MaxPowers
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Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 6:33 am

Is Jet Blue going to be the next powerhouse in the coming up years? They made a profit in the first 6 months, and they have realy cheep fairs to populat routs and are expanding. Expecialy in the down economy and bull markets, more people can fly thanks to Jet Blue...
Any Comments, any posts bashing me or my post are not welcome, but only sensable replys are.
Thanks in advance
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 6:37 am

JetBlue has the right formula with the right people to go head-to-head with Southwest at the time being.

We'll have to see how this pans out though, as the market is dynamic. I believe that JetBlue will be fully able to contend with the majors in a decade or less, barring any unforseen circumstances.

Word of mouth advertising is helping JetBlue very well at this point.

- Neil Harrison
 
michigan4life
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 7:00 am

I'd give it a decade before jetBlue has defeated the mid-majors and will challenge the big boys. They are very promising.

Mike
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 7:19 am

yes I agree that jetBlue will have a great future. However, I hope that Pan Am will become one of the majors also in the near future.

Giantjets..
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 11:33 am

One of the things that I believe is helping jetBlue very well is the fact that they are operating brand new A320s instead of ratty old DC9s or 737-200s. And, they're not trying to grow to fast a la Western Pacific or serving underserved markets a la Pan Am 3.

jetBlue appears to be on its way to being to the new decade what Southwest was to the 1970s.
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 12:15 pm

JetBlue is Southwest (ver 2.0); bigger and better!  Smile

- Neil Harrison
 
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lindy field
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 12:23 pm

Let's hope so! Having flown "JetBleu" several times across the country, I have yet to find any cause for complaint about their service. It's also very good that they are starting daytime service to ONT and OAK. Now they just need to start service to SAN so I can visit me mum and go to the beach.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 12:34 pm

Yall gotta remember though... cheap fares and stuff are great for starting up to get customers. Remember ValuJet? They cut some major corners when it came to maintenance. Just wait until the planes build their time up and have to go into heavy maintanence. That will be the determining factor as to how successful they will really be.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Ian
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 12:34 pm

i think that once jet blue infiltrates some of southwest's major markets on the east then we will definately be looking at a "major" competitor.
 
VirginA340
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 1:04 pm

XFSUgimpB41X; God I hope that doesn't happen. many innocent men, women and children are now dead or injured or even scared for life along with the familes who are left behind to pick up the pices due to airline/FAA screw ups everytime a plane crashes due to them When the NTSB gets more power; You better bet I'll be celebrating. I've been through it myself.
"FUIMUS"
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 1:18 pm

If JetBlue management continues to run the carrier as well as they have so far, the airline can look forward to a bright future. They have the world's largest O & D market as their base, exceptionally high a/c utilization, high quality service, and a cost structure that can keep fares low.

Neil's right that the market is dynamic, though. I'm convinced that the Big 6/ Oligopoly-Cartel carriers are keeping hands off JetBlue this year. They want their yummy anticompetitive supermergers approved, and they'll probably behave until consolidation gets through. After that, should it happen, is anybody's guess.

JetBlue CEO Neeleman recently said, though, that he would not mind mergers because JetBlue is ready to take the majors on. I hope so, because if superconsolidation happens, Big Air will drop the 2001 nice-guy act and try to destroy them.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
johnboy
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Tue Apr 10, 2001 6:32 pm

I just can't see the direct competition between jetBlue and Southwest yet. They both seem to have their specific niches, let alone the number of passengers, planes, etc. Southwest is still more point to point, and jetBlue is VERY much a New York-based O & D airline. Granted, jetBlue has a great population base in the Northeast to work with, but not many people are willing to connect at JFK traveling from the West Coast to Florida. It's like the airlines are inhabiting parallel universes.
 
Greg
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 12:19 am

Jet Blue right now is an annoying little buzz on the East coast. At which point, they become a threat, SW, American, and United will see to their demise.

It's all about price..not service. The majors can easily withstand a price war much more readily than JetBlue.

JetBlue made an operating profit after six months--not a financial profit. There's a difference.

They have been successful. But I would be leary of thier long term viability.

