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Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:24 am

Hey all, I noticed nearly everybody is unhappy with the Boeing 767-400. I flew on them twice with Delta and found them to be pretty cool.

Lets hear some reasons why everyone hates it.

Trans World Airlines
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:34 am

I think that they are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! They're beautiful and are by far the best looking 767s!!!

RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:36 am

Yes! I love the 767-400 as well as the -400ER. I agree with SESGDL.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:37 am

I don't think anyone is unhappy with the Boeings. These planes were designed to be tailored to specific airline's tastes. Delta airlines was a major contributor. There have been some comments about its range, but that will be soon corrected with the advent of the 767-400ER. No worries, its a well liked plane, as stated from people from CO and DL on this forum.

"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:47 am

Read my name! LoL.  Wink/being sarcastic One of my fav. plane in the world!


RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:49 am

God am I! I agree, I don't think nearly everyone in unhappy with it.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 9:01 am


I am not a "B767-400 lover"... but I believe it is a damn good airplane. Let's see what Boeing makes of the "Longer-Range B767-400ER" and future heavier, longer range derivatives. The B767 series is an excellent family!

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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 9:13 am

Hey! Count me in! 767-400 is so excellent plane, no question. I flew on DL 767-400 from LAX to SLC and it was the best flight ever.

Those people who are unhappy - they must not feeling well that day they fly.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 9:23 am

I have absolutely no problem with it. It blends all that is good from the 777 and puts it in the body of a 767. In future models, I personally would like to see a bit more power, but that is my ONLY complaint, if that is a complaint. Believe me, I fly them for a living, and they are some of the best birds I've ever had the privilege of flying.

RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 2:58 pm

I don't hate it at all. I cannot wait to go on a 764. May try to get on one in a couple of months. I like the 767 family of aircraft. They are not my favorites, but they are sure good planes and I would fly on one any time. I have already flown on the 763 twice this year. Nice plane.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 5:14 pm

Well, I would have to say the B767-400 is one of my favorite. I had the most incredible experience on my first flight onboard a DL 764. It was a crisp, clear blue sky this February morning in Washington when I boarded this aircraft. After taking a quick walk to the back, I proceeded to the cockpit to take a look. By now First class was becoming pretty full. The catering had just been completed and the doors were shut. Everyone now had taken there seats for our pushback. After about 7 minutes of taxiing, we turned onto runway 34L. After about 15 seconds the pilots released the brakes and full power to the engines. As we raced down the runway you could see for miles ahead of us, then the plane gracefully lifted off the runway and the nose climbed very high. After several minutes of climbing we began a right bank and headed Southwest towards Mt. Rainier. We climbed to about 11,000 ft and flew to the West of the awsome peak. On this clear day and the sun shinning, the snow and the scenery was breath taking. After passing by Mt. Rainier we were given clearance to climb to 36K/37K ft. and changed our direction to the east towards Denver. This awsome plane just glided to the higher altitude. As we were passing over the Rockies, the sun had just about set behind us and the lights from the big cities glowed through the clouds below. Night was now upon us and the stars above shinned very bright. We were now cruising at 41,000 ft. A very surreal feeling! After a very nice meal of Salmon, crab legs, some of Seattles best seafood, I took a stroll to check out the rest of the aircraft. The overheads were simular to the B777, curved which created much more room for overhead space. The seating was 2x2x2 in First class and 2x3x2 in coach. First class seats had PTV's. Comfortable, but I prefer the BuzElite seats myself. The coach section was huge, something like 40+ rows. I finally made it back to the front for an after meal desert of an assortmant of ice cream bars. By now we have just passed over St. Louis, Mo. Still covered by clouds, only the cities lights were glowing. As we approached Memphis, we began our decent. We were all talking about what an incredible airplane this is. After almost 4 hours in flight, we were given directions and altitudes to our final destination. We broke through the clouds around 7,000 ft. What a sight to come through the clouds and to see an MD11, 3 or 4 miles in front of us with the contrails coming off the wingtips. Now cleared for runway 9L, the gear was lowered and full flaps were now completely extended. Very neat to see the huge MD11 land infront of us with the smoke from its tires curl up. The voice in the cockpit was sounding off the altitude in referance to the runway. 50ft., 30ft., 20ft., 10ft., and then the feel of the main gear touching down after 4 hours from takeoff. The nose gear now touches down and the spoilers and reverse thrust from the engines now slow this 300,000lbs aircraft. Ground crontol now clears us to the section of the airport where "new" aircraft are delivered. We now enter the ramp area infront of one the worlds largest hangars. Ramp agents signal the pilots to shut down the engines and they proceed to hook up the towbar to the nose gear. Silence now takes over this big aircraft as we are slowly towed to the parking position. The aircraft now comes to a complete stop and air stairs are brought up to the 1L door. The door is now open and the cool crisp air of Atlanta Ga, fills the aircraft. After walking down the steps and standing next to this brand new aircraft, it is a very special moment. Knowing in 3 days, this plane will fly it's first of tens of thousands of passengers in its time, is amazing. This by far was the most enjoyable and incredible airplane trips I have ever taken. And a side note, new planes smell just like a new car. Hope you enjoyed this story and apologize if too winded. By the way, this was Delta's 12th B767-400 to be delivered, ship N839MH.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 9:03 pm

Both the 767-400 and the 757-300 are great airplanes. They will help any airline to make a profit! They won't have much technical problems due to the fact that they are either in the second or third generation. Further they are streched versions and this reduces pax miles costs dramatically.
There is just one problem: They sell bad! Hey, where are the European buyers of the 767-400. They just ignore this plane!
Does anyone has an explanation about this?
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Wed Mar 28, 2001 9:07 pm

Great post N839MH.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 1:40 am

Actually, I think that the Boeing 767-400 is a wonderful plane, but I think that Delta's interior is horrible. They are correcting many of the problems, but it is costing them a large amount of money to do so. The seats are so thick that they take up a significant amount of leg room. Delta placed the telephone and call button on the top of the armrest, so that if someone puts their elbow in the wrong place it calls the flight attendant. There are no PTV's in coach, even though Delta is using this plane on some cross-country flights. The lavatories are placed in such a way that there is no convenient place to wait for them. I felt like I was constantly in the way of the flight attendant as the only place to stand that wasn't blocking someone's view of the monitor was in the galley. Delta is fixing some of these problems, as I said, but not all.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 2:10 am

I can say I love the 764 but I think it's a nice aircraft. If I got the chance I would love to go with on of them.

Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 2:16 am

The pictures of them I have seen are beautiful. I am scheduled to make my first flight on one on April 21st. I hope that it is one of the ones with the redone coach seating, so that it will not feel so cramped. We will see! I am very excited about it though. It is a long flight to Hawaii. However, I intend to make use of the Empower outlets that are in all classes of service, by watching DVDs, and doing work on my laptop.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields

RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 3:26 am

The 767 is personally my favorite family and the 764 takes the best of the 777 into the 767.

However, I have heard complaints (mostly from European airlines) that the 767 and 757 are outdated designs. I've also heard this about the 747.

I don't know if this is just propoganda by Airbus but Boeing needs to address this in order to break into the European market.
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 4:51 am

Why the 764 has not sold well, especially in europe? I see a few of reasons:

First many european airlines are consolidating their fleets around the Airbus family selling their 767 family aircraft in favor of A330's. It doesn't make much sense in this environment to add a 764.

A330 is designed with more emphasis on the underfloor cargo area, more standard containers, greater capacity.

Range is limited in the current 764 because it was designed for trans Atlantic and US domestic market, as many have noted, specifically to suit CO and Delta.

Is it a good aircraft? I'd say yes. I have never flown it but did visit the first test aircraft as they were re-fitting it for delta and the new interior looked great!

Is it an outdated design? I'm not convinced that it is outdated, just because it is a bit old in years. The wing was originally designed to be extremely efficient and it is still efficient. Engines are not the latest generation, but that will change with the LR variant. The fuselage width is great for passengers, many who I have talked to who fly often, appreciate the 2-3-2 layout in coach. But the narrower fuselage is not as good for routes where underfloor cargo is a premium and the A330 can accomodate more.

So it is a mixed bag in my mind. The A330 is a great aircraft in many ways and the venerable 767 is having a tough time competing against an aircraft this is at the very least more glamouous because it is newer.


RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 5:08 am


RE: Alpa's Flight Evaluation

Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:33 am

This might be of some interest...

Flight Evaluation: Boeing 767-400ER

Air Line Pilot, February 2001, p. 22
By Capt. Terry L. Lutz (Northwest), Director, Aircraft Development and Evaluation Programs, ALPA Aircraft Design and Operation Group

The newest B-767 is not just a longer version of the original airplane. The truth is that the amount you can change the geometry of an airplane without making substantial changes to its overall configuration is limited. Boeing went right to the limit in some respects, added many cockpit features found in the B-777 family, and created the most refined addition yet to the Boeing product line.


Volume 70, Number 2, February 2001
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:51 pm

Im a huge supporter and fan of the 767-400 . I even think that it looks great on the new Delta livery . I think that the 767-400 is the best of all 767's and thats something big to say.
Puerto Rico'
Fly the Flag!!!!
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RE: Any 767-400 Fans?

Fri Mar 30, 2001 12:23 am

It is my hope that after digesting TWA, the AA fleet planners will submit a plan to the board to acquire a resonable fleet of 764ER's to replace the 762's, A-300's and add capacity to the old TW routes and AA routes.

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