DeltaSFO
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Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 8:20 am

Finally! They've seen the light in Atlanta!

Delta Air Lines has finally changed its nonrev policies in order to stop giving away the store to employees of stingy airlines.

Delta has announced that effective immediately it will reciprocate embargoes on nonrevenue travel by employees of carriers which embargo Delta nonrevs. This is aimed mostly at Skyteam partner Aeromexico, which embargoes nonrev travel quite frequently. However, this policy will apply to all carriers.

In addition, Delta is introducing a new non-revenue passenger boarding priority code to the system. This code restricts certain nonrevenue passengers to boarding in the coach class cabin only. This is consistent with what Delta nonrev passengers would experience when traveling on those carriers. Employees of the following carriers will be restricted to coach only when traveling on Delta:

AM
VH
AF
JM
LY
KE
AT
TR
SA

More carriers will be added in the future.

Finally... we will treat other carrier's nonrevs as we are treated. Delta is no longer the airline that gives away F/J class to anybody and everybody.

I am elated.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
ILUV767
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 9:02 am

So...since I would be a non-rev from UA, I could still get Business Elite...right?
 
ben88
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 9:13 am

Even though this sucks since I work for AF, I think it's the right move for DL. I don't see why an airline should give away their premium product to non-rev passengers from other airlines. It makes no financial sense.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 9:27 am

About time IMHO.

Speaking as both a non-rev and a Silver Medallion!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
N839MH
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 9:46 am

Yes, if you are a UA employee traveling as a non-rev on DL, you will be able to sit in BuzElite if available.
Solodude!
 
tsully
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 10:23 am

As far as UAL employees on DL go, it was my understanding that in order to be eligible for Biz Elite, we had to purchase id 75's. So last time I went on Delta, I think I had an id 90 or 95 which I was told would only get me y-class. When I got Biz Elite, I was surprised as I had been told that it was not possible without an id 75. I can see the sense in this ideology, but now I'm not sure what the policy is.
Thanks for any clarification.
tsully
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
DeltaSFO
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 1:58 pm

Nice to see positive responses to this development. I see it as an important step by Delta towards advocating for us, the people of Delta, as our travels lead us to fly other carriers. It is not fair that we cannot even fly AM on certain days and cannot ever get upgraded on AM when we are able to fly, yet an AM employee can standby for BusinessElite on any given day of the year. And AM is our Skyteam partner!

Thanks, Uncle Leo!

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 3:32 pm

Alright here comes another ignorant question from the non-aviation industry person. What is a nonrev really? This post brings me to the understanding that any airline employee from any US airline can fly free on any other US airline with some sort of "ID90" when space is availible on the flight. What is this ID90, who gets them, how? If the system is too complicated to explain just a few little basics would really help me out here!
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:10 pm

An ID90 stands for "Industry Discount 90%". Most airlines have "interline agreements" with other carriers so that their staff can travel on the other carrier by paying just 10% of the published fare. This percentage may vary from carrier to carrier.

There are many types of IDs, and they all have a number at the end which denotes the discounted percentage. So an ID90 is 90% discount, an ID75 is 75% discount, etc... The only exception is the ID00 (very rare, but oh so precious) which stands for a 100% discount.

All of these collectively are called "NRSA" (Non Revenue Space Available) fares. This means that you ONLY travel if there is space available on the aircraft. If there are more NRSAs than spots available, the NRSAs are ordered by what is called the "S priority" which ranges from S1 to S5 (there are also other categorizations, but most NRSA travel falls under S codes so thats all I am gonna explain here). S1s get priority over S2s who trump S3s and so forth. Most interline ID90 travel is with S4 or S5 priority, and most "pass riding" (travelling on your own airline) is S3 priority. Usually airlines give their employees S2 passes as incentives, and occasionally give S2 passes to interline staff who they have a close working relationship with (for example, my dad had a contact with Alitalia who invariably produced S2s for us).

The holy grail of non-rev tickets are the ID00PS passes which are essentially completely free POSITIVE SPACE passes on another carrier. If you want a seat, its yours for free and they will bump a revenue passenger for you. These are usually reserved for senior management only. I have personally only travelled once on one of these (Tower Air on JFK-AMS-BOM) - but my dad has snagged a few for himself over the years. They are used very sparingly, unless your name is Warren Jensen (sorry Delta folks, couldn't resist that potshot!).