AA and UA have a commanding presence at JFK.
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:59 am

I think JetBlue is still too new for any of us to be making predictions on its success. I think it will be successful however, but that is just a personal hope! I think as the company begins to put some more months under its belt, it will be opening more destinations for its service. If the majors keep treating its passengers like cattle, then I think JetBlue will do well. BUt it does need to open more markets.....like Midwest Express...I think it could be great, but it offers too few destinations..its sad..ie, MInneapolis is in the midwest, but the NWA "monopoly" at MSP probably prevents Midwest Express from going there. sad.
 
michigan4life
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 5:08 am

It has been said in the past that a main reason jetBlue's future is so bright is because of their congressional backing; that no airline will try to undercut jetBlue, because no airline, major or small, wants to be subjected to a congressional investigation. jetBlue has a lot of support as far as DC is concerned.

Mike
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:15 am

Bull markets are good. Bear markets are bad
 
chepos
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:25 am

Hopefully JetBlue will be succesfull , I can imagine them in the next 20 years . Thanks to Jetblue people can travel between NY and some cities in the country without having to pay 1,000 dollars just for a roundtrip ticket. JetBlue has the ingredients to be sucessful and luck seems to be at its side , so hopefully they will continue to be sucessfull .
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
watewate
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:31 am

Any ideas as to where JetBlue could possibly target as next hub when they outgrow JFK? Those slots will run out sometime and they'll need to look elsewhere for growth. Suggestions?
 
goingboeing
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:32 am

They will be a power as long as they are able to keep their costs down. Currently, they are non-union. As they grow, there will most likely be a move to organize the employees. If this happens and they (employees) only look at bottom line "how much will I make per hour", then their costs could skyrocket -giving them little advantage of a much larger major, outside of a PTV in every seat, and even those, in time, will cost as they will most likely require repair.
 
Pilot1113
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:39 am

There are numerous pieces of legislation on the table just waiting for the right moment to emerge.

Remember the "Passenger Bill of Rights?" The majors were scared to death of this and it ALMOST passed. If pressure is applied to JetBlue look for this, as well as others, to emerge from being tabled.

No airline wants a Congressional hearing into their pricing practices. No airline wants the CAB to return.

- Neil Harrison
 
michigan4life
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:00 am

Exactly Neil!!!!! No major will try anything stupid, they'd rather coexist with jetBlue than get nabbed in congress.

Mike
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:39 am

Actually Neil, the Civil Aviation Board (CAB) was tremendous for the airlines. It was the CAB that limited their competition, ensured their monopolies, and upheld their high pricing. So, while re-regulation is not expected, you can bet their are friends and supporters of a CAB-like agency within the HQs of our major airlines.

Just ask Alfred Kahn!

rgds
russ
 
ScottB
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:56 am

I believe that JetBlue will indeed become a powerhouse at JFK; it wouldn't surprise me to see 200 daily departures there in 10 years or so. It depends on how saturated the market becomes with AA and DL committing substantial resources to JFK in the medium term. There is, however, a theoretical maximum size to the market; after all, they do want to fill the planes with passengers paying a sufficient fare to break even. Setting up a high-quality low-fare operation at JFK was certainly a brilliant idea, though - a great untapped market.

JetBlue and Southwest will be unlikely to compete directly in the next several years; right now, they only compete on some connecting routes from BUF to Florida, as well as indirect competition between ISP/JFK and Florida. Currently, Southwest's fares to Florida from ISP are slightly lower than B6's fares from JFK. As they both grow their low-fare systems, there will be greater potential for competition; however, I think Southwest is extremely unlikely to enter JetBlue's JFK market niche; JetBlue's main competition there would likely be Delta Express. By the same token, as Southwest manages to further build up its operations in the east and generally nationwide, JetBlue will find it difficult to add a second base of operations without directly competing against Southwest or a major's fortress hub.

JetBlue has a good product and image so far. I think they likely got an amazing deal on their A320's since I think Airbus wanted to prove that a low-fare carrier based on their narrowbody fleet would work; it remains to be seen how favorable JetBlue's terms will look like for long-term orders. Costs will also increase as their employees all advance along the wage scale - that's a long-term minus. JFK's operational problems for about 6 hours each day also raise costs just a bit.

The main thing I wonder about is - where do they go after fully exploiting the JFK market - just like you ask where AirTran goes post-Atlanta (PIT?) or Frontier post-DEN.
 
flyer62
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 9:54 am

jetblue is a excellent airline, by far better than most major airlines,they have great service,friendly flight attendants and pilots and vey clean brand new A320s and unbeatable airfares!
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 10:08 am

Why do they call them "Jet Blue"? The plane has a white body with a little bule on the rudder! Do the f/a's die there hair blue or something?  Big grin
 
Guest

RE: By The Way

Thu Apr 12, 2001 10:15 am

I would never fly jet blue because of the Airbus fleet! Do they own anything but the A320 that crashes allot because of a big FBW problem?
 
chepos
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 10:29 am

I would fly JetBlue any moment any time. Mr. 717 you really dislike Airbus Aircraft .Anyway going back to the topic . I would say that for the next 3-4 years JetBlue wont be adding a second hub .
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Republic
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 12:00 pm

Scott B:

Exactly. In time, Frontier will present an excellent acquisition opportunity. Denver would fit well as a Western hub. Fleet commonality is a match. Similar when Southwest acquired Morris Air.

I am assuming that jetBlue is better financed. Frontier possibly acquiring/merging with jetBlue could also be a possibility.

Rgds,
Joe
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 12:07 pm

Be funny if JetBlue ever acquired Frontier!

Just like when PeoplExpress acquired Frontier...

whats with these cool low cost upstart NY airlines and denver?
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 12:31 pm

I am very deprived here in MCI. We do not get Jet Blue service here and I have never seen a Jet Blue plane. Maybe one of these days, though. They sound great. I would like to fly with them.
 
ei a330-200
Posts: 340
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 12:39 pm

What either JetBlue or Southwest needs to do is start service from LAX to EWR. That is a very popular route that is also kinda expenisve on other airlines. I would love to see that take effect. Lets hope that that happens someday! One question on jetBlue, do they have flight attendants and meals, or is it like Southwest?
Viva Airbus!!!!!
 
Pilot1113
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:45 pm

>>Actually Neil, the Civil Aviation Board (CAB) was
>>tremendous for the airlines.

Okay... I got shot down big time there! I'm man enough to go crawl back under the rock I emerged from.  Smile

However, my point still remains there's a lot of legislation just waiting for the dam to break. When it does, expect the majors to "circle the wagons."

One piece I waiting eagerly to pass is one that says that if an established carrier tries to undercut a low fare carrier's fare, that established carrier would have to keep that fare for 5 years.

- Neil Harrison
 
jmacias34
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Thu Apr 12, 2001 4:08 pm

EI A330-200

The reason I don't see jetBlue operating out of LAX, is cost. I would assume the landing fees are much greater at LAX then they are at ONT. I live closer to LAX than ONT, and I would much rather fly out of Ontario, even if I can get a direct out of LAX. Besides, airlines like jetBlue may attract other airlines to take advantage of the low-cost, underserved market.
 
Guest

Side Note: The CAB

Fri Apr 13, 2001 12:16 am

Just as the Civil Aeronautics Board protected the monopolies of the majors, it also hindered their growth in many ways (A) by dragging out the process to end service on unprofitable routes; (B) by not allowing airlines to serve new destinations without a lengthy federal review; and (C) by protecting airlines with weak mgmt/poor service.

Check out airline route maps through the 60s - 1978. They remained almost static, only changing dramatically whenever an airline purchased another, DL/NE, EA/Caribe..AL/Mohawk, etc.

There was NO airline operating in 1978 that was unhappy about the demise of the CAB (although it would be curtains for BN, EA and a host of others). And there is NO airline today wanting increased federal oversight in any operational matters (other than safety).

Today's airline industry is healthy because airlines are free to operate when and where they want (a few exceptions).
 
