cfalk
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Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 5:16 pm

Airbus is apparently working on a similar concept, tentatively called the "E2" (E-squared). Anyone know about this, and how soon the combined development costs of this and the A380 will cause the EU to bail them out?

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Kangar
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 5:53 pm

What's this EU bail out crap? Yet another good ,balanced, and well thought out post.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 6:40 pm

Kangar we agree on something. Cfalk's post is well thought out. There is no way that EADS can survive developing both. If they do they will either goto the wall,or be bailed out by the EU.
John S.
 
cfalk
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 6:57 pm

Don't get me wrong. As a spotter, I'd love to see the E2, 20XX, and A380 all fly. They will certainly all be fantastic to see. But I wish Airbus will eventually stop hiding behind this consortium facade with varied government interests and ownership and become a proper company, privately (i.e. through the stock exchange) owned and responsible to its shareholders and to its clients. Such spending levels amount to leveraging - which is a good thing up to a point. But I don't see how a $20 billion R&D budget can be absorbed without outside help.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
gkirk
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 7:10 pm

Yep to build this I am sure that Airbus would require another huge loan from the EU , especially as they are offering big discounts on the A380 so if they aint careful, there is a slight chance that they could go bust. Maybe they should just stick to the A380 at the moment, at least until they are making a profit on the A380.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
sndp
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 7:10 pm

EADS, 80% owner of Airbus, is a company with shares on the stock exchange market and as a result has to publish its results each year, including those of Airbus. Just as is the case in the USA, Airbus can ask for loans for up to 1/3 of development costs of a porject to the governments. They do this, just like Boieng does. Because Airbus has never been able to gain money for its civilian projects, or at least for technology used in those projects, via military projects, which can receive 100% money from the government, they started with A400M military transport plane. Just like Boeing has already been doing for years, they can use the research money for the military program as a benefit fot their new comercial planes. Belive me, Airbus and Boeing do the same things, the one does not receive more money than the other. Probably Airbus won't be able to develop a rival to the Boeing SC with the A380 on the table. Maybe they do, maybe they have enough money to develop this plane. But please, stop saying that Boeing receives more money from the government, or Airbus does. They both do.
sndp
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 9:17 pm

Airbus have been talking about this for quite along time. Long before Boeing announced Thunderbird 10. However who knows how long Airbus and Boeing have been thinking / talking about it.
 
Kangar
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 9:22 pm

Guys,
It's the bailing out reference I take exception to. This is what is done for a company in dire straits, not one with about half the medium to large airliner market. To develop they will need to raise funding, like Boeing, not get bailed out. Each project in these companies stands on it's own feet, and is funded on it's own merits. If AI think the SC is a go, they will go ahead with it. It's called spreading your risk, and the risk to investors also.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 9:42 pm

All these things about Airbus and Boeing have nothing to with the fact that EADS cannot survive the development of two very expensive airframes at the same time.
If I owned EADS shares, I would be very worried about the A380 project by itself, but to talk about a SC equivalent as well is, just that, Talk!
Ruscoe
 
Joni
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 10:31 pm


Airbus hasn't, to my knowledge, said they're building a competitor to SC. They've said they've looked at the idea some time ago and it didn't look financially viable. Boeing, also, hasn't said they're serious about building the SC either.

 
cfalk
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 11:34 pm

According to the press, Singapore Airlines, American Airlines, British Airways and Cathay Pacific have already expressed interest in it. With that kind of interest recieved so quickly, I think its a sure bet that Boeing will go for it, unlike the stillborn 747X.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
NUAir
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RE: Airbus To Compete With Boeing SC

Mon Apr 09, 2001 11:49 pm

The interest in the new Boeing is limited at best... The new Boeing will NOT be using 777 engines. They have been working with a Japenease firm for the last 5 years and almost nothing has been accomplished. From tests done in the Australian desert the current engines being tested are burning way to much fuel and are the costs of development will already make the price of the a/c to high unless a significant amount of a/c are ordered. the Japenease company says the new engine will not be ready until close to 2020. This is information from an airport and aircraft development meeting that was just held in Tokyo, Japan.. As soon as it is made official I will hook you up with a link.

This is turning out to be more of a publicity stunt then anything else. But the project is nothing new and has been in the works for some time now. The chief advantage will be that the time saved is just enough to cut long distance flights down to one crew as opposed to two. saving airlines big money.. but don't think the unions havent figured this out yet.

The only thing we can do is wait and watch.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet