vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 9:42 am

Vanguard's latest press release:

Building a Better Airline for Kansas City

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010328/cgw048.html

Had the chance to see the first of several MD80's yesterday at MCI. It is very nice. Great new livery and nice interior too (with buisiness class and even more legroom in both classes.) Can't wait to take a flight on one of them. Hopefully pictures will be posted here soon.
 
Guest

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 9:58 am

Hey VNGD, lookin' good. One question though. What is with VNGD stock recently. The other day it traded at 200 shares at once the entire day, and today it did 300. Whats going on?
 
Guest

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 10:00 am

Do you know where I could find pictures of the new Vangard livery? It is about time that they got a new one.
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 10:12 am

I think some were submitted to this site by at least one photographer within the past few days. Unfortunately there are none posted yet. Hopefully they'll be up soon.

As for NJ's stock, I follow it a lot and I have no clue, the trading seems pretty irregular lately. Some days several thousand shares traded some days only a few hundred shares.

As for the livery i wish I could explain it but it is very unique and hard to compare to another airline because I can't think of anything too similar. I guess we'll have to wait until pics are posted here or at NJ's website to see the new livery.
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 10:33 am

>>It is about time that they got a new one.

Not that I'm against shooting a new livery and new aircraft, but what do you mean it's about time? They just recently (what is it, 3-4 years?) changed liveries.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea since they seem to want to change their image. Hopefully get a chance to see the new MD-80 at LGA this Sunday.

Michael
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 10:50 am

I agree Mikephoto's, I do like the current 737 livery, it is much better than the original (almost all white) very bland livery reminiscent of when NJ started up. As of now the 732's are going to stay in the current livery and only the MD80s will have the new livery & business configuration. If you do see it at LGA I think you'll agree it is nice- get some good photos.  Smile
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 10:57 am

Maybe I should clarify:

The OLDEST livery (all white with small pinkish-red font)was bland.

The NEWER livery (blue-belly with large burgundy font) is better.

and the NEWEST livery (solid colored tail & rear, a ribbon of color and white front end with large red font) is Awesome and I think portrays a great new image of the future.
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:05 pm

Here is a link to Kansas City TV Station KCTV 5's news article & video clip including shots of the MD80.

http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.aspS=283606&nav=1PuZ
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:07 pm

Sorry that one didn't work, try this one:

http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=283606&nav=1PuZ
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:17 pm

Nice job! The livery looks great - lots better than old one. From what I could see on the clip, the interiors look pretty nice too. Potter is right - they do have to spend money to make money. Here's to their future.

As an aside -Vngd4me - I've seen your posts here and on other boards. Vanguard is fortunate to have employees such as yourself who demonstrate real enthusiasm for the company. Keep up the good work, we'll be flying you soon.
GB in KC.
 
chepos
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RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:19 pm

I hope Vanguard does well with this new facelift . I've never flown this carrier but I really like there spirit , and hopefully with there newest business plan the will start making a profit . By the way the new livery does look great and really smart on the Md-80 .
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
GoAllegheny
Posts: 310
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RE: Vanguard - Safety - FAA Incident System

Thu Mar 29, 2001 1:50 pm

I'll admit it - I've always stayed away from Vanguard. No good reason - just a worry that it was the next ValueJet waiting to happen. And I always wondered about maintenance, and the 737-200 fleet. Probably unfair. I've checked the FAA Incident System (http://nasdac.faa.gov/asp/asy_fids.asp), and two things struck me. First, Vanguard seemed to have a relatively high number of incidents in 98 and 99 - 16 versus 27 for much larger Southwest. But, in fairness, most were routine maintenance issues, and many of those seemed to relate to landing gear faults and problems. But second, the system has no data for 2000 or 2001, for Vanguard or any other airline. So, my questions are: Are Vanguard's maintenance practices good (e.g., does it hire out maintenance, etc.), and does anyone know why there is no 2000 or 2001 data on the FAA Incident System?
 
BH346
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 2:23 pm

The new changes at Vanguard look really nice. Those MD-80's look great with a nice interior, business class, and a nice livery. I really hope Vanguard will turn a profit soon because they're keeping fares low here in the Midwest. I hope to fly them soon.

BH346
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 2:26 pm

NJ's maintenance has been regarded as one of the best in the industry. Though the planes are relatively old, this effects on-time rates not safety. NJ has never had a serious injury or fatality. And uses its own maintenance employees in MCI and I believe also in MDW. Other cities are contracted if needed I believe. I'm not an expert on maintenance so perhaps someone else would be better to comment.