That sums up most of the regularly used non-rev terminology!  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
tsully
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SJC>SFO

Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:21 pm

B747-437B did a good job of explaining the basics of NRSA travel... so I won't reiterate.

It is common for say, an employee of Airline X to purchase an ID 90 or even ID 95 on Airline Y, but this standby ticket may only be valid for y-class travel. If the employee of Airline X wants to have a shot at first class on Airline Y, he may have to purchase an ID 75, thus paying 5% or 10% more than y-class for that luxury.

Hope this isn't all to confusing  Smile

regards,
tsully
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 5:10 pm

B747-437B and Tsully: thanks for all the info!... just what I was looking for. One more question though, regarding the ID75s or such for getting in to Premium cabins, are these 75% discount on the business class fare? Or the coach fare? And also, is the ID90 discount on the regular, full walk up fare?
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 5:20 pm

Usually the ID90 calculates from the full Y fare, but some kindly carriers allow you to calculate it from a lower unrestricted variant (such as a Y8 or a Y26).

You *can* calculate your ID fare from a Business or First Class fare if you like, and that usually gives you standby priority for that fare class. However, I don't know of any suckers who do this regularly (with the exception of the "protected J/F ID90" tickets which is a special case only issued by some Asian carriers).

Some carriers don't allow interline staff into premium cabins PERIOD. Others like DL will put you up front regardless of fare paid. Now DL is cracking down and saying that if you don't put our employees up front, we won't put yours there either. And thats the whole point of this new policy.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
dash8tech
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 8:42 pm

DeltaSFO: Errrm, at Horizon we don't have the luxury of offering you first or biz class, however our seats are all leather  Wink/being sarcastic

Anyway, flew Biz-Elite to MAN via ATL from PDX last year round trip and had a great time, is this out in the future then??

Cheers.
 
AF Cabin Crew
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Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 8:51 pm

I don't know why we are getting this rating at Air France as I always see Delta passengers in l'Espace Affaires while our own employees are travelling in Tempo.
For the Embargo dates I can't comment as I don't know what AF is telling you but I can certainly tell you that all Delta nonrevs are travelling in the front when there is room. the only time I saw them in tempo was because there was no romm what so ever in both First and Business.

It is great that your airline give you the priority over other airlines unlike ours who has always let DL nonrevs travel in Business class and not its own employees.

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew.


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n175dz
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 9:01 pm

Another semi-ignorant question!

Will this have any effect on Friends and Family people travelling on S4 pases (like me!). I've had my fare share of luck getting biz-elite over the last couple of years. Is this all going to change?

Thanks in advance,

Phil.
 
PHLflyer
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 10:47 pm

B747-437B did a great job of explaining the non-rev concept. ID00's are rare, but not if you are in the right segment of the industry. I worked in the sales office for a small International Airline. We could get ID00's on US, DL, CO, AA, BA, SR and pretty much any airline with offices in the area. We would of course reciprocate in turn.

At Christmas, I would make up letters for our Director of Sales to send out asking other airlines to exchange free passes for our Christmas Party. We would usually get about 20 letters back. At our Christmas party, we would give out the free passes. There were only 5 of us, so everyone received at least 3-5 passes.
 
A330_DTW
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 10:54 pm

This doesn't bode well for employee relations in regards to the Skyteam alliance.

KLM does not upgrade NW nonrevs on their flights, unless it's the ONLY thing available. However, we at NW still upgrade KL employees (all airline employees) if space is available and if they are dressed appropriately for the class of service.

Our thinking is that if we treat them well, they, in turn, will treat us better. Is it working? Not yet!
 
The Ticketor
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Tue Apr 03, 2001 11:41 pm

Skyteam doesn't sound like a team with these strange rules. I understand why DL want's to do something about it.

For the interested, there is also another kind of ID-ticket widely used (at least here in Europe), the so called ZED-ticket. ZED stands for Zonal Employee Discount. The ZED fare is not calculated as a percentage (as the ID90 and such), but depends on the mileage of your trip. There are eight different zones, and three levels of fares (low, medium and high).