Alpha 1
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Pilot1113

Fri Apr 13, 2001 12:39 am

I agree that majors should not undercut fares on new entrants-and I also agree that they should not be allowed to flood a market suddenly with incrreased flights when new competition arises, but what about when a major simply MATCHES a low fare introduced by a new entrant? Seems to me that that is not unreasonable. CO matched Kiwi's fares when they started EWR-ATL service, and Kiwi said that that was "unfair". I don't see that as unfair.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Pilot1113

Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:45 am

As we discussed on another thread, a major simply matching a low-fare carrier's fares is not predatory. That's competition at work--the low-fare carrier bringing down fares for everyone.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 1:46 am

There is a difference between fair and unfair competition strategies. If a major doubles capacity, frequently offers double or triple miles, and the EXACT same fares as the smaller carrier(i.e. no Sat. night stay), including dropping fuel surcharges and the like, that is predatory.
 
flyer62
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 9:25 am

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 2:34 am

Jetblue Airways is and always will be profitable,no other carrier can match their service,aircraft and price.JetBlue will ride over Southwest, southwest does not seem to care about smaller cities for the most part,they like to go to major cities.Jetblue serves small cities as well the major ones. they serve Burlington Vt,will be starting service to Portland,Maine and Manchester, NH and in the future Bangor Maine as well,JetBlue does not and will not ever cut corners on aircraft servicing.those A-320s will always be in excellent condition!
 
goingboeing
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:24 am

Flyer62 - << southwest does not seem to care about smaller cities for the most part,they like to go to major cities. >>

What about the metropolis' of Amarillo, Harlingen, Lubbock, Midland/Odessa...?
 
servisair
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:33 am

I hope Jet blue do continue to grow but just a word of warning. Remeber what happend to Laker when they started to eat into the transaltntic market?

BA and PAN-AM soon put pay to them. I imagine AA, UA, SW and Delta are watching VERY closely.
30 Yeras in the Biz...
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:51 am

Jet Blue certainly has great potential, but it will take a few more years before anyone can reasonably project them as a future powerhouse. This is a very young airline making some very good decisions, but still far from playing one-on-one with any of the bigger airlines. None of us can project with any certainty that a junior high schooler with a great aptitude for basketball will be the next Michael Jordan; in fact, Jordan wasn't even drafted first out of college...that's how inaccurate the experts were in projecting "futures" then.

Predatory pricing happens and always will. DoT and DoJ live to pass off the responsibility to protect consumers against these practices, so effectively nothing is done. It IS reasonable for UAL to redirect capacity to routes that slow or thwart growth by competition in the hub they believe is theirs. It is not right for fair competition, but it is reasonable.

Some of these posts demonstrate a near-fanatic allegiance to JetBlue. For crying out loud, SWA's entire formula is based on serving smaller airports and avoiding major hubs.

I believe SWA is actually quite pleased to see JetBlue come along and hopes it succeeds well (and, SWA has said as much, too). The emergence of JetBlue does two things: it further validates the successful formula SWA has created, and it offers an additional (and more vulnerable) threat for BigAir to attack...effectively taking heat off SWA.
 
MaxPowers
Topic Author
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:16 am

Thank you all for responding, i wasn't expecting all these replies. And for everyone who posted, thanks for the no bs, bashing, or rudeness.

Thanks To All,
Max Powers
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:29 am

A320 Stinks! do all Jet Blue F/a's have blue hair?
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:40 am

A320s are dynamite. In the very least they are as good as 737NGs. I believe JetBlue's success rides on the fact that it selected new aircraft
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
A320FA
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 3:16 pm

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:45 am

I would love for Jet Blue and America West to merge and retain the Jet Blue name with the service standards and inflight amenities and get rid of all America West Management. Jet Blue will have a huge presence in the West with a huge PHX and LAS hub.
 
ContinentalFan
Posts: 343
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:47 am

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:51 am

Mr. 717,

What is your deal against A320s? You seem to add nothing of value to this discussion except to say that A320s suck. Please stop trolling and trying to incite a flame war.

Regards,
Mike.

P.S. I would much rather fly an A320 w/ PTVs than a 737NG without!
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:56 am

A320's Have major problems with FBW! They Crash & Burn Allot!
 
MaxPowers
Topic Author
Posts: 453
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 6:00 am

Damnit, thanks for ruining it Mr. 717, now please cut the crap. I know your joking too!
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 6:06 am

I'm Not! A320's Have major problems with FBW! They Crash & Burn Allot!
 
Guest

RE: Is Jet Blue Going To Be Next Powerhouse

Fri Apr 13, 2001 6:12 am

If JetBlue Does't come into Chicago soon they won't be any Powerhouse!

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