As for the FAA database I thought that was strange too, I don't think that they update it very often because I do rememember checking it several times last year & don't believe it offered much up to date info at that time either.
 
Guest

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 2:58 pm

That MD-80 looks great. I hope to see one on April 1.
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 3:35 pm

I know Vangard is planing on recieving more MD80s so I have two questions.
1. Is Vangaurd going to repaint their 737-200s and reconfigure the seats with first class?
2. Is Vangard planning on replacing all their 737-200s with MD80s?
 
nwa747-400
Posts: 1325
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 2:54 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 5:31 pm

Where are the MD80s coming from?

The look nice, even with the coveted "winged headrests" in both classes.

I wish them all the best.
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 5:49 pm

http://www.flyvanguard.com/pressreleasedetail.asp?ID=144 Here is their press release for when they announced that they were getting the MD-80s. They are firm on 6 from Pegasus Aviation and have options for a further 2. I don't who the planes flew for before Vangaurd though.
 
Guest

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:00 pm

Where are the pics for these planes?? Anyone here know??
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 12:42 am

Go Vanguard!!!!

If anyone can't play the video or doesn't have the time, I captured some stills from it and made a quick web page: http://www.geocities.com/mls515.rm/vanguard/

Since they are from a compressed video, I must warn you that they are of low quality, but good enough for you to get a good general idea of what the new MD-80s look like.

I must say I like the livery that's now on the 732s
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Aric Thalman

better than then new MD-80 livery, but really, I could care less. Long live Vanguard Airlines.

mls515
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 12:52 am

No pics posted here yet but you can see some shots on the link posted above at KCTV5. Watch the video for some pretty good interior & exterior shots.
In case you missed the link above- Here it is again:
http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=283606&nav=1PuZ

As for the 732's no final word on a new paint job or reconfiguration yet. I believe there will be a mixed fleet for quite some time but the oldest of the 732s are being phased out.
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 12:55 am

Thanks Mls515 for posting that.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 1:17 am

No problem. "Capturing" sounds complicated, but all it involves is a picture editor (edit -> paste) and the "Print Screen" keyboard key. Had to view the video on full screen mode to make it work though.

BTW, put you on my respected users list because I like you and your airline.

later,

mls515
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 1:45 am

Now there are some higher quality photos on the page, courtesy of Vngd4me:

http://www.geocities.com/mls515.rm/vanguard/


mls515
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
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RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 2:08 am

God speed to Vanguard. If they are still in the position, as CEO Potter put it, to "spend money to make money," then they have possibilities. On balance, I'd say NJ is here to stay. However, there are pluses and minuses to the new strategy.

First and foremost is the reality that Kansas City is not a huge business center like New York (JetBlue) or Atlanta (AirTran), the two airlines the revamped Vanguard brings to my mind. This has two implications, I think, for a low-fare airline that wants to prosper at a a large-end medium-hub airport where other carriers have failed.

One, the high-yield O&D base is not huge. Installing a business class is risky for a carrier based at MCI. AirTran's business class has the enormous Atlanta corporate base to draw from. Not to mention an already-established reputation for low-fares and numerous destinations (35 is very good for a low-fare carrier today that isn't WN). I haven't read the details of Vanguard's business plan, but when I lived in the KC area ten years ago, I don't remember it being a big corporate center.

Second, 150-seat aircraft like the M80 (142, I think as NJ configures) are big for the KC market. JetBlue has the gargantuan metro New York catchment population to fill its 160-seat A320's. Part of New Braniff's failure at MCI was attributed to its overuse of 150-seat 727's. Again, I haven't read Vanguard's business plan, but MD-80s are ambitious aircraft. They're probably going to need some connecting traffic to keep M80's full. As one person on the KCTV story said, Vanguard isn't very visible elsehwere, so they'll need to really aggressively promote themselves in their other markets. 717s or 73G's, it seems to me, might be more suited to the KC market.

Again, God speed to Vanguard, may they succeed in becoming a strong low-fare airline that can anchor a reasonable fare structure in the KC market for the long term. The new paint scheme is snazzy too. But they'll need to overcome the obstacles discussed above to do it.

