highliner2
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 1:26 pm

AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:31 pm

Air Transport World is reporting that AA has cancelled TWA's A318 order but is keeping the 717's TWA has now as well as 15 still on order. This is why I love AA. All Boeing baby!
Go Cubs!
 
GOT
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 6:44 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:36 pm

That's bad. I think the A318 would look absolutely great in AA c/s. And after all, AA could be using some more Airbuses, not only the old A300.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:42 pm

Just was on a new TW B-717 earlier this week..Nice plane. I believe AA will use them to retire the DC-9-30s ASAP at TW. Later we might see them in on regular AA routes. Look for most TW aircraft to stay with in the TWA, LLc for now as AA figures out the best way to smoothly intregrate TW into AA.
oh, and BTW, GOT, AA has a gentlemens agreement to buy Boeing for many years to come. Hundreds of manufacturing slots on the 737,757 & 777 line are already reserved for AA. There will be no more Airbusses other than the 35 on hand now.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Fri Mar 23, 2001 11:44 pm

This isn't so surprising. It makes a lot of sense from a commonality standpoint. The 717 is much more in line with AA's current fleet. I don't think it is an indictment of the A318.

BTW - Isn't AA supposed to be replacing their A300's soon?

EyeSky  Insane
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4905
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

AA A300s

Sat Mar 24, 2001 12:16 am

To the best of my knowledge- which mostly originates from this forum- AA has no plans to replace the A300 series in the near future. They work very well for what AA needs them for, transatlantic. It took AA a long time to find the niche that the Airbus fit into, but once they did they became quite happy. That's my understanding.

Randy
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:18 am

This'll be a blow to Airbus, but wait'll Air Canada or some other airline makes a substantial order for the A318.

The 717 would be a perfect replacement for the Fokker 100s in AA's fleet. Only problem though, is that the F100 fleet in AA is not that old.
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:27 am

Being that AA currently operates the MD-80, these 717s (MD-95s), will blend in with them because technically they are from the same family. Also AA engine mechanics will have no problem servicing the 717's RR engines.
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:35 am

This'll be a blow to Airbus - was the order that big? How many A318s are ordered by other airlines? It doesn't seem to me A318 is at any danger...
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

A300

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:39 am

Cannot wait to see the 717 in AA colors! the F100's are
not that old at all, so i don't think AA has plans for them to go anytime soon. A300's will remain in the fleet
for a long time to come, they work very well on there
caribbean routes. and the 3class A300's are going to
get a makeover. GO AA717!
"The low fares airline."
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:42 am

Sad that AA is not keeping the A318s ..

The Airbus A320s to prove to be better planes then B737s .. Sorrie ...

More AIrbus for US Airlines please !!

This will make Boeing work harder !!!

The better the competition the better planes we see

Sorrie pal but Airbus planes for me
Except i love Boeing 777s and vintage ones ..
 
Western737
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri May 12, 2000 5:45 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:55 am

RIX, wait a min? The order of A318 might be rather small to you. They have alot of F100 and older TWA's older DC-9 that they might consider to order more 717 to replace them in future. We never will know...

QantasA3XX,

How do you know that A320 proves better than 737? I never seen any perfect plane, yet.

Lastly, GO BOEING! AA made right decision.




 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 2:58 am

was the order that big? How many A318s are ordered by other airlines? It doesn't seem to me A318 is at any danger

Please keep in mind that TWA had orders for about 50 A318s - and that's out of about 160 total orders for the A318 by all airlines to date. That means roughly about $2 billion in lost sales to Airbus, which also has to worry about the A380 being a hugely expensive project to develop.
 
Logos
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:27 am

Quantas A3XX - The Airbus A320s to prove to be better planes then B737s .. Sorrie ... .

You know, this is what I hate about these Airbus vs. Boeing debates (aside from the horrid grammar and spelling) on these boards is that people just come out and say something like this without justification.

Both aircraft have pluses and minuses but, from an operator's standpoint, when everything is taken into consideration, I think the 737 is a marginally better choice. According to the figures I've seen, their CASM is better (particularly for the 737-800 vs. A-320). Continental and Southwest, the only US carriers to make a profit in the most recent reporting period, are both big 737 operators, which has got to tell you something.

That doesn't make the A-32x series bad aircraft (especially with the sweetheart deals Airbus is wont to give), but a statement like they prove to be better or "they're more economical" are wholly unsubstantiated. Keep the discussion factual.

By the way, the loss of this A-318 order does hurt Airbus. As was mentioned above, TWA comprised a significant portion of all A-318 orders and was the North American launch customer. Now only Frontier has them on order in North America, as far as I know. Whether anyone is hot to take TWA's delivery positions, especially with the economy doing what it's doing, I don't know. I don't see anybody clamoring for them like Midwest Express and AirTran were for the 717s if they became available.

Cheers,
Dave in Berlin

By the way
Too many types flown to list
 
Navion
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

AA A318 Fans

Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:35 am

I know some of you guys are disappointed that AA will not be getting the TWA ordered A318's. However it is important to remember, for the job AA would need the 717's, the A318's are simply too heavy. An A318 becomes more attractive the longer the sector. The 717 is not only much lighter, but it has in fact beat it's performance guarantee targets so significantly that Boeing actually increased the payload allowed. I do like the look of the A318 (especially with that taller fin), but AA has certainly not made a mistake. One final thing, if AA needs lower density longer stage length aircraft, it has the 738 which is extremely efficient with great long range performance.
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 4:04 am

Logos,

You know what I hate about these A vs. B wars (aside from what you already mentioned)? People twisting numbers in such a way that the product they prefer comes out best, no matter how old or rediculous those statements, numbers or facts are. Examples:

"Continental and Southwest, the only US carriers to make a profit in the most recent reporting period, are both big 737 operators, which has got to tell you something."
So they're profitable because they operate the 737? You can't possibly take this seriously, can you?

"...aircraft (especially with the sweetheart deals Airbus is wont to give)".
Oh man, this one's really old. Can you actually PROVE that Airbus gives more discount than Boeing?

Remember, let's keep this discussion factual, like you said...

Making up some facts to prove your point is just as bad as not providing any facts, which is what A3XX did (oh, and I don't agree with what he (Airbus A3XX) said or the way he said it...)

Greetings

 
jkelley480
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2000 10:03 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 4:14 am

Just a question: Why did TWA order both the 717 and the 318? Aren't they competing aircraft with similar capabilities? Just wondering.
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 4:17 am

Samurai 777, thank you for information - now I see Airbus has what to worry about.

Western737, the TWA A318 order is not "rather small" for me - after I knew the numbers. Which was the only purpose of my question...  Smile.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

Juul

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:21 am

It can't really be proved by any of us on this forum, but Airbus has been known to give large price cuts when selling aircraft.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:30 am

Finally, i can't stand Airbus.
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:31 am

CBA, the same did Boeing. Do you honestly believe, that any airline buys Boeing just because they are fan of Boeing? Remember the sweetheart deal of SQ, where Boeing offered to buy all A343?

As for the lost A318 deal: the A318 is not an aircraft with high margins, so the funding for the A380, or of any other Airbus project, is in no way in danger so far.

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 7:38 am

Cba,

Do you really think Boeing doesn't do that? That's just the way business is done, my friend...
Or do you really think AA, DL and CO would sign exclusivity contract without HUGE discounts being included.

Another thing: you say 'Airbus has been known to give large discounts...'. Where is it these rumors are beig spread? Right, here on these forums, because each time Airbus wins an order, you can bet that after a while some juvenile comes along with the good old 'Airbus probably gave them away' line. Is it really that hard to accept that airlines might actually choose to buy Airbuses because they believe they're the best for their needs, not just because they 'hand 'em out' like some people believe. Airbus is not a charity, you know...
 
BOEING747-700
Posts: 1356
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 5:21 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:21 am

I wish Air Canada would pick up on those lost A318 orders and use them for the Fleet Renewal.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

Juul

Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:31 am

"some juvenile" juul i do not think that age has anything
to do with posting something that someone does not agree with.
"The low fares airline."
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:37 am

JUST STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God!!!!!!... Airbus, and Boeing are Both Great Aircraft Manufacturers. They Both Fly, They Both make money, They Are Both Good Aircraft. WHY DO YOU PEOPLE MAKE A BIG ARGUMENT OVER THIS EVERY TIME AIRBUS OR BOEING IS MENTIONED IN THE SAME TOPIC... It is like you guys wait for it to show up and then say "YAY, AN AIRBUS VS. BOEING POST!!!" Just leave it alone. So AA wants to keep the 717s and not the A318s. Let that be for American to Debate about... I Think an Airbus A318 would look good in American Colors, But we cannot change their decision... JUST STOP FIGHTING. AIRBUS IS A GOOD COMPANY, Sure, They have their flaws, but so does Boeing. Do you expect Airbus to be Perfect? So just Stop this argument RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!  Pissed
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 10:13 am

GO AA!

They sure know a superior product when they see one.
 
Early Air
Posts: 624
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2001 6:53 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 10:23 am

AA is not all Boeing, they have those Fokker's + the MD-80's. This is what I expected from them though. I could not imagine AA with another airbus, I knew they would cancel that order. AA is the largest MD-80 operator in the world, they are very happy with that aircraft. The 717 is very similar to the MD-80, they can interchange pilots very easily, they only need a little coarse.

