airmale
Posts: 7125
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EL AL Warned By Yemen

Wed Apr 18, 2001 7:28 pm

EL AL have been warned by the Yemen Govt. that any of their aircraft that strayed into Yemeni airspace would be intercepted, LY have denied that they have ever entered the countrys airspace and as a precatuionary measure will fly closer to Eritrea to avoid a conflict, Israel is also negotiating with Ethiopia to use their air space Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
chepos
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Wed Apr 18, 2001 7:40 pm

Dont get me wrong , I understand the problems that Israel has with alot of the middle eastern countries but I consider that people onboard of an EL AL planes have nothing to do with the conflict . Neither do the El Al planes . More govt. should take the position of those like the govt of Jordan and Egypt wanting peace instead of conflict. Hope that with this posts I dont cause a revolt or some sort of conflict .
Chepos
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TCA256
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:38 pm

first of all, LY is allowed to fly over ethiopian territory
as they have scheduled flights to Addis Ababa where
the ethiopian jews fly a lot..secundo, yemen can complain about some "intrusion" about El Al aircrafts
but they should better consider these are civilian
aircrafts..peaceful aircrafts...by the way, how would
you expect the yemenite to intercept an aircraft ???
do they even have a single aircraft ? Go El Al..Go...even
if I hate your timeless needed security checks  Big grin
 
et767fan
Posts: 31
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:21 am

TCA, i dont believe EL AL has a service agreement with Ethiopia. I know for fact Ethiopian serves Tel Aviv three times per week.

Ciao
caution: wake turbulance!
 
VirginA340
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:14 am

I hope that this does not lead to the Korena Air Shoot down back in 83. If this happens then World War 3 will break out due to some hot headed country that shot down a 747 and killing hundreds of innocent civilains. There have been more than enough men, women and children from all sides that have already been killed to start up a foreign country.
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:15 am

I meant to type Korean Air
"FUIMUS"
 
prebennorholm
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:59 am

Shame on Yemen.
By telling such words they put even more years to the date when they can expect to be considered an ordinary, regular and orderly country.
That way of thinking can only remind us of the darkest part of the Middle Age.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
BigD
Posts: 88
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:07 am

To be honest, the Yemeni's are really in no position to be delivering credible threats to the Israeli's or to anyone for that matter!

BigD
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 8:07 am

As of 1998 the Yemen Air Force had the following as far as fighters go (I don't know what has changed since then):

14x F-5B/E
4x MiG-15UTI
44x MiG-17F
29x MiG-21
22x MiG-23BN
57x Su-22BKL/M-2/U

Although this could be a match for an airliner, it definately isn't for Israel's flighters (F-4, F-15, F-16, Kfir)

 
DETA737
Posts: 617
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 8:42 am

Just curious which countries ban Israeli overflights?
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 8:54 am

Eliben, don't be so ignorant. I wouldn't call Yemen a rouge nation. I would also like your definition of "civilized countries." Do you mean non Muslim countries? How about non third world countries. Since when do we fault an entire nation for the senseless acts of a few terrorists. You certainly would want me to associate you with Tim McVeigh or some hillbilly redneck just b/c you live in the States. Although with statements like yours, you probably are.

Whether right or wrong, the Yemani's can do whatever the want with their own airspace. Just like Russia can turn back Delta, just like China can open up new air cooridors to Asia, just like American carriers cannot fly over Iraq or Afganistan. Its no big deal but it is their right to refuse EL AL to fly over their airspace.

 
LY744
Posts: 5185
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:33 am

It was reported that Yemen was planning to buy some Su-27's from Russia (new or used) a year or more ago, anyone knows if the deal went through?
Anyways, LY, or any other carrier, should not invade into the airspace of a country that doesn't allow them to fly there.
In the past Israeli Air Force fighters used to escort every LY flight in that area (North Eastern Africa and the Red Sea), are the Yemenian warnings serious enough to restore those tactics?
BTW, the IAF doesn't operate the Kfir anymore, but it is yet to get rid of it's A-4's.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
trintocan
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:19 pm

Bad memories of KAL 007 are coming to mind with this announcement. One also recalls the Iran Air A300 which was shot down by the Americans over The Gulf. This is 2001 so let us all hope that no new acts of war take place in this volatile area.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:27 pm

Trintocan; You are rught about that. If this happens then World War 3 is just around the corner for Isreal and other countries and many more will be caught in the mess trying to keep the peace. EL-AL does have missle chaffs and other security devices aboard their planes but they can only do so much when one of their 747s is confronted be a fleet of Yemanesee fighter jets. Eveantually their luck will run out.