Jim

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
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RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 3:24 am

DCA-ROC - have to dispute a couple of points. Loads on all airlines out of MCI are surprisingly good. There are some pretty major corporations based out of here (Sprint, Hallmark Cards, H&R Block) as well as a strong corporate presence with companies like Harley Davidson, Ford, GM, and many others. If Vanguard can get some corporate contracts with these "players", they may stand a good chance. IMHO, the business class will help them to compete with Midwest Express, and they do not go head to head with Southwest in very many markets, and I have noticed they are no longer offering those "despairation" $29 fares. The ads all have fares lower that the "other guys" requiring only a 3 day advance purchase, but still at a price that may allow them to make money. I think that Potter's mark is just now becoming visible.
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: Vanguard- 1st MD-80 Is Ex-Continental

Fri Mar 30, 2001 4:46 am

Looking at the excellent photos provided by Mls515 and Vngd4me, the reg appears to be N16802. That is an ex-Continental MD-82.

Can't wait to get shots of it at LGA.

Vngd4me -- can you email me privately, need to ask a questions. mikephotos@hotmail.com

Michael
 
ABQ757
Posts: 269
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RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 4:59 am

Sounds like Vanguard is on the up and up. I remember when I first saw Vanguard for the first time at DEN. It's too bad that Southwest has the ABQ-MCI route pretty much taken, because I would love to see Vanguard at ABQ.

Gabe
 
ScottB
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RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 6:28 am

I agree that the new plane looks nice - but it also looks a lot like National Airlines' livery IMHO. And I think they made a good decision in getting out of MDW (and scaling WAY back on MDW-MCI) and focusing on routes where they won't be competing with WN or other large carriers.

All that said, I still think they've got a tough road ahead of them. No one has made a hub at MCI work (well, except Southwest, but they "don't have hubs.") Braniff II failed, Eastern failed, and USAir failed. Moreover, YX is also building up at MCI, and will be flying three of the same routes as NJ (MSY, ATL, LGA) while WN competes on flights to MDW, LAS, LAX, and indirectly SFO (OAK). And there are few markets large enough for an MD-80 or 737 which don't already have non-stop service to MCI.

I don't doubt that Kansas City has significant business traffic, but to take local business from YX and WN, they will have to provide better value. And unfortunately, because of the terminal design, MCI isn't the most convenient place to change planes.
 
TWFirst
Posts: 5752
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 5:30 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:11 am

I'm bummed Vanguard is leaving MSP. My company flies them a lot to our plant in KC.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 7:37 am

Goingboeing--good point about Midwest Express. I forgot about their MCI buildup. A business class--especially one that features chocolate chip cookies :+)--would be very helpful in drawing some of that market.

Vanguard may want to consider offering multiple daily frequencies on large markets like SEA and SAN where WN only offers one or two flights. Business customers would find that attractive.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 9:33 am

The MD-80 in the picture is definitely an ex-CO plane with that registration. I believe some of the -80's are coming from Reno's fleet, which are now with AA. I am not exactly sure. That was speculation. NJ will be serving SFO non-stop with one of the new aircraft, and since they would be the only non-stop in that market, I would fly with them. YX was supposed to do that same route, then backed out. If NJ can get the people were they need to go non-stop, more power to them.
 
CactusA319
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RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 9:38 am


It's great that NJ is opening up new routes to major buisness markets (i.e. LGA and SFO) but they're going to have to offer more frequencies. They only have 2 dailies to LGA and just 1 to SFO. The higher yield pax is always going to want more options along with value and service.


 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 2:51 pm

I like the new Vanguard livery, it looks rather professional. The 737 livery just looks old and tired. Vanguard has really taken a beating at ATL, due to AirTran. Prior to AirTran starting service to MYR, the only other airline flying there was ASA. Once AirTran entered the market, it was all over for Vanguard. Then AirTran returned to PIT, one of the other cities NJ served from ATL, same story. The only route NJ flies out of ATL now is to MCI. AirTran is also responsible for Vanguard's leaving of MSP. AirTran killed them on the MDW-MSP route, and with AirTran getting ready to do nonstop to MSP from ATL, Vanguard knew their days at MSP were numbered. Vanguard is the second low-fare airline to introduce business class on their new a/c. Frontier is going to have business class on the A319 also. Adding business class makes an airline more attractive to business customers. It took AirTran nearly a year to get good load factors in business class, but are doing quite well with it now. Vanguard will have to do a program similar to AirTran's in order to gain pax. AirTran's $25 business class upgrade is quite popular, and I think NJ will have to do something similar.
 
roberson
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 2:57 pm

DCA-ROCguy- According to the Vanguard press release, they plan to configure the MD-80s with 118 coach and 14 business class seats. The number of coach seats are actually less than the 120 on their 737s, so it shouldn't be more difficult to fill them now than it was before. Business class will probably be effective in bringing in more profit without having to fill a larger number of seats per aircraft (compared to having made an all coach configuration), while competing with Midwest Express. The idea to upgrade the reservations system and inflight service also looks like a plus. I'd hope for an improved load factor in the future since there will be fewer frequencies in unprofitable markets.
 
