toxtethogrady
Posts: 1693
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:00 pm

Let's evaluate this pending move...

Boeing - which has almost all its aircraft production in Seattle, the military production in St. Louis and Southern California, and its NASA contracting in Houston near the JSC, decides to move. So where do they look?
Chicago? - Da Bulls and Da Bears ain't what they used to be. But United is there.
Dallas? - Where it's 110 in the shade in July and the guys in the cowboy hats make fun of aerospace engineers who hail from Bangalore? But American is there.
Denver? - When has Boeing even VISITED Denver? Are they wooing Frontier?

It reminds me of ExxonMobil pulling up stakes and leaving New York. They ended up 250 miles north of where they should have landed.
 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:09 pm

You must understand that Boeing is not moving the factory. They are only moving the HQ.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1693
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

The WSJ Once Commented On This Phenomenon...

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:16 pm

...where the CEO's move to some remote location far away from their operations. When that renowned business genius William Agee took over Boise-based Morrison Knudson Co., he chose to run it from his executive offices in Pebble Beach, CA. They went Chapter 11 not much later.

Having the boss a thousand miles away from where the work is done is not a recipe for maintaining lines of communication...
 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:44 pm

>You must understand that Boeing is not moving the factory. They are only moving the HQ.

You must understand this is just the beginning. First they move corp HQ (probably to DFW), then they move the engineers, then they start moving production to Mexico, and next thing you know the 'last person out' billboards will be back in Seattle.

>Having the boss a thousand miles away from where the work is done is not a recipe for maintaining lines of communication...

I think thats what Phil Condit is going for. If hes thousands of miles away from the company, they can't really access him as well, can they?

I'm telling y'all, this is just the beginning of a de-Boeingizing of Seattle.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1693
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

I Was Going To Bet On Chicago...

Fri Mar 23, 2001 1:51 pm

Big Shoulders is more of a financial center and international hub than Denver and DFW, and that's part of what Condit seemed to want. I'm surprised Atlanta, St. Louis and Houston weren't considered.
 
D L X
Posts: 11639
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:23 pm

Boeing CEO Condit was on Fox News Channel last night.

They are only moving the HQ. The idea is that there is too much micromanagement with hq being so close to the commercial division. Boeing is now trying to stress that the space and defense arms are just as important, so HQ won't be in the same city as any of the divisions.

N766AS, they're not going to Mexico. Don't you think that would be an incredibly expensive move to vacate the largest building in the world, and just rebuild a new one elsewhere? How about the supply chain? To Mexico? Come on now.
 
FDXmech
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Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:44 pm

Personally, I think its stinks. I lose respect and confidence in Condit with every article I read about him. From what I read in Boeings website, its all about increasing stockholder value according to Condit. Thats just another corporate buzzword and gimmick doomed to failure and alienating the commercial airplane workforce even more than it is now.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
BlatantEcho
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:49 pm

The way you increase shareholder value is through increaseing revenue, growth, market share, and profit margins. So what if you call it "increaseing shareholder value" are any of these principles bad for a company?

I would only be concered if it was short term value, such as selling off parts of the company. I can't see how this will hurt Boeing in any way other than short term PR.

My respectful $.02 of course,
BlatantEcho
They're not handing trophies out today
 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:53 pm

>Don't you think that would be an incredibly expensive move to vacate the largest building in the world, and just rebuild a new one elsewhere?

It won't happen that fast. Keyword: gradual. First its the 37/57 manufacturing, then...
 
FDXmech
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Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:03 pm

My argument isn't with increasing shareholder value, not in the least. But everytime a corporation makes an obviously silly move, they explain it away by saying its to increase shareholder value. Now obviously I'm not "in the know" of their true motivations to move their HQ's but if I worked in their commercial division, I bet their would be rumors flyin aplenty, and not pleasant ones at that.

Too much micromanagement isn't solved by moving your HQ's, you can micromanage with a cell phone and conference calls to your hearts delight if this is the established corporate culture.



You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Logos
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RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:16 pm

I have a good friend who works for Boeing here as a customer service rep. I called him after reading of the move on the internet to get his take. He hadn't heard about it! I said, well, I wasn't sure how information flows with Boeing he said "pretty much like molassas".

Now, in Seattle, I'm sure it's a different story but I still have yet to see a good, business-based reason for doing this. I agree; the "enhancing shareholder value" argument is often dragged out when they can't think of anything else to say.

Cheers,
Dave in Berlin
Too many types flown to list
 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:39 pm

So when will Washington State step in with special tax incentives to keep Boeing there......
 