EL-AL should take this warning seroiusly for the sake of their pax and crew. I'd hate to hear on MSNBC that an EL-AL 747-400 was hot down with over 400 people on board.
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:27 pm

Airmale...do you have a source for this info at all? Was it from the Yemeni press? Israeli? Pakistani? I am just interested to read the actual wording of the "warning".

The Yemeni Government obviously feels that El Al has encroached on Yemeni airspace in the past. What the Yemeni's are doing is totally legal under international law...i.e. they are able to intercept the aircraft. They are not threatening to shoot the aircraft down...only intercept it.

The Israelis on the other hand........

"At 10:30 a.m. on 21 February 1973, Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114 took off on its regularly-scheduled flight from Tripoli to Cairo.
    
The plane, a Boeing 727, was being piloted by a French crew under a contractual arrangement between Air France and the Libyan national airline. After a brief stop at the city of Benghazi in eastern Libya, Flight 114 continued en route to Cairo with 113 persons on board.
    
As the airliner flew over northern Egypt on its approach to Cairo, it suddenly encountered a blinding sandstorm which forced the crew to switch to instrument control because the geographic features which ordinarily served as landmarks could not be discerned in the swirling tempest. A short time later, the pilot discovered that he had made a navigational error because of a compass malfunction: the plane had missed an air traffic beacon, and he could not ascertain its current location. He radioed the Cairo air control tower with an
urgent plea for assistance. The Egyptian flight controllers radioed back, giving him the information necessary to correct the plane's course and warning that it appeared that the plane might have strayed over the Sinai peninsula, which
at that time was occupied by Israeli forces.
    
The pilot immediately corrected the course, and LN 114 was heading back
to Cairo when the crew noticed two military jets approaching. The crew members expressed relief, for they believed that the jets were Egyptian fighters sent to escort their plane to safety at the Cairo airport. Such, however, proved
not to be the case: the two jets were in fact Israeli Phantoms, and, before the pilot
of LN 114 had been able to make out the "Star of David" markings on their wings,
they had directed three bursts of cannon fire into the Boeing 727, blasting it from the sky.
    
Flight 114 smashed into the Sinai desert only one minute's flying time from Egyptian-controlled territory, killing 106 men, women and children aboard.
    
At first, Israel attempted to deny its culpability for the tragedy. However, after 24 February when the Boeing's "black box" which had recorded the pilot's conversations with the Cairo control tower was recovered, such denial was no longer possible. The Israeli government then did a volte-face and revealed that LN 114 had been shot down with the personal authorization of Dado Elazar, the Israeli Chief of Staff. Commenting on the decision to blow up the civilian airliner, Golda Meir, then Prime Minister of Israel, showered Elazar with praise, and exulted, "I want to tell you that I don't just appreciate you, I admire you!"
    
The United Nations failed to take any action against Israel for its destruction
of the Libyan passenger plane, and when the 30 member nations of the International Civil Aviation Organization voted to censure Israel for the attack, the U.S. abstained.
 
OE-LDA
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Aviatsiya

Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:19 pm

The shoot-down of the Libyan plan is a tradegy, and the reaction of the Israely officials is as well. But there is no difference which country shoots down a civilian airliner, it's always a crime. It makes no difference if it's Russia, the USA, Israel or -possibly-Yemen. The fact that Israel shot down that 727 in 1973 does not justify any attack or aggression against an ElAl plane 28 years later.

Regards from Austria to Australia!

OE-LDA
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!
 
airmale
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 8:24 pm

Scott the news is from airlinersonline.com Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 9:50 pm

That Libyan plane flew over something very very sensitive in the Israeli desert.......(um what could it be?)

very sad and unfortunate.

Hope Yemen does not act as hastily as Israel did some 20 years ago.

rgds
russ
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:01 pm

And another one......

