US A333 PIT
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Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Sat Apr 07, 2001 11:37 am

I've been reading all of these posts about how low yield the market to Hawaii is cause it's mostly frequent flyer award travelling instead of the business customers who pay the big bucks. So, naturally, it's understandable why airlines are eliminating routes to Hawaii. In the past few months DL has halted service from both ATL and DFW while United has halted the ORD-HNL route. I know these routes weren't eliminated soley because of unprofitability but the airlines must have also taken that into consideration. (I know they've been having pilot disputes.) Any how, my question is how can TWA afford to fly daily nonstops between STL and both HNL and OGG(Maui)? To only HNL I could maybe understand, but OGG as well. How can they make money on these routes? Thanks for anyone with answers.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Sat Apr 07, 2001 12:12 pm

This is purely a quess, but TWA has been using the 757 non-stop from Hawaii. Not a huge passenger load. But then, STL wouldn't have the same amount of passengers as say ORD. So it could be profitable for them. Like I said, just a quess.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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Boeing Nut

Sat Apr 07, 2001 12:34 pm

TWA only uses the 757 on the LAX-KOA route. From STL they use 767-300er's on both HNL and OGG routes so they have to fill up a pretty big plane.
 
762er
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 2:10 am

Good question. Anyone know how the STL-Hawaii routes are doing?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 2:28 am

Remember that the US carriers are very careful with their Hawaii routes and the yeild factor since so many people use their frequent flyer miles on vacations to Hawaii; nice for the pax, expensive for the airlines. That is why the route are frequently flown with older aircraft and sometimes nonstop flights are reduced - the aircraft may be full, but nobody is paying!!
 
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Dutch Jet

Mon Apr 09, 2001 2:54 am

Everything you said was correct. That's why the TWA situation doens't make sense, because TWA is using some of their newest and their biggest aircraft on these two routes.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 7:41 am

As with most airlines Hawaii does does not make much money. However airlines do fly it so their frequent fliers will have place to "spend" their miles. Additionally, it is intersting to note that since the DC10's and L1011's have been parked as well as the older 747's and being replaced by 757's 767's etc many "excess" seats have been eliminated from the market. This has slightly pushed the yields up on the flights (supply and demand). Fianlly with the fuel savings, the trips do occasionally post a slight profit.,
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 12:22 pm

I fly my mother to HNL every year and TWA always gives us the best fare. She flys from STL to HNL Non Stop on a 767-300. Last fare I paid round trip was 499.00. I couldn't believe it.
 
US A333 PIT
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 12:45 pm

So does anybody know the answer to my original question?
 
nwa747-400
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:07 pm

Northwest must be doing well with HNl service because last year they added DTW-HNL nonstop flights and they have also announced the MSP-HNL is going to be year round nonstop (747 winter months, DC10 summer months) in addition to daily nonstops from LAX, SFO, and SEA to HNL with DC10 aircraft.
 
Guest

RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Mon Apr 09, 2001 8:04 pm

I have no inside information, but I think that TWA had marketing agreements on its Hawaii routes. Essentially, a tour group would buy a number of the seats on the plane and then sell these as part of its tour packages. TWA then had the rest of the seats to sell or use for its frequent fliers. This guaranteed (hopefully) a small profit for TWA, and moreso if it could sell the leftover seats. This is the same strategy they used on some of their Caribbean flights.


adeu,

Matt
 
Guest

RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Tue Apr 10, 2001 1:45 am

Matt, I think your right.

For the LAX-KOA flight only though.

Most of the Carribean flights (all EWR and BOS and most JFK) were these subsidized flights as well.
 
contrails
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:00 am

Just curious, but where does TWA refuel the 757's on the STL-Hawaii flights?
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mdsmith11
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:59 am

TWA was one of the pioneers for air-to-air commercial A/C refueling. Usually with cooperation with a USAF KC-10 tanker.
 
travelin man
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RE: Questions On STL-Hawaii Routes

Tue Apr 10, 2001 3:33 am

LOL Mdsmith11  Smile

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