FDXmech
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Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

Ambasaid

Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:54 pm

Looking at a few websites, thats what it appears to be about. Taxes and the generally high cost of doing business in the region according to Boeing sources.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
N628AU
Posts: 354
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RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:30 pm

766AS....

Pass some of what you are smoking this way.
 
na
Posts: 9129
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RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 6:45 pm

Why is Boeings HQ moving? Does Condit think losing contact to his workforce enhances corporate spirit?

A very strange idea, if you ask me.

On the other hand, its an reletively easy recipe to get rid of a large number of high-paid managers. Move far away from the place where the most have been living for long, have their friends, pay their mortgages. I guess Boeing offers most off them to move with the office. But its selfunderstood that a lot will prefer to stay, look for a job with with a lower income. That happened to two of my former companies I worked for. And it saved a lot of money for golden handshakes.
 
NUAir
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Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 7:47 pm

Boeing is hardly a Seattle company anymore. If you look at all their manufacturing facilities from Witchita to Long Beach to contracts throughout the world Seattle isn't the greatest place in the world for an aerospace corporate center. It seems to me a more central location such as Denver would be more beneficial to direct national operations. And you don't have to deal with 364 days of rain and delays every year. It's not a ploy to attract new customers or move to Mexico (GM and Ford stayed in Michigan while their factories went to Mexico) its just a good business practice to centralize corporate headquarters. If anything it might improve life in Seattle and free up some more residential and commercial real estate making it somewhat affordable again.

Husky Crew #1
NUair
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:21 pm

Keep in mind that of Boeing's nearly 200,000 employees, only 90,000 work on the commercial aircraft side. The rest are 45,000 in aerospace, 45,000 in military, the rest misc. boeing divisions. I'm not sure how the revenues break down - does anyone have that info...? This board is obviously focused on the commercial side, but Condit has a much bigger picture to deal with.
 
sccutler
Posts: 5556
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

Stereotypes And Ignorance...

Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:23 am

...are the content and genesis of Tox's first post in this thread.

The D/FW area is very heavy in aerospace; and (as recent decades have shown us) a very popular place to relocate corporate HQ's, for reasons of costs, central location, quality of life, available workforce, tax policy and others.

Boeing has very substantial operations here, as well.

I am sure that there are similar rationales for Chicago and Denver, as well.

Of course, it may all be a ploy to secure tax concessions from WA state, etc.; but don't let your irrational biases distract you from business reality.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
uprightNlocked
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:02 am

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:47 am

Boeing will most certainly move to Chi-town. Boeing does not solely serve US carriers - they need to be located in a city which will serve an international client base. You can fly from ORD to almost any major city world-wide non-stop. AA and UA maintain a fortress hub at ORD. Chicago is a city that can easily entertain the head of any airline while he/she is doing business with Boeing - Opera, Theatre, Dinning, 1st class lodging, upscale country-clubs, all within 7 hours to Europe and 13 hours to Asia.

Dallas and Denver a great cities, but Chicago is much more international.
 
sccutler
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Sat Mar 24, 2001 8:11 am

Interestingly enough, Upright, your description of Chicago sounds very much like....

...Dallas/Ft. Worth...

and

...Denver.

Of course, D/FW has substantially fewer weather delays for flight ops. And the cost of living here is substantially lower, thus making the cost of labor lower.

So "most certainly," they have not yet chosen.

And all three are, as they say, "in the running."
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Sat Mar 24, 2001 8:19 am

Interestingly enough, Upright, your description of Chicago sounds very much like....

...Dallas/Ft. Worth...


yeah right.  Yeah sure

 Big grin

 
D L X
Posts: 11639
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Sat Mar 24, 2001 5:41 pm

Actually, I have to 100% agree. I actually thought I had misread it, and he was talking about DFW at first. (Denver is much further behind.) Point is, Chicago isn't much ahead.

And don't forget folks, the cost of labor is not an issue!!! They're not moving the manufacturing, just the business side. (Selling airplanes and rockets, buying materials.)

While I don't necessarily agree with the move, I understand it. Basically, Phil Condit is by virtue of being so close to the commercial biz, micromanaging the commercial side, and giving the other units less attention. The VP of the Commercial Division is staying in Seattle. That's what's important folks.

And finally, N766, you are smoking something.

 
Guest

RE: Has Boeing Gone Completely Off Their Rockers?

Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:15 pm

>And finally, N766, you are smoking something

Hey! I called it!

I said:
It won't happen that fast. Keyword: gradual. First its the 37/57 manufacturing, then...

And what just happened a couple days ago? 757 fuselage work is leaving- for Wichita.

Like I said before, keyword is gradual.

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