Logos
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2000 10:47 pm

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 3:15 pm

That is one sharp looking livery - well done! I hope they do well (at least better than everyone else who's tried to put a hub at MCI). Time will tell.

Cheers,
Dave in Berlin
Too many types flown to list
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Fri Mar 30, 2001 4:52 pm

Roberson--thanks for the reminder on NJ M80 seat configuration. You hit another very important point: reducing flights to less popular destinations. This will allow Vanguard to put more planes on the densest routes.

Business travelers want at least three, preferably four or five frequencies a day so they can get home for afternoon work, or dinner etc. AirTran flies at least three daily frequencies to most, maybe all destinations. That's probably part of why their business class has been successful. It is offered on a businessman's schedule. To denser routes that can support more than three flights a day, AirTran flies more frequencies. But the bare minimum is there.

The ability to build business flier loyalty with frequent flights will be a key element of Vanguard's potential success, in my view. As will a good, probably segment-based, frequent-flyer program.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sat Mar 31, 2001 8:27 am

Here are a few more shots, kinda tiny but you get the picture:

http://www.flyvanguard.com/home.asp
 
vngd4me
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 7:25 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sat Mar 31, 2001 8:45 am

 
AeroGlobeAir7
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:09 pm

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sat Mar 31, 2001 9:26 am

Vanguard has three photos of the new MD-80 in the livery at their website, www.flyvanguard.com. It's a cool livery! But I liked the old one too!
 
AeroGlobeAir7
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 12:09 pm

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sat Mar 31, 2001 10:01 am

I wonder if Northwest competition on the MCI-MSP route was part of the reason for their pull out as well. I know the two have been competing on the route for a while, but I wonder if Air Tran entering the ATL-MSP market might have helped. Thus cutting away the need for ATL-MSP flights via Kansas City on Vanguard. I would have to agree with GoingBoeing partially about the business class setups, with Sprint, Hallmark, and H&R Block among others with headquarters here we do probably get a pretty good amount of business class service. About the capacity of the MD-80 and the MCI routes, I think it should do fine. With AA, DL, USAirways, and others using the MD-80s to MCI I think there is no problem, especially since Vanguard will be offering low fare service on some of the same routes those airlines offer flights on for normal prices. Those comments surprised me the most because of United and Delta's morning 757 service to ORD and ATL respectively. The other day at MCI I saw 2 United 757s and a DL 757 all at the terminals, so I doubt the MD-80s capacity will be a problem.
 
roberson
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sat Mar 31, 2001 5:44 pm

Also, it looks like fares on NJ are a little bit higher than the competition (Frontier, United) DEN-MCI, so it looks like they are filling planes (at least on this route). Probably a lot is due to connecting traffic. Hopefully, these improvements will bring some profits in the future. Does anyone know how Vanguard is doing financially as of late?
 
Guest

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sun Apr 01, 2001 6:33 am

Yeah, I'm against the new Business Class, I think that unless its only slightly cheaper and with very few extras it will work, but if they try and charge a lot and make it a real first class section, than Midwest will eat them up. But, they might get higher yields and pax looking for better than WN, but not as pricey as Midwest.

Livery isn't my style, but I wish them the best and would fly them if I ever need a low-fare transcon or find myself on my way to KC.

rgds
russ
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sun Apr 01, 2001 6:52 am

I must say, until this revamp, I had given up Vanguard for dead....BUT this looks like a Management Team who is ready to get serious about making this work. Look at AirTran...after the ValuJet nightmare, even after the AirTran merger, the consensus was "they'll never make it". Reactions to Business Class were "a low fare carrier can't make it work"...and now...AirTran will be one of the only airlines to post a profit this quarter, and exercising options on 35 more 717s (a total of 85).

Good for Vanguard, I hope they kick ass.

Travis
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1705
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

To Build A Better Airline Requires Flights To IAH

Sun Apr 01, 2001 8:19 am

...and IAD.

Bums on seats, lads, bums on seats...
 
roberson
Posts: 168
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2000 10:05 am

RE: Vanguard- Building A Better Airline

Sun Apr 01, 2001 5:41 pm

Looks like there will be some extra legroom on Vanguard's MD-80s. I calculate something like two rows missing from the typical configuration for 142 pax. (14 first, 128 coach).