Laserjet
Topic Author
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 5:01 pm

How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:32 pm

I know that Pan Am 3 has been discussed many times, and I have seen there website, so know the background, their fleet and destinations. I also have noticed they have gradually extended their network.

However, I am curious to know how they are doing financially and in terms of load factors.

I think their strategy of operating from under utilised airports is interesting, so I would really like to know if people think it is working.

Any help or information on this would be much appreciated. I always had a soft spot for the original Pan Am, and would like to see the name continue.

Thanks
 
flybp
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 4:28 am

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:53 pm

the parking lot at pease/portsmouth airport was completely full yesterday along with a completely full overflow area. since pa is essentially the only carrier there, that certainly implies that someone is flying out of nh at least. i believe they added flights for the school vacation weeks too.
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:07 pm

I have compiled some newspaper articles that I will post later, when I have more time on my hands.
It looks like Pan Am is still not profitable, but expects to break even this year, according to David Fink. This would be in line with projections made in '99, when Pan Am resumed scheduled service.

After the failed attempt of flying point-to-point in the Northeast, it now looks as if Orlando/Sanford will become Pan Am's hub - well, sort of. This will also include commuter service to the Keys, possibly the Bahamas, and some other destinations in Florida. With the demise of TWA, the new service to Puerto Rico should be rather successful, and I wouldn't be suprised to see more direct flights to San Juan, too.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:12 pm

One word concerning airlines operating out of low utilized airports: RyanAir!

(one of the most profitable airlines in the world, VERY low prices, very good safety, no service though...)
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:01 am

PA 3 is doing great on the east coast but in the west with exception of Gary. It's not so good. On a flight from Mid America-Portsmouth the 727-200 had to make an emergency landing. There we're only 30 pax onboard and most said that they would never fly them again. Once the plane landed they were suck out there for 3 hours becausethe airports only tug was broken. I think they should pull out of MidAmerica before AA completely takes over STL and then tries to drive PA out of biz or come up with some sort of plan that Herb Kelleher would do. They need to do something to help get pax in the midwest. I konw eventually the airline plans to go slowely and carefully westward so I hope Dave knows on what he is doing.
"FUIMUS"
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:34 am

I was kind of disappointed that they changed their service pattern from Portsmouth. Now they just fly to Sanford. And I wish they would regularize their schedules: there's too much "ex Tu", "Tu and Th only", "leaves one hour earlier until May 1", etc. I wish they would pick a time and stick to it each day.
 
Cody
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:59 am

They have applied for service to take advantage of the Essential Air Service between Cumberland and hagertown, Maryland and BWI using Jetstreams. It was in our local paper today.
 
Cody
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 12:16 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 1:00 am

They have applied for service to take advantage of the Essential Air Service between Cumberland and Hagerstown, Maryland and BWI using Jetstreams. It was in our local paper today.
 
ryanair
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 1:41 am

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:00 am

Last I heard the passenger loads were low and loss making, but some lucrative cargo contracts had been found.

BostonBeau: I agree whole heartedly with what you say. Infact I've found their presentation in every area to be very poor, sloppy and amateurish.

I wish them luck  Smile
 
sterne82
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun May 07, 2000 4:50 am

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:21 pm

And what about a new fleet for Pan Am? It's time, no?

Some new airbusses A320-319 to replace their rather old B727-200 (I know they have winglets, but it doesn't change anything-except the fuel burnt...!)??

I wish them lot of luck
 
BostonBeau
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 11:55 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:42 pm

Well new airbuses would be nice....but considering the price differential between a new A320 and a used B727, I suspect that even with the extra cockpit crew member and higher fuel usage, the B727 comes out ahead. Maybe PA should look into B737s, though, since the average flyer can't tell the difference between a brand new one and a 25 year old one...hehe  Smile
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:25 am

An A320, 717 or even a 737 could fit in with them. The origianl had 25 A320s on order with 25 more as an option. They we're going to replace their 737-200s. I really think that PA should get aircrafts with air/aft stair capability like the 727 since some of their airports have little or no jetways.
"FUIMUS"
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:53 am

I think they are doing 'ok'. Making money at least.  Smile

They are now more focused in the regional market as a small regional airline. Totally different from PANAM 1.

However, I would very much hope to see a B 747-400/400ER in Panam's colour in the next 10 to 20 years. Let's see if they are doing well enough to do this.

 Smile
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

RE: How Are Pan Am 3 Doing?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 4:41 am

<< They are now more focused in the regional market as a small regional airline. Totally different from PANAM 1. >>

"Pan Am 1" started as a regional carrier too. One single route from Key West to Havanna.
Rome was not build in a day either ...

Since Pan Am's parent company owns the B727s, there are no exorbitant lease costs. Hence these planes are very cost-efficient for Pan Am. According to Dave Fink, the operating cost is $3,000 per hour. Besides the B&27 has much more cargo space than most other aircraft (MD80, B737, B717). This is an important factor to consider, especially, when an airline flies a lot of charters, like Pan Am does. Nonetheless Pan Am could probably use a somewhat smaller jet aircraft for marginal routes. But I wouldn't be surprised to see some additional B727s too.