Date: 27.07.1955
Type: Lockheed L- 149 Constellation
Operator: El Al
Registration: 4X-AKC
C/n: 1968
Year built: 1945
Crew: 7 fatalities / 7 on board
Passengers: 51 fatalities / 51 on board
Total: 58 fatalities / 58 on board
Location: Petrich; N of (Bulgaria)
Phase: Cruise
Nature: Scheduled Passenger
Flight: Wien-Schwechat APT - Tel Aviv (Flightnumber 402/26)

The Constellation had taken off from Vienna at 02.53h for a flight to Tel Aviv. After the aircraft crossed the Yugoslav/Bulgarian border at FL180 it was attacked by 2 Bulgarian fighter aircraft. The plane descended until it broke up at 2000ft, crashing in flames. The Constellation had strayed off course because of an incorrect radio compass indication due to the effects of thunderstorm activity in the area. Believing to be over the Skopje beacon, the crew changed the heading to 142deg. At 40mls east off airways Amber 10, the aircraft entered Bulgarian airspace and was intercepted by the Bulgarian fighters. PROBABLE CAUSE: "The aircraft sustained a hit or hits which caused loss of pressurization and a fire in the heater compartment. The aircraft broke up in mid-air due to explosion caused by bullets hitting the right wing and probably the left wing together with a projectile or projectiles of large calibre in the rear end of the fuselage."

Follow-up / safety actions::
It was recommended that more VOR stations be used on airway Amber 10, instead of just one at the time of the accident.


Source: ICAO Accident Digest Circular 50-AN/45 (146-159)


 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:26 am

Aviastiya, the difference bet. "intercepting" and shooting down a civil airplane is not always as clear in the facts as in theory. The Bulgarians maintain still today that they merely "intercepted" the El-Al Constellation.

BTW, as a consequence of the bright policies of some Israeli visionaries (Peres, Beilin, Sarid, Savir & Co), it will soon be more dangerous for El-Al to land in Tel-Aviv than in Sanaa.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 4:11 am

i think this warning by yemen could be related to the current attacks on lebanese military units by israeli forces a few days ago. i´m not sure, but isn´t lebanon a muslim country? so is yemen, and israel is not, and so couldn´t it be, regarding all these religious clashes the near east is suffering from, that yemen has close ties to lebanon and so shows its disapproval of these attacks? perhaps it´s some sort of protest???

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 4:30 am

My God. Ignorance is truly bliss!
 
cedarjet
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:05 am

Since when is the Sinai "Israeli desert"?! People, look at a map before you post. The shoot-down of the Libyan 727 was a disgrace, it never left Egyptian airspace and was heading away from Israel. Golda Meir rejoicing over the deliberate murder of a hundred innocent civilians in foreign airspace says a lot.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:19 am

At least we know now how the Israelis got back at the Bulgarians for the El Al downing........they went and bought out Balkan Bulgarian Airlines come 45 years later and totally fucked the whole airline up, and have left Bulgaria without a flag carrier. - don't worry, my dear friend Letayush'ee Krylo. Let's hope the Libyans do the same with EL AL 27 years later... And talking about Libyan 727 please don't forget what it was there 30 years ago. A tragic accident in atmosphere of permanent war with too little space for any mistake for both sides... unless you are sure they shot it down deliberately, knowing it was a civil aircraft. Then nothing to discuss - a hopeless is a hopeless...
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:35 am

Since when is the Sinai "Israeli desert"?! - since 1967 until, I think, 1982 (85 finally?). Looking at the map is not enough, you know... Otherwise you should be very surprised about, say, the Berlin Airlift - looking at the map, what the hell was it?!!
 
hisham
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 6:31 am

It's amazing how biased people can be. Accusing Yemen for managing its air space and denying the israeli aircraft entry when the israelis SHOT DOWN a civilian aircraft. I'm not here to say that arabs are angels, they're not. But it's a sad thing that some people believe that Israel is an innocent victim of the "rogue" arab states. Rogue state, terrorist state, what is that supposed to mean? All sterotypes that mean nothing.
They closed their airspace for Israeli aircraft, so what? Arabs and Israelis are in a state of war, what' so surprising? But that still makes Yemen a "rogue" and shamful state. I'm glad one of these messages got deleted.

Hisham.
 
BigD
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2001 11:26 am

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 6:56 am

An awful lot of the discussion on this issue has drifted far, far away from airlines and aircraft related issues. I strongly suggest that the numerous political agendas being put forth on this issue be discussed elsewhere in a more appropriate milieu. Overly politicizing the issues discussed on this site is quite disappointing.
 
chepos
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 7:22 am

Aviastiya By no means Im I defending the Israelis , I'm just saying that it will be better for a tragic accident to be avoided.
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Marco
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Johnnybgoode

Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:20 pm

Lebanon ISN'T a muslim country. Half the population is christian and the other half is muslim, of course there are also the "druz" their religion is a mix of both religions. The government takes turns, one time its muslim and one time its christian therefore the official religions are christianity and islam. Please before saying something make sure its true because ignorance is really bliss here. Also if you wanna talk about politics go to the non aviation forum.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
hisham
Posts: 681
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:42 pm

Unfortunetly what you said Marco is not true. First, the druze religion is not a mix but an off-shoot of Islam. And the government doesn't take turns. The president must be Christian whereas the prime minister and chief of parliament are Muslim. Less than half the population is Christian now (~35%).

