Guest

DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:17 pm

Earlier tonight DL Flight 55 (I believe) was denied passage over the great circle route through Russia early, and returned to SFO, where all the passengers were placed into hotels for the night to await new travel plans tommorow. I saw this on my local news station just about 5 minutes ago. Anyone have anymore information?
Hey! I think this means we finally got a DL772 at SFO!
Whoo hoo!
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:19 pm

Acutally it was an MD-11, but I love how KRON 4 showed the graphic of a DL 727... sorry DeltaSFO! hehe
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:25 pm

Sorry I didn't compress all this in to one post, guess I was just in a hurry to be the first to post it =), but there were 202 pax on board.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:29 pm

Jeez... just my luck that I wasn't there.... OTOH, setting up hotels for 202 pissed off pax isn't exactly a cup of tea. I've had to do it on canceled HNL flights of 280 people....

For the record, SJC>SFO, Delta 777s N860DA, N865DA, and N866DA have each visited SFO once. N860DA and N866DA were equipment swaps, and N865DA was chartered by the San Francisco Giants last October.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:31 pm

I wonder if this will have any ramifications on DL's JFK-SVO route (flight #'s 30,31).

We [America] are just having a tough week when it comes to foreign relations...

tsully
I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:35 pm

Interesting, I just wish I had been there to see them! Yeah they had shots of the pax getting off the planes and they were NOT happy. The gate agents didn't look like they were having fun either. DeltaSFO, I understand your not around, but any idea why they diverted to SFO? I mean, doesn't DL fly alot of its Asia flights out of PDX (I have never understood why btw), so wouldn't that be the logical destination? I guess they might choose SFO because that would leave them the option to book the passengers on other airlines flights to NRT....
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:37 pm

God damn, I'm just totally out of it tonight! I'm sorry this is coming in pieces, but what Delta says happened is the air traffic controllers in Russia claimed that the paperwork wasn't filed properly for passage, and that was why passage was denied. There were no other flights denied passage.
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:40 pm

Hey SJC>SFO:

Did KRON makes this out to be a "breaking news" story or just casually mentioned it happened, w/ no follow up? Sounds to me like it would be breaking news. Interesting. I hope more media follows up on this so we can get the scoop!
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:42 pm

Well, the possible diversion airports are laid out in the flight plan. So I'm really not sure what the criteria were, given their particular position and fuel situation at the time.

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:43 pm

Haha it was breaking news I guess, it was the very first thing they did on the 11 o'clock, Even before the updates on the E-3 China situation! They spent a good 3-5 minutes on it.... it was not just casually mentioned.
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:47 pm

Why didn't Russia send the word that they were denying the a/c permission BEFORE the plane took off from ATL?
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1479
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 3:50 pm

Indeed if it was the top story then it would be breaking news. I am so curious by this about what happened.

DeltaSFO, you crack me up, indeed it does seem like anytime someone is away from a regular place of hangout like work, school, or home something crazy and out of the ordinary happens.
 
tsully
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:02 pm

News Story Here

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:02 pm

Here you go, guys ... from CNN.com
tsully

Russia forces Delta to turn jet around in mid-flight


April 5, 2001
Web posted at: 1:46 AM EDT (0546 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Delta Air Lines plane carrying 203 passengers and 15 crew members was turned back from Russian air space Wednesday after Russian air traffic control authorities said the plane did not have the proper overflight permission, a Delta spokesman said.

Flight 55 was then diverted to San Francisco, where it landed Wednesday night.

The non-stop flight left Atlanta at 10:05 a.m. Wednesday destined for Narita, Japan, spokesman Russ Williams told CNN. The 14-hour flight from Atlanta to Japan was 20 minutes in to Russian air space when the flight crew was informed by Russian air traffic control it did not have the proper permission to fly there. The plane was turned around near Litski, Russia.

Weary passengers interviewed as them arrived in San Francisco said they were tired and look forward to getting sleep after spending 14 hours in the air during the truncated flight.

"They wouldn't let us is in their air space," said passenger David Davis. "It was kind of scary."

Williams, the airline spokesman, said: "From Delta's perspective, we believe we did file the proper paperwork, but we'll certainly be looking into the matter."

The plane is an MD-11. The original flight path from Atlanta to Japan covers 6,850 miles.

FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown told CNN that two other planes from United States' airlines flew through Russian airspace after the Delta flight with no problems.

In 1983, a Korean Air Line jet was shot down while flying in what was then Soviet airspace. It crashed in the Sea of Japan, killing 269 passengers and crew. A later study by the International Civil Aviation Organization concluded the flight was downed by missile attack.


I love America. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle, but I'd rather be a dog in New York City than a prince in Riyadh.
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:10 pm

Wait...so the plane was ready to enter Russian airspace when this happened?? Couldn't they have just gone to Anchorage or some place closer? I suppose there are more travel options out of SFO, but it still surprises me.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:21 pm

A few observations - the Russians and Chinese are notorious about denying overflight permission if some beauraucratic bullsh*t isn't done correctly. Usually, a quick RT call to ops can fix the problem, but I think this whole situation has been exacerbated by the China situation. Maybe it was the Russians who overreacted and played CYA, or maybe it was the DL folks that decided to play it safe. Either way it isn't a particularly newsworthy story - a plane diverted - that happens literally hundreds of times each day for various reasons. I'm sure that within 24 hours no one will even remember it, save the 202 poor sods who wish they took the connection through LAX or JFK instead!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:27 pm

B747-437B, The newsworthyness of the story was directly related to the facts of the situation of airspace controversy around China, and (I don't know how true this is) but the news reporter made a very specific point that diversions due to airspace restrictions regarding mishandled paperwork are very uncommon. I'm a bit confused...... It looked like the distance to bypass russian airspace and continue on to NRT was shorter than the distance back to SFO, LAX, PDX, or SLC. Anyway Delta knows what they're doing.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:31 pm

SJC>SFO wrote :
Delta knows what they're doing.

