

Then....put up a bust of the pilots in Montreal. But, for what it's worth, it's the responsiblity of the pilot to make sure that the aircraft has enough fuel to make it to it's destination. Through a sequence of errors, it didn't.

No matter how "historic", it isn't really a great idea, public relations wise, to create a monument to what amounted to an error on the part of the airline.
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:50 am

I don't think there is any ill feeling to AC because of the Gimli incident...it is more a source of pride showing the quality of their pilots. I don't think you understand that.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:55 am

Perhaps not to some aviation enthusiasts. But have a tribute of an aircraft for a nervous flyer to see and explain that it ran out of gas. They won't take comfort in the skills of the pilots - they will be even more anxious - hoping that their flight has enough fuel.

That's why I don't think you'll ever see an airline do something to publicize that problem. What kind of impact (no pun intended) do you think it would have if UAL played Rhapsody in Blue while showing films of UAL232 tumbling thru a cornfield. Were it not for the skill of those pilots, everyone on board would have been killed. They don't do it because airlines don't really want to play up "our pilots averted disaster", rather they would focus on a big comfy first class seat with a blanket and your own private, fully attentive hostess.
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 8:00 am

Of course it wouldn't be displayed by AC...I was thinking more of the Canadian Aviation museum. As Slawko has said, companies get a tax write-off when making a donation to a charitable foundation. Heck, you can donate your old Buick to the Kidney foundation and they'll give you a tax receipt for that too.

I think it would be a big draw. Now if only they would repaint it to the 1983 colour scheme.

Goingboeing: I think it would be inappropriate to showcase an airplane when people were injured. But no one was (except for minor injuries on the slides).
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:38 am

Goingboeing, while certainly crashed airliners aren't something anyone wants to remember, the Gimli Glider isn't like DL191 or anything... why? Well, although 604 was involved in an incident people would rather didn't happen, it also has almost a legend attached to it. Aviation spotters recognize it. But furthermore, while the flying public may not be able to pick it out of a line, they are aware of it enough that if someone identified it for them, they'd know exactly what it was. And wouldn't feel at all scared to fly in it. In fact, I think most people would want to fly in it, it just has that legendary sort of feel to it. And that's to a large amount among AC employees, as well. It's a favorite, because of the story behind it, and because things that went disasterously wrong at 30,000' came to a safe conclusion. It's a tribute to safety, not to disaster.
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:48 am

WELL SAID AC183, hopefully that will shed some more light on the issue to Goingboeing. When my buddy Mickey lent me the book on the disaster (I can't remember the name, but it was around 200 pages or so with the foreward by Bob Pearson), I could not put it down, I read it in about 5 hours, it is a great read for any aviation enthusiast.

Jeremy
Think before you type!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:01 pm

saw the movie a few years ago...

daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:31 pm

Just one thing to add to the above....This plane did what Boeing said it could not do...TO have a plane this size flying and landing relativly safely is something that is unthinkable for some people...when AC approached Boeing with the problem, they had no answers for them...AC basically wrote the book on gliding a boeing...and what was experianced in the Gimli incident, could be used to avoid disaster on other airliners, not just if a plane runs out of fuel, but in cases of fuel contamination, where both engines would become INOP in flight ( and it has happened) While I agree this was a big screw up by all parties involved, the gimli is a part of Canadian Aviation History, and as such should be preserved, but as Canadian Aviation History goes it will probably be cast a side and scrapped just like the Arrows, and the Jetliner, and pretty much every other monumental part of Canadian history.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Mon Apr 09, 2001 5:48 am

The mind boggles at some of the questions (and answers!) posted on this board. Oh well...

Here's the article in the Gimli Glider, posted by Bryston recently.

http://www.frontier.net/~wadenelson/successstories/gimli.html

 
b744
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 5:48 pm

RE: Doh!

Mon Apr 09, 2001 5:50 am

Sorry about that - was meaning to post it under the 'What happens if 2 engines fail' question!
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Mon Apr 09, 2001 6:26 am

This brings to mind another successful landing of a jet-powered twin-engined aircraft with out any engine power.....and away from an airport at that. That would, of course, be the successful landing of a TACA 737-300 outside New Orleans in May of 1988, after a double engine failure, on a grass levee after a meeting with a thunderstorm.

Tom in NO (at MSY)
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
trintocan
Posts: 2725
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Gimli Glider Update And Question

Mon Apr 09, 2001 11:53 am

It is sad to see this historic plane grounded, even if it is ostensibly for a D-check. I hope that this plane is restored to service soon. I saw the movie too and read about the incident when it happened in 1983 - it surely was a miracle that the plane landed safely.

As for preserving it, it would surely be great that the plane be preserved after its final retirement and repainted in the colours that it wore at the time of the incident. That would be a great testimony to the pilots who flew the great jet to safety even under trying circumstances.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!