Rgds,
Early Air
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 10:31 am

Yes, I know that Boeing gives discounts too, but when I hear that Airbus was selling the A380 at 40% of list price to, that got me a little suspicious.
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 10:49 am

Ok, people, repeat after me.

I, Airliners.net user, swear to never again post information which is clearly biased towards Boeing or Airbus, or to post non-factual, pointless, or otherwise altered information. I also agree not to start or add to any stupid Boeing vs. Airbus wars, on price of death.

Johan- can we have some type of A.Net users agreement regarding these posts to shut people like QantasA3XX & Co. up?
 
baec777
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:01 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 1:47 pm

In my airline company, I will have Airbus, Boeing, Etc.... all fleets...

Please stop the Airbus/Boeing suggestions..... !!!!!!!


Baec777  Laugh out loud

P.S. Boeing & Airbus should becomes into 1 business, 1 location !!


 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 3:02 pm

No, if that happened, they would have a monopoly.
 
Logos
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 4:15 pm

Juul,

Sorry, because I don't live on these boards I missed the debate my post stirred. In re-reading my post, you make some good points.

Although I can't cite you chapter and verse, it's pretty well known (and I know a few people in the industry, and, yes, I know that sounds suspicious) that Airbus practically gave away some of the early A-32xs particularly to Northwest and United to gain a foothold in the market. Their deal with USAirways was a little less favorable when one considers the size of USs order. There is some business rationale for this in that no one really wanted to launch the A-320 (having an early one crash at the Paris Air Show didn't help) and they needed to make it very attractive (NW only acquires aircraft on the cheap, anyway, unless they have no other choice).

However, some Americans look at the fact that taxpayer money in Europe built Airbus, knowing pretty certainly (shall we call it 95%?) that these discounts were given and get a little angry at an uneven playing field.

Recently (the last five years), Boeing has begun to fight back on the same terms. Taking A-340s in trade for 777s is one way. The US governement has played along too (witness pressure put on Israel to get El Al to order the 777).

Strictly on the merits of the respective aircraft for the operators (purchase price aside), I've seen figures that clearly (though not by a huge margin) show that the 737NGs are cheaper to operate (no these figures are not on the internet so I can't link to them - sorry).

Now, we all know that purchase terms do matter to airlines as do politics, passenger appeal, etc. And the other factors can easily push the scale over to Airbus. For UA and NW, they both bought the A-32x at a time when there was no 737NG and now "in for a penny, in for a pound" so to speak.

The A-32x series are not bad aircraft at all, anyway. It's not like the difference we're talking about here is overwhelming. That's partly why the debate goes on. If you would have read more carefully, I said that the advantage wasn't that great. What I was responding to was the sort of statement that there was a clear difference in favor of Airbus. If there is a difference, it goes the other way, in my opinion. But, in any case, the difference (at least at this end of the market) isn't huge. If I ran an airline, I'd certainly listen to what sort of offer Airbus would make.

Cheers,
Dave in Berlin



Too many types flown to list
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 5:09 pm

When it comes to sweetheart deals, AirTran got the mother of all sweetheart deals. It has not been offically reported, but word is they are getting them at a cost of somewhere between $18-21 million each (market value is $32 million), and add to that Boeing helping AirTran to write off $230 million in debt payments adds up to one helluva deal. Gee it's great to be the launch customer! AirTran actually did a sale/leaseback transaction on several 717s to raise some capital last summer. TWA's price was rumored in the $21-23 million each range. American will probably order some additional aircraft once they see how fuel efficient they are (AirTran reports that the 717 burns 24% less fuel than the DC9-32 and 737-200. And these fuel burn savings has been very helpful in this time of higher fuel prices).
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sat Mar 24, 2001 11:33 pm

Good For AA. I would Like to see Airbus in their fleet, if nor for anything else, but for variety....Whatever. it doesnt matter, the 717 is good for fleet commonality and all, so thats good.
And please STOP with the Airbus Vs. Boeing Crap! Thats not what the original post was about so why do so many of you twist it into that form???
-AA777
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sun Mar 25, 2001 2:34 am

I hope they use the 717 on SFO-FAT routes. It would boost their image in Fresno by operating jet commuter flights.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
baec777
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:01 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:42 am

American should accept the the Airbus A318 orders with the B717 orders.... Take Both !!

Baec777  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:20 am

I think the 318 would look really cool in all metal finish so American should definitely get some.

Skippy
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sun Mar 25, 2001 3:29 pm

>I think the 318 would look really cool in all metal finish so American should definitely get some.

Gee, there's an intelligent statement. If how an aircraft looked was the only factor used in what was ordered by who, we'd all be flying on the Concorde.