Carriers decide what fare levels (L, M or H) they give other employees, but H is usually reserved for parents, and only L and M fares used by the employee.
Fare examples (in USD):
Zone 1 0-450 miles L 13, M 19, H25
Zone 2 451-750 miles L 16, M 25, H36

To this, all applicable taxes must be added. This is SA tickets only (space available, iow stand-by). Boarding priority depends on which airline you work for, seniority and job title. My airline has around 60 (!) different combinations of ticket types and priority codes.
 
wilcharl
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 2:32 am

Regardless of the carrier we work for, shouldnt we treat each other as family, and as our own. I understand DL's disapointment with the unfiarness, but what does it cost a carrier to move someone up into a premimum cabin? if there is space avaialbe, and they are traveling on an id-90, the 10% they are paying more the covers the cost of the meal, and since BEvERages are free on international flts, tahts not a factor.. am i missing something here?!?!?! Even VS was going to move me up into a premium cabin until someone walked up and bought a full fare ticket (that gurantees them at least premium economy on VS) which made the preimum economy cabin full and they had to move a premium economy pax to upper class which took my seat from upper class and moved me back to steerage where i had a wonderful flight in an exitrow with no one next to me.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 2:57 am

speaking of Delta, listen to this story: I was going to work as a bagsmasher for a company that does contracted work for Delta in DEN, but i decided to work for F9 instead when i found out Delta didn't offer any flight benefits to their contracted employees there. The funny thing was, Delta gave F9 employees 1 Y class round trip every year! F9 employees who never touched Delta's aircraft got more benefits than those who actually worked for them! How stupid is that?
 
OH-LGA
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 3:13 am

Ahh! The Ticketor! You beat me to it! Big grin I was reading about that in the okay magazine you sent me...

according to the article it also says that airlines such as United and Continental have signed up for this ZED program recently... personally to be it makes a lot of sense than just writing out separate tickets when you can write one ticket for the distance of the trip... must work like a charm.

And I congratulate Delta as well on cracking down on AM and other stingy airlines, but I still believe that Delta is one of the best airlines when it comes to non-rev travel...

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 3:17 am

Of course, from a consumer perspective, this means very little.

DeltaSFO - care to comment who gets priority for the operational upgrade now? The Medallion on an L fare or the AeroMexico interline staff? I think I know the answer.

Simply Good Business.  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DeltaSFO
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AF Cabin Crew

Wed Apr 04, 2001 7:25 am

I don't know why we are getting this rating at Air France as I always see Delta passengers in l'Espace Affaires while our own employees are travelling in Tempo.
For the Embargo dates I can't comment as I don't know what AF is telling you but I can certainly tell you that all Delta nonrevs are travelling in the front when there is room. the only time I saw them in tempo was because there was no romm what so ever in both First and Business.

It is great that your airline give you the priority over other airlines unlike ours who has always let DL nonrevs travel in Business class and not its own employees.


AF Cabin Crew...

I knew somebody would bring that up sooner or later. Delta employees are sometimes upgraded into C class on AF when those seats are *Delta block seats*... in otherwords, seats that Delta actually buys from AF and sells as its own. Even when that happens, we don't always get upgraded. Not too long ago, I was in ATL, preparing to fly out on the AF 777. I thought it would be fun to find out what our Skyteam partner AF's 777 was like. I checked the load in Deltamatic and it showed several Delta block seats available in C class. Sure enough, I rode across the Atlantic in Business. Wonderful meal and service, by the way! On the return, there were also several DL block seats available in C, yet I was handed a boarding pass for seat 44E or something like that. When I asked the gate agent casually, "So Business filled up, huh?," she answered back snottily, "We never get upgraded, so why should you?" Disappointed, I handed the boarding pass back and flew home in BusinessElite on DL145.

Now, if I was flying on, say, AF from LAX to PPT, a flight on which Delta does not buy seats or codeshare, AF policy would be to seat me in Y class. If Y class is full but C or F are not, AF policy would be for me to sit in the terminal and watch as the aircraft pushes back. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just repeating the information that I've been given as a Delta CSA.

On AM, it's even worse. Whether there are Delta block seats available up front or not, they don't care. You as a DL/AF/KE nonrev will end up in the last 5 rows of the aircraft. Guaranteed.

At least KE will give you a decent seat in coach class.