 Smile

Hisham.
 
kevin
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 2:05 pm

Bu no means I'm on neither side, but I lived in the Middle East for 8 years and I understand the situation a little beat.
As about Yemen it just took a wrong course because of its geographical position. It is not situated near to the Middle East conflict, so they can't bash Israel from near. Nor it is an oil rich country. India is near but still not near enough , so what to do? I regret that Yemen is following the foot steps of Afghanistan.
 
chepos
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:37 pm

O.K. getting to the religious part again. Marco According to the World FactBook Lebanon has a 70% percent Muslim population versus a 30% Christian population. And by the way Druze is a legally recognized Muslim group. More than half the population is Muslim so Its fair to call Lebanon a Muslim country. For ex. Malaysia has a Muslim population of 52% and it is considered a Muslim country so I guess its fair to call Lebanon a Muslim country too. So after all he wasnt saying an ignorant comment.By the way my facts were taken from the World Fact Book Almanac.
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
aio86
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 4:37 pm

O.K. please let me state a few things (I hope I know what I'm talking about, I've been studying it at school for so many years...). To start, Israel conquered the Sinai Penninsula (as well as the West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Hights) in June 1967 during the 6 Day War. The Lybian aircraft was invading Israeli airspace, and had it been the year 2001, this most likely would not have been a problem. However between 1967 and 1973 lay some of the tensist years between Israel and Egypt (& Syria). They were on the verge of war and Israel probably wanted to make it clear to the Arab world that its policies were to be taken serious. The Israelis probably would have shot anything down that flew into Israeli airspace from Egypt (even if it was over a desert practically barren with the exception of destroyed Egypytian military and air bases and skattered Israeli troops). 6 months later the Egptians and the Syrians started the Yom Kippur war (either Sept. or Oct. of 1973.)

The situation was tense then, and I believe that if an El Al plane had entered Egyptian (or Lybian) airspace (without IAF protection) would be downed just the same. Well hopefully Yemen could learn a lesson from Egypt and Jordan (both countries have non-stops to TLV), and try to leave Israel alone.

Sorry to not entirely speak about aviation.

-aio86
 
El Al 001
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 1999 11:50 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 5:19 pm

The fear in the Israeli government was that the Lybian plane is booby-trapped and is due to crash on an Israeli city. The truth is that the pilots were asked to identify and they didnt. They did penetrated to the Israeli airspace. The action Israel did was tragical, but there was no choice at the time for Israel on that matter.

On 1995, when a hijecked Iran 707 entered the Israeli airspace, the pilot identified and were told to fly to the Israeli desert air force base- "Ovda" as they were suffering from shortage in fuel.
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 6:43 pm

Lebanon is roughly 50% Muslim, 50% Christian. I doubt the Yemeni Government is too concerned with what is going on in Lebanon. My guess is some wannabe Yemeni government big-shot is trying to flex some muscles to gain support (EVERYONE in the Middle East hates Israel).

At the end of the day, it would be mindless suicide if the Yemenis shot down an El Al jet as they know full well Israel would annihilate their air force and bases to ensure it doesn't happen again. Only extremists would support such wanton terrorism. I think the emphasis is on 'intercept' as Aviatsiya has pointed out.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 6:57 pm

Im sure EL AL must have strayed into Yemeni airspace at least once for Yemen to have issued this warning Smile

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Marco
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 7:05 pm

Chepos: malaysia is malaysia, it has nothing to do with lebanon. In malaysia the official religion is islam in lebanon it isn't. Thats a fact. the official religions are christianity and islam therefore it was an ignorant comment.

Hisham: in lebanon they may be only 35-40% but there are 8M lebanese in brazil of whom mostly are christians...so it would only be fair to consider lebanon 50% christian and 50% muslim...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 7:14 pm

Lebanon is majority Muslim by 2-3 percent the rest are Christians Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 7:29 pm

come on, marco,
why you´re calling every article which is not exactly of your opinion or might not be true to the notch ignorant?????
i´m certainly aware that this is a highly delicate issue but i don´t think Chepos, Hisham, I or anyone else is insulting anyone be saying that we think lebanon is a muslime country. some sources say yes it, some say no. well, i don´t know for sure, i only wanted to draw a possible conclusion, but then you come and call our posts ignorant, come on!!!
and you´re really considering the lebanese people living in brazil???
Also if you wanna talk about politics go to the non aviation forum.
so you wanna say that this post is not about politics at all??????
marco, i honestly mean no offence, but if you´re referring to this topic as a delicate one yourself, then please stop calling some posts ignorant because that could upset some people very well...

let´s just hope that there won´t be any major clashes in this region for a long time and that peaceful co-existence between all these countries in the near-east will be restored quickly...

kind regards
daniel

If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
chepos
Posts: 5940
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Fri Apr 20, 2001 8:05 pm

OK you are taking into consideration the Lebanes in Brasil well I wont go far ,as Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic have Lebanese immigrants. As a fact one of my best friends Grandmother is from Lebanon and yes she is a Christian and the majority of the Lebanese here in the Caribbean are Christian (Catholic to be specific).But according to them why did they leavee Lebanon, because of religious persecution . For the fact of these Lebanese families living here Lebanon is a Muslim country . So It may be considered an ignorant comment for alll of you great Geographers , but hey you must admit Lebanon is in majority Muslim Like it or not. And a person said that everyone else in the Midddle East hates Israel that is not entirely true.
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
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RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Sat Apr 21, 2001 2:04 am

The majority of lebanon is now muslim but by maximum ten percent not more. Johnny I'm stating a fact when im saying the offical religions are islam and christianity, its not an opinion. THE OFFICIAL RELIGIONS, ok? so therefore lebanon is a christian and at the same time a muslim country not just a muslim one...
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Sat Apr 21, 2001 4:33 am

Cheops,

Before this topic gets deleted. I think it is a bit unfair to say that the reason the Maronites left Lebanon was because of religious presecution. In fact, as stated above, the President of the country has to be a Maronite under the current constitution (whether right or wrong) therefore the Maronites were in charge. It maybe appropriate to draw a conclusion to state that the War in 1982 that included the invasion of Lebanon by Sharon (the current PM of Israel) and the influx of the Syrains in the Bekka valley along with the financial influence of money and weapons from the Iranians to back the Shiites and perhaps you have a constructive argument.

Incidentially, it is VERY important to break down the argument further from just Maronite vs. Muslim. There are actually a very important distinction between the Sunni and Shiite Muslims in Lebanon. The war in 1982 involved all three groups against each other that lead to the present state of Lebanon today. The constitution (drafted by the French) states that the President has to be a Maronite, the Prime Minister is a Sunni and the Head of Parliament is a Shiite. At the time of drafting of the constitution following WWI this was considered equitable since the population was a slight majority Christain, followed by Sunni and Shiite (although that is very debatable). As the population shifted the Shiites wanted more power which the Constitution prohibted. During the war those Lebanese that had the means left to protect their families. In most cases, the Maronites were the most wealthy hnece why they were able to leave.The genesis of the conflict (of course this is oversimplifed but it is important to understand the context of the diaspora of the Maronites to France, Brazil, Detroit, etc).

This Yeman thing is not a Israel vs. Muslim conflict, it is politics and we really should treat it as such. Given the fact that most Muslim countries don't like Israel nor do they recognize them is not a basis to draw any undue conclusions. Although last time I checked Jordan and Egypt recognized Israel and Qatar has an Israeli trade office in Doha. Plus statements like "EVERYONE in the Middle East hates Israel" are just down right wrong. If school is to teach you anything it is to understand that gross generalizations make you look stupid, or ignorant if appropriate.

One things you can always be assured of is that there are no easy answers or any easy conclusions to matters when talking about the Middle East.
 
aio86
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:01 am

In 1982 there was a civil war in Lebanon. It was between The Christians and The Muslims. Beirut was practically destroyed. No side really won the war. The Muslims would have, had the Israeli army not occupied the southern part of Lebanon and shelled Beirut and Muslim army bases to bits. The Christians were very much disliked by the Muslims and many Christians that remained alive (not killed by Lebanon's Muslim Army), fled. That's why there aren't many Christians left in Lebanon.