*ROTFLMAO*
That's the funniest thing I have heard all evening!

That said, a DIVERSION due to paperwork snafus is pretty damn rare but the snafus themselves happen on a near daily basis with someone or the other. That was my point - diversion is rarely an issue - they usually just carry on for a while until ops or dispatch or whoever on ground is responsible for that stuff can sort it out.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:32 pm

Jeez.... I can't wait to get the full scoop when I go back to work.

B747-437B... I wonder if they're going to upgrade all those Medallions who are on cheap fares since we inconvenienced them. Well, it depends on which supervisor is on duty....  Big thumbs up

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:37 pm

Dear DeltaSFO,

Please be advised that our policy is that international upgrades may not be awarded at the gate under any circumstances. I urge you to review this policy at the earliest lest you accidently allow an AeroMexico ramprat into the front cabin, or even worse, a Medallion on an L fare.

Sincerely,
Your friendly Uncle Leo
 
Guest

B747-437B

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:37 pm

They know better than I do........... I hope.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:41 pm

Sorry, Uncle Leo. I didn't think you'd be up this late.  Laugh out loud

DeltaSFO
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:47 pm

Dear DeltaSFO,

Please be advised that Uncle Leo never sleeps. Uncle Leo has four eyes so he can see what you are up to at all times.

Sincerely,
Your friendly Uncle Leo

PS : Uncle Leo couldn't sleep, so he decided to stay awake and count the number of widebodies flying to MCO. That and work on a new livery.
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:50 pm

Yay! net ionics!
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:52 pm

Hey Leo....

How's things? I don't envy you at all. If I were you I'd probably have a hard time sleeping too, but since I'm not you, I sleep alright.

Hey, I've been meaning to ask you, did you ever go through with that idea I gave you about a bowling alley underneath B Concourse in ATL? I think it'd be huge, for sure.

Ron Allen
Former Chairman and CEO,
Delta Air Lines
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:58 pm

Dear Ron,

Please be advised that we are already working on the bowling alley concept as a replacement for our Crown Room Clubs. Our first one will open in the "secret tunnel" between B and C concourse. If you have been there lately, you will see that we are converting the moving walkways into bowling lanes (at least thats our official excuse why we never bother to fix them).

Sincerely,
Your friendly Uncle Leo

PS : About that widebodies to MCO thing, I can't seem to count higher than 7.5 - maybe you can help me out there.
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 5:07 pm

Leo...

Well, if you want to improve your sleeping habits, you should reduce that number to 5. Here are some suggestions:

-contract out all flight deck crew positions, as well as maintenance and inflight service out to Delta Global Services, a fully owned subsidiary of Delta which I established.

-increase the inflight entertainment headset charge on domestic flights to $7.50, or $7.49 for SkyMiles Medallion members.

-establish a service charge equivalent to the full Y fare on any given flight for Delta NRSA pass riders.

-eliminate the #2 engines on the 727s and MD-11s. Hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Hope those help. Drop me an email if you need any more help.

Ron Allen
Former Chairman and CEO,
Delta Air Lines
 
caetravlr
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Thu Apr 05, 2001 9:41 pm

Back to the real post.... Could you guys imagine, 14 1/2 hours in an airplane, just to end up back at SFO from ATL. No wonder they were not happy. Supposedly, the plane had been in the air for 9 1/2 hours when told to turn around, and it was another 5 hours back to SFO. I am so glad I was not on that plane.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
Guest

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Fri Apr 06, 2001 1:38 am

Thanks for the response everyone
 
uprightNlocked
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:02 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Fri Apr 06, 2001 2:13 am

Although not entirely related....
I was on a LH flight from MUC to ORD which developed a fuel leak 1 hr west of Iceland. The pilot diverted to FRA instead of DUB, LHR or Iceland. (Yes, 9 hours just to get from MUC to FRA) I guess the airlines just want their aircraft diverted to locations with ground/maintenance support (no ANC diversion for DL in the Russian airspace incident!)
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Fri Apr 06, 2001 2:14 am

Does anyone have the reg of the aircraft? Which gate did it pull into? What happens now? Will the aircraft depart SFO for NRT?
 
AA@DFW
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2000 8:06 pm

RE: DL ATL-NRT Denied Passage Over Russia Tonight

Fri Apr 06, 2001 3:42 am

FROM AA's Corporate Website:

A Delta Air Lines flight en route to Japan was forced back to the United States on Thursday after Russian air traffic controllers said it didn't have permission to fly through their air space. Delta Flight 55, carrying 203 passengers and 15 crew members, was about 20 minutes into Russian air space when controllers there notified the pilots that the flight lacked proper clearance. The plane turned around and re-crossed the Pacific Ocean, landing in San Francisco early Thursday. A spokesman for the civil aviation sector of the Russian Air Traffic Control Center in Moscow, said Delta had failed to send a request in time for permission to fly through Russian airspace but that it was given special clearance by Moscow. ``Maybe, there was some misunderstanding.'' A Delta spokesman said the flight path from Atlanta to Narita, Japan, passes through Russian air space every day. He said the plane had been in the air for about 9 1/2 hours when it was told to turn around. The flight to San Francisco took 5 1/2 hours more. Passengers were given overnight accommodations in San Francisco and were being re-booked on flights for later Thursday.