Please understand, I have nothing against these carriers, and nothing against flying coach when it's the only thing available. All I'm saying is that I work hard, and I am entitled to enjoy my travel privileges to the fullest extent possible. When Delta buys seats in C class and those seats aren't always allocated to Delta nonrevs, that's unfair, wouldn't you say?

When Delta doesn't buy seats on a certain flight and the operating carrier's policy is to seat nonrevs in coach class only, that's nobody's fault. I, and apparently the majority of DL employees who nonrev a lot on our Skyteam and codeshare partners, just don't think it's fair that our management doesn't reciprocate.

B747-437B....

LOL... Simply Good Business? Let's not go there... Big grin

Not too long ago, on our HNL flight, we upgraded some Medallion members on L fares when we were oversold in back. I hope that answers your question. Big grin

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 7:31 am

Ssshhhh! You upgraded an L fare! Don't let *them* find out!  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DeltaSFO
Topic Author
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 1:36 pm

B747-437B......

Even worse... I didn't even collect segments or upgrade certificates from them! Completely free upgrades just because it was full in back! That's what the poor guys get for flying us a lot. Big grin

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
nycank
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 2:54 pm

Operational upgrade on a U fare ! from Europe (I'm not gonna say which fl. no. ) I nearly fainted..... For a few minutes I forgave Christine & Kevin for the SWUs  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.
 
tsully
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SJC>SFO

Wed Apr 04, 2001 4:14 pm

>B747-437B and Tsully: thanks for all the info!... just >what I was looking for. One more question though, >regarding the ID75s or such for getting in to Premium >cabins, are these 75% discount on the business class >fare?

Usually an id 75 will make you eligible for first class. I actually don't know about biz class. Of course, these statistics vary from airline to airline. Perhaps most airlines require an id 75 for biz class as well. I just don't know the norm for biz.

>Or the coach fare? And also, is the ID90 >discount on >the regular, full walk up fare?

I believe that is correct. But if anyone knows better, please advise.

As everyone has already mentioned, each airline has it's own policy regarding NRSA travel.

Another point to be made is the fact that ultimately the gate agent determines where you sit. Even if you are required to have an id 75 for first class but only have an id 90, if you have a nice agent, they can and will put you in first class even against company policy. Let's face it, (all you fellow NRSA travelers) although they shouldn't, gate agents CAN (they have the ability) override what their computer tells them and put someone with seniority = 11 June 1996 on board over someone with seniority = 21 April 1982.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no regular method of checking the procedures of gate agents when it comes to NRSA travel. (Other than pestering them every time they call someone ahead of you) Correct me, someone, if I'm wrong.

I think it would be great if to one side of the ticket counter was placed a screen with all listed NRSA's and their seniority. That way we could tell without asking the agent if everyone was being processed fairly.

On the other hand, if agents were cracked down on, the ‘friendly’ agents would no longer put you in first or biz class if you were not properly qualified.

All of the above just to say the gate agent has the final say on where you sit -- that is if you're fortunate enough to even get on the plane.

I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
akelley728
Posts: 1964
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Wed Apr 04, 2001 10:25 pm

DeltaSFO:

My brother works for Delta Global Services, and as of May 1st DGS employees get full travel privileges as regular Delta employees.

Since his managers aren't telling him or his fellow employees much at the moment, He was curious as to whether or not Delta employees get buddy passes that they can give out to friends/extended family. If they do, how many do you get per year? I assume it's based on some sort of seniority level, no? What is the priority level of people who fly on buddy passes? Do they work like ID75s/ID90s?

Thanks for the response...
 
DeltaSFO
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AKelley728

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:01 am

Wow... I didn't know they were going to give DGS full travel privileges. Are you sure he's going to get unlimited S3's in North and South America?

Anyway, if that is correct, then your brother will get 8 Friends and Family Travel Certificates to give away. They are for S4 priority and are based on the employee's employment date. You pay what's called a yield fare, which is a percentage of the average yield on a given city pair. How they calculate it is one of Atlanta's many secrets.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
akelley728
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:46 am

DeltaSFO:

If I was to venture a guess, I would say yes. What he told me is all he have to do is show his 'Delta Card' anytime at the counter and they'll let him on if there's room (I'm sure he's oversimplifying this, but anyway). Would this be considered S3 priority?

Do the 'Friends and Family Travel certs' you mentioned require that he, as a Delta employee, travel with that person? Or can they be truly given away? Their current system goes like this: he was earning 2 certs certificates for every 400 hours he worked, to a maximum of 10 in a year. These certs were good only for the employee, parents, spouses, and children OR if it was a friend or extended family he would have to accompany that person. i.e. if I, as his brother wanted to go somewhere he would have to go with me.

These certs that he was getting under the old system sound alot like the Friends and Family certs as you mentioned, as my parents are taking two of these to go to Florida at the end of the month; regular fare for BWI-RSW is $227, they had to pay something like $80 (incl. taxes) for each ticket. I assume this is the yield fare for that city pair.

Sorry for all the questions regarding the Friends and family certs, I of course would have quite an interest in these being his brother and all  Big grin

Oh, one last thing... I traveled Delta for the first time in a couple of years last week. I was fortunate to get on an L1011 (ship 738) for my DFW-ATL segment. Anyway, wanted to let you know that except for one slightly rude gate agent in Newark, every employee I encountered was very nice and accomodating. which I know is difficult now because of the headaches the Comair strike is causing. Hope the strike isn't causing you too much trouble!
 
Delta15
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 5:32 am

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 5:11 am

I think it was tsully who said that the gate agents have the last say on who gets on and sits where. This is so true, as I checked out a flight that my brother took from europe last week, and was sitting in like 22D according to the deltamatic site, and confirmed by my bro when he arrived. The thing was that three different S4 passengers with all different last names(all of which sounded like the native language he was arriving from) were seated in Business Elite seats. I was really pissed, and my bro was kinda upset. It wouldnt of been so bad if it were a domestic flight or even a transatlantic nightime flight, but a daytime 8 hour flight in deltas 33 inch pitched coach seats... I dont think so.

Well as for the codeshare partners situation, does that mean that they cant fly first on their codeshare flights as well? Also is there any airline that we can fly F/C C/C on still? Gee I sure miss the days of business on swissair, and sabena, and all of the other codeshare partners.
 
tsully
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DeltaSFO

Thu Apr 05, 2001 5:38 am

At UAL, we have "buddy" passes (companion passes used for friends). One of the many catches is the fact the employee must be traveling with the companion in order for the companion to ride on the employee's seniority. Is this so with DL? Also, buddy pass holders may not travel international f-class unless the employee is traveling with them.

One of my neighbors is an FA for DL. From her perspective, it sounds like DL offers a much better companion pass system than does UAL.

In many cases, it’s cheaper for my friends to buy a discount ticket than to use a companion pass. Only when they get into biz or f-class can you realize the savings.

I'll be incredibly happy if UAL ever reinvents their companion travel program.

Regards,
tsully
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
DeltaSFO
Topic Author
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Akelley728, Tsully

Thu Apr 05, 2001 6:27 am

Akelley....

Each certificate is good for one roundtrip with one stopover on the Delta system, including Delta codeshare flights operated by other carriers. Like I said, I'm not really sure exactly how they calculate the yield. The employee does not have to be traveling with whoever gets the pass.

Tsully....

I think DAL's employee and family pass benefits were far better than UAL's for a very long time, but now that both UAL and DAL have unlimited free rides ( Big thumbs up), they're both pretty much the best in the industry. I understand that even if you are a UAL employee, you have to pay something like a $75 service fee to travel in Int'l F. Obviously we don't have Int'l F at DAL, but we get 18 of what we call "Transoceanic Flight Days." In otherwords, that's 18 24 hour periods where you can do all the transoceanic flying you want, even in BizElite, for no service charge, only the taxes, which are usually about $20 each way. So, realistically, that's 9 transoceanic round trips per year. I'm down to 12 T/O flight days already! After you use up all your T/O Flight Days, which incidentally I have never heard of anybody being able to do, you pay a $75 service fee on each Transoceanic roundtrip.

Domestically, we get completely free unlimited flights at S3 priority. The cool thing is that all the new long hauls to South America, as well as Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean, fall under our unlimited free S3 flight days. So MEX, EZE, GIG, GRU, SCL, LIM, and the rest are all free! A couple of buddies of mine that work in JFK and CVG are planning a big trip to SCL for a bunch of us. Should be pretty fun.

The cherry on top of everything is the S2 priority code. Each Delta employee gets 6 S2 priority flight days every year. They do not accumulate. These are useful for when you need to get back home to go to work the next day (been there, done that Big grin), and when you're going somewhere and you a) want to make sure you get premium seating or b) want to make sure you get on. Which of those two options of course depends on the load.

So I told you about how great the travel benefits for DAL employees and their immediate families are, here's the part where it sucks.

Let's say I give a buddy pass to you, and we decide to fly together. I have to go down to S4 priority.

Let's say you're a Delta employee with a seniority date of 4-7-00 and I'm a Delta employee with a seniority date of 12-1-69 and we list together on a flight. The date used for our standby priority is 4-7-00.

So for me to travel alone, the benefits are awesome. But when I want to take a friend somewhere or something like that, it's damn near impossible to get seated up front.

That was long winded, but I hope it answers your questions. By the way, where is your father based?

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
akelley728
Posts: 1964
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 6:45 am

Whoa... that sucks regarding the Buddy passes. So if my brother were to give a buddy pass to me or a friend of his who is not a Delta empoyee, he would not only go down to S4 priority but the date used for standby priority would be zero?
 
B747-437B
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 6:50 am

Delta15 :

I read your little rant about your brother having to fly in the back on an S3 and I am forever grateful that my non-revving experiences never made me into an ungrateful brat like you!  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 7:09 am

I think it is worth saying that many of the comments above are only reflective DL and perhaps some other US airlines. CO allows unlimited travel to all employees who have over 10 years senority and their nomenclature is slightly different using SA 0-5 rather than just S. SA 5 are buddy passes, SA 4 are dependents, SA 3 are employees, SA 2 are pilots and management, and SA 1, 0 and beyond are management. I may have goofed on some since it has been a while since I flew on a pass at CO.

Overseas things are very different. BA for example uses 27J55 (as an example) type rating for pass riders. It is also worth noting that at BA positive space does not always mean positive space. With a few exceptions, even with a P priority, commercial demand will always take priority. I have been tuffed off or placed down the back even though my reservation states ID100 FIRM.

Some airlines will decrement seats for duty travel but in my experience QF, NZ, AN, BA etc, will throw you off if commerical requirements dictate. Frankly it is a good rule. The only problem is when you get thrown off in India or HKG it is often difficult to get home.

I realize that as employees you are entiled to free travel, hence why many people join airlines b/c the pay is certainly not the reason. However, nothing gets me bent out of shape faster than seeing employees in the front cabin while Platinum Elites are down the back. Especially when those employees are in uniform. In my experience DL is the worst since they have very stringent upgrade policies (for example no upgrade to First class domestic if you are ticketed for Business Class overseas and in full Y for domestic sector). Employee travel in the front happens on CO as well, although that is changing since CO will never fly with First seats available if there are Elite members sitting in the back. As a Frequent traveler on many airlines, it is touches like that that make me want to fly on CO rather than AA or DL. Those stupid stickers/coupons are ridiculous. If the seat is there you should give it up. Any empty seat is a loss in revenue so by flying around with empty F seats while your coach cabin is full is crazy. Especially in the domestic sector, O/B the back and spill the seats up front.

By the way buddy passes are the worst way to travel. You are at the bottom of the totem pole and you chances of traveling on a Sunday are next too impossible. Plus and ID75 in the US is not going to be cheap. You might as well by a 7/14/21 day advance purchase ticket and save the headache.

Good luck nonrevs everywhere.
 
N202PA
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 7:58 am

Does anyone know how Air Canada's travel benefits work?

DeltaSFO-- did you work for AC at one point, or am I mistaken?

Thanks!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
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Tsully

Thu Apr 05, 2001 7:59 am

OK.... way off topic, but if you (or anyone who knows) could answer this question I'd be eternally grateful. I emailed UA Mileage Plus about it and they didn't tell me diddly, and even though there is actually a UA/AA/DL/NW ticketing office right across the street from my high school, I'm too lazy to go. ANYWAY the question is, I know a huge amount of UA travelers are already Premier members as it isn't really hard to get, the question is, as a Premier member, can I use the 5000 mile upgrade option (for any continental US/Canada/Mexico) on a DISCOUNTED fare? Or will I still have to use the 10000 mile upgrade? Also, flying out of a UA (semi)hub like SFO, do I have any chance of these upgrades being realized?
 
teahan
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 8:20 am

Hey,

SJC>SFO, I don't want to sound stupid, but you must really think everyone on this site is a slave. I mean, if you are too lazy to find out yourself, why should one of us do the research and bother typing a post?

If you are really so lazy, AT LEAST don't mention it in your post and you might just have a chance of getting a decent reply.

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
tsully
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

DeltaSFO & SJC>SFO

Thu Apr 05, 2001 10:12 am

DeltaSFO:

I've got to run, so I can't write as much as I'd like to.
My dad is LAXFO.
Talk to you later.

SJC>SFO:
Sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question.
I'd tell you if I knew, but the truth is, I'm not extremely knowledgeable when it comes to revenue passenger rules. I know NRSA rules like the back of my hand, but not 'normal' passenger rules.
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:08 pm

Oh, DeltaSFO, admit it, what would you do without good ole Uncle Leo?  Smile  Smile  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:24 pm

Dear DeltaSFO,

Please be assured that we appreciate your support for our new policy. It is a beginning of a trend within SkyTeam, whose new motto for co-operation (borrowed from a poster on flyertalk.com) is :


"Screw our passengers"...be our guest.
"Screw our employees"....think again.


DeltaSFO, thank you very much for your kind words. We hope you will keep these positive feelings in mind when we next ask for employee concessions.

Sincerely,
Your friendly Uncle Leo
 
DeltaSFO
Topic Author
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:28 pm

Dear Uncle Leo....

Thanks for your response. It's nice to know that our CEO takes the time to talk to us.

Now, the real question is, when will Atlanta send all Airport Customer Service personnel promotional buttons with our new slogan on them? I will wear mine with pride.  Laugh out loud

Take care and thanks again for these important developments.  Big thumbs up

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

Teahan

Thu Apr 05, 2001 12:28 pm

Teahan-
Sorry I phrased what I said incorrectly... and I didn't really tell the whole story. The fact is that last time I went in there for an actual question about an already booked reservation, the sales representative gave me a very long lecture about how I was wasting her time, when she should be selling tickets to others. It was very embarassing infront of a line one dozen deep. By the way, in the end she found that both my flights had been renumbered and their times changed (in other words cancelled) and my reservations needed to be altered. I'd just thought I'd ask someone here who might know off the top of their head about the mileage rules as sales representatives usually don't know everything about mileage awards. I do NOT think everyone here is my "slave", and I make point of thanking the people who spend their valuable time answering my endless questions and if anyone else thinks that thats how I feel, I'm sorry, but its not.
 
akelley728
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RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Thu Apr 05, 2001 1:44 pm

Hey SJC>SFO... I thikn the answer to your question is that you can use the 5000 certs, but I'm not sure as I usually fly on CO. BTW, Are you on Flyertalk? If not, I would post your question on the United board there. You'll get your question answered almost instantly.

http://www.flyertalk.com/boardsfr.htm

Teahan: Usually I respect your posts, but your response to SJC>SFO was stupid. He asked a simple question, what the heck is wrong with that? As the saying goes, if you have nothing good to say, don't say it!

 
tsully
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Teahan, SJC>SFO

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:56 pm

I agree with Akelley728. Teahan, SJC>SFO was merely asking us if we knew off the TOP OF OUR HEADS the answer to his question. I think you read more into his post than was intended by the author, buddy. Or at least I didn't get the general feeling of being treated as a slave.

And SJC>SFO, keep asking questions. You'll probably never learn if you never ask.

My dad has continued to fuel my love of aviation by taking the time to teach me and answer all my [sometimes] childish questions when it comes to aviation. I'm sure you'll find (as I have) that soon, your questions will become much more advanced and complicated. I think I've asked every aviation-related question there is to ask, but I never fail to come up with a new one now and then...
So just ask away  Smile
regards,
tsully
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
teahan
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Delta Cracks Down On Nonrevs

Fri Apr 06, 2001 2:29 am

Hey,

I have no problem with him asking, what is rather annoying is when he says he has 4 airline offices in front of his high school and is too lazy to go to the. I would not have said a word if he did not say that he was lazy!

Now that I know the full story it is different!

Kind Regards,
Jeremiah Teahan

Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004