I think the situation has died down now. Many airlines (like BA,LH,OS,AZ to name a few), are flying to Beirut. Also, the Israelis have pulled back from Lebanon after many many years of occupying it.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:34 am

I don't think any LY a/c ever invaded Yemen's airspace, that would be a very stupid and dangerous mistake by the crew.
Someone said that the Lybian 727 never entered Israeli airspace and was flying away from it, so how did the remains of the a/c ended on Israeli territory?
Two different Lebanese Christian immigrants told me that they left their country because they were discriminated and felt it was not safe for them to stay there. It is not about Lebanon's official religion, it's about the official religion in Syria.

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Guest

RE: To All Muslim Countries

Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:51 am

Hello all,

I am a muslim myself but I have to say that Muslim countries don't know how to solve a conflict (listen, if you are a fanatic, don't read). I mean, not all the muslim countries but some MiddleEastern, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.

Every time there is a conflict, they are so unorganized and ready to fight for nothing that they have to get some foreign involvment i.e. from USA. I have read in Pakistani newspaper Pakistan giving statements against Israel and saying that they are prepared for war against them. Well, when they can't even get Kashmir from a poor country like India and when they couldn't manage a poor country like Bangladesh, the hell should they care for Israel.

Beside, Yemen and all these aggressive countries must be warned that they can't even match Israel's US supported, Canadian manufactured, British supplied, French Trained, army.

Yemen should also consider the affect of their foolish statements. What will happen is that Israel will plea to UN and UN will put some restrictions on Yemen degrading the portrait of Muslims worldwide.
 
Marco
Posts: 4005
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2000 3:41 pm

RE: To All Muslim Countries

Sat Apr 21, 2001 12:35 pm

Aio86: I don't know where the hell you got your information from but my parents happened to be in that war and most of my uncles and aunts, and that's certainly not what they said. The Christians were fighting equally well as the Muslims and in the end no one won.

Everyone knows this, the Christians are strong in lebanon, and now the christian population is growing so it's very fair to say that the official religions of lebanon are christianity and islam (according to lebanon's government, would some of you like to change that?)
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:04 pm

GOOFY,

Good points on Arab military incompetence. Pakistan vs Israel? It would last an hour.

Nevertheless, I take issue with your conclusion that IDF is "US supported, Canadian manufactured, British supplied, French Trained, army"

Israel is yes, supported strongly by the United States (nearly 900 million every year in aid).

"Canadian manufactured" I'm not following you on this one. IDF and IAF fly mostly US and French airplanes. Not sure which Candian manufactured items your reffering to.

"British supplied" Are you reffering to uniforms? I don't know what this means. Supplied with food? arms? (most arms are actually manufactured in Israel like the Uzi submachine gun) so perhaps you could elaborate?

French trained? Wrong. In the 1950s, when Israel built its nuclear reactor at Demona in the Negev, there was French co-operation (they helped IL get heavy water), but that co-operation eneded about 35 years ago. Israeli army is trained completely by Israelis actually. Israelis actually instruct foreign countries on military training (south Africa and Taiwan to name a few).

for more info on Israel Defence Force, check out their web site http://www.IDF.il

rgds
russ
 
Guest

Twaneedsnohelp

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:36 pm

No, actually I was just referring to the support from the Western countries. I know that Israel is pretty much self sufficient.
 
Guest

RE: To All Muslim Countries

Sat Apr 21, 2001 8:07 pm

Goofy,

You should learn the facts first!
You wrote: "Beside, Yemen and all these aggressive countries must be warned that they
can't even match Israel's US supported, Canadian manufactured, British supplied, French Trained, army."
For your information:
Except for the the US, who provides the Israeli army with arms (as it does to Egypt and Jordan who signed peace treaties with Israel...) no other country you mentioned has anything to do with the Israeli army. Some of them, like Britain and France are not supplying Israel with arms because they are afraid of losing the lucrative Arab markets in the Gulf, Pakistan etc.

 
Guest

RE: EL AL Warned By Yemen

Sun Apr 22, 2001 1:53 am

flyf15 or anyone else,

Do you know where one can find a picture of the planes of the Yemeni air force online? Curious to see what thses Migs look like.

thanks
russ

PS: Somone earlier mentioned that LY planes are perhaps equipped with defensive capabilities should it need to react to an air to air attack. Is this right? Hard to believe, even in Israel.

PPS: Countries that ban Israeli over flights: Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya. Malaysia doesn't recognize the Jewish State either.