The A318 just doesn't make sense for AA. They've got a huge Boeing fleet (the world's largest?), and adding in a new type now wouldn't do it. The B717 probably has an eventual role as replacer for the F100, the A318 is oveweight for the routes it's needed for. The B717 is the next step in the MD-80 line, meaning some commonality already exists. The A318...well...the only other Airbus in AA is the 300, and there is *no* commonality there.

Keeping the B717 makes sense...kind of. Keeping the A318 doesn't. Don't worry- those A318 slots will be gobbled up by European carriers and possibly NW (those DC-9s have to go sometime...). I personally don't think the A318 by itself is that great of a jet, but I think it'll sell 250-350 easily, and wind up a very useful aircraft for current A319/320/321 operators.
 
AeroGlobeAir7
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:09 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:12 pm

I read somewhere that in a poll taken internationally Boeing aircraft were preferred to Airbus aircraft. Although I do find the Airbus planes exotic (simply because they are foreign, and we don't get many of them here at Kansas City except for FedEx's A310s that are based here), I prefer Boeing to Airbus any day. I am glad that AA decided to keep TWA's 717s, I bet they'll utilize them on their flights from Dallas or Chicago to Kansas City. It seems to me like they might be better capacity wize than the MD-80s and 727s we get. The only Airbuses I really like are the A330s.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Andrew
AeroGlobeAir7
BABY BOEINGS ALL THE WAY!!!
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8007
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Sun Mar 25, 2001 11:27 pm

Very likely, AA will use the 717-200's on shorter mainline flights out of DFW, ORD and soon STL.

I really doubt that AA will fly the 712 out of SJC, given that the seating capacity is quite a bit lower than the Super 80's AA is currently flying out of SJC to other US West Coast destinations.
 
A330_DTW
Posts: 357
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:29 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:41 am

"All Boeing, baby!"?

I guess the MD-11's AA has are technically Boeings since the McD/Boeing merger...but those A300s and A310s certainly aren't manufactured in SEA. (Or have those planes already been retired?)
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:46 am

I'm interested in seeing which routes may use the 717. But then again, I'll bet they'll used to augment routes already used by the Fokker F100. Still, it'd be interesting to see if AA will start up new routes using the 717s.
 
Guest

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:05 pm

AA has no, and has never had any, A310s. They have ~30 A300s, which are used on Caribbean and transatlantic routes. IIRC, AA really likes them, and has no plans to replace them- but no plans to order any new Airbus jets.
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:21 pm

Western737
I flew on both A320s and B737s !! i know the difference !!

All the way Europeans !!!

But i respect Boeing !!
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: AA A318 Fans

Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:24 pm

I do agree that the Boeing 717-200 is a good plane !! I have no disrespect for Boeing planes ,its just that i prefer Airbus .But Boeing 717 has no sister thats the main problem .Unless Boeing comes out with the -100 or -300 i dont think the B717 suits AA . But like what u say B717 is light thats the big advantage
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:30 pm

I have nothing against Boeing
I like Boeing planes too
like B707 , B717 , B727 , B744 only , and B 777

its just that i dont like the B737 tats about it


Sorry if i offend any Boeing fans  Smile

The better the competition between both companies , the more exciting for aviation buffs like us  Smile
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:05 pm

Don't all Airbus aircraft have to be painted to preserve the bonds between the materials used to build them (or something like that?). There wouldn't be any shiny metal A318s anyway, Skippy208.

But Boeing 717 has no sister thats the main problem .Unless Boeing comes out with the -100 or -300 i don't think the B717 suits AA

What proof do you have the the 717 is a bad plane because it doesn't have a family of aircraft? Why don't you support your statement (in legible English, please) with some data, rather than an uninformed opinion. The 717 is a very efficient aircraft, and it has excellent revenue producing potential. The -300, if launched, would only increase the 717's advantages over it's competition.
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:37 pm

I'd rather dive into an empty pool than call American the largest Boeing operator. They are the largest McDonnell Douglas operator! The DC-9, MD-11, and DC-10 series aircraft were a part of the MDC line before Boeing killed them, therefore they are MDC jets, not Boeing. The 717 is the only MDC design that they are justified to put their name on.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

RE: AA Keeping 717s! Not A318s!

Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:03 am

TWA order:
25-A318
20-A319

www.airbus.com then look under the orders database that comes up in Acrobat.

They are very good positions in the production lines and I think all of those carriers looking for small a/c replacements are going to jump on these (for a discount).

So if AA is taking the 717 does this mean that Boeing will continue with the program? And that MEH will go for the 717 or will they be the one to take over TWA's Airbus orders? We should find out any day now.

Stay tuned
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet