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lindy field
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Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:18 am

I was browsing around at www.airdisaster.com, and was struck by the fact that Pan Am lost 8 707s in various air disasters! Doesn't that seem like an appalling number? Anyone know of another airline that lost more of a single type of aircraft? I've listed the Pan Am incidents below.

12.08.1963 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-121
Elkton, Maryland, USA N709PA 81 killed.

09.17.1965 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-121B Montserrat, France N708PA 30 killed.

12.12.1968 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-321B Caracas, Venezuela, USA N494PA 51 killed.

07.22.1973 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-321C Papeete, Tahiti N417PA 78 killed.

11.03.1973 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-321C Boston, Massachusetts, USA N458PA 3 killed.

12.17.1973 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-321C Rome, Italy N407PA 30 killed.

01.30.1974 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-321B Pago Pago, American Samoa N454PA 97 killed.

04.22.1974 Pan American World Airways Boeing 707-321B Grogak, Bali, Indonesia N446PA 107 killed.

Good thing that they went out of business.




 
Guest

RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:21 am

Aloha!!

Man, dat's da bummahs!! I like 707's sad to see a tough girl take a dip! (Wait, no......well, you know what I mean, about the airplane, now a tough girl on the other hand....with, that's for non_av!!)  Laugh out loud

Aloha 737-200 (Loves his new home)
 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:34 am

I wouldnt jump that 707 is a disaster prone. Remember that 707 is one of early jet age so things can gone wrong and we all learned. Pan Am is one of pioneer for 707. Noticed that Pan Am's last crash was 1974 and nothing happened till they retired all 707's. Pan Am had quite alot of aircrafts involved in accidents and they keep went on. Unfortunately, it was the last crash (explosion by libyan terrorists over Lockbrie) end the fate of Pan Am.

I would think that DHC-6 Twin Otter is disaster prone since they already had over 200 accident behind DC-3 that already over 1000 accidents since 1940's.
 
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lindy field
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:42 am

I realize that sometimes bad luck plays a role, and I realize that air safety has taken great strides.
Do you know which airlines had the worst luck with a particular aircraft type? Who crashed all those Twin Otters? Who crashed all those DC-3s?

 
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lindy field
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 11:51 am

Hmmm... apparently Aeroflot crashed 21 separate An-24 aircraft. Ouch!
 
Guest

RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 12:05 pm

China Airlines crashed 2 A300-600R in a row in 4 years.

1994.4.26 20.06 (LT)B-1816 crashed at Nagoya, killed 264.
1998.2.16 20.06 (LT)B-1814 crashed at Taipei, killed 202.

By the way, any one notice the similarties between these 2 crashes?
 
B747-437B
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 12:14 pm

Of course, when it comes to widebodies and crashes, no one is quite in the same league as Korean Air. I think they lost one every single year in the 90s, or close to it...
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
An-225
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 12:47 pm

I flew in An-24 more than in any other aircraft. I am still alive.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
T prop
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RE: Twin Otter Disaster Prone?

Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:42 pm

As far as the Twin Otter being disaster prone, just look at the missions these aircraft are called upon to fly.
I'm sure if you flew any other aircraft into the places and in the conditions where Twin Otters go (and there is no other aircraft as versatile) they would have similar records.
I read recently that a person working on one of the polar caps had to be evacuated for medical reasons. 80 degrees F below zero and an ice landing, what kind of airplane do you think they sent?
I suppose that because Twin Otters are called upon for tough missions it is inevitable that more will be lost.

T prop.
 
Guest

RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:52 pm

I flew in An-24 more than in any other aircraft. I am still alive.

Look, no one said they crash 100% of the time. Just 50-60%. Anybody can get lucky.

Skippy
 
VirginA340
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 2:45 pm

Korean Air and Aeroflot has a whole bunch of crashes

PAN AM lost 5 747-100s

Clipper Victor in Tenerifee

Another 747 was blown up by terrorists(empty) in Cairo.

Then there was a 747 that landed in Hawaii after a small bomb went off injuring 12 killing 1

Then there was a landing accident in Pakistan. The damage was so servere that the plane was written off.

Then there is Lockerbie the 18 year old 747 was blown out of the sky. All 259 pax and crew inclding 11 on the ground were killed.

PA had great pilots but their security was horrible especailly at FRA where the bomb was loaded on a PA 727 to be taken to LHR where it was loaded onto the 747 after it flew in from Malta on an Air Malta flight. No thanks to 2nd in command Martin Shugru, CEO Tom Plaskett and Head of PA security Dan Sonenson in the case of PA 103.
"FUIMUS"
 
Wasilenko
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 6:37 pm

When all you people said Aeroflot had a lot of accidents did you consider the size of the fleet before the break up of USSR.
Aeroflot was divided into 32 major devisions and about 100 small units and operated over 3000 aircraft!
 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 9:23 pm

So far I counted that Aeroflot has 372 aircrafts written off!

Air France 55
Air India 55
Unknown 51
Avianca 41
VASP 41
Pan American Airways 40
Philippine Airlines 39
United Airlines 39
US Navy 39 (civil aircrafts only)
Eastern Airlines 36
Ethiopian Airlines 35
TWA 34
Aerolineas Argentinas 32
British European Airways 32
US Air Force 32 (civil aircrafts only)
Varig 31
American Airlines 30

I had input all since 1950's into my excel. I ll give other interesting information later.

 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 9:45 pm

Based on incidents (written off) only:

JET:
707 = 155
Yak-40 = 87
DC-8 = 83
737-200 = 79
Caravelle = 63
DC-9-30 = 62
TU-154 = 53
TU-134 = 50

PROPS
DC-3 = 1127
Curtis C-46 = 386
DC-4 = 243
DHC-6 Twin Otter = 221
F27/FH227 = 205
DC-6 = 179
V. Viscount = 139
AN-24 = 120
L-1049 = 109
AN-12 = 95




 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Fri Apr 20, 2001 9:53 pm

Country: (based on written off incidents at since 1950)

USA = 913 (Florida=93, California = 91, Alaska = 86)
Russia = 319
Brazil = 260
Colombia = 237
Canada = 234
England = 154
India = 151
Bolivia = 143
France = 115
Indonesia = 104
Mexico = 88
Philippines = 85
Argentina = 84
Spain = 71




 
RIX
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 12:47 am

When all you people said Aeroflot had a lot of accidents did you consider the size of the fleet before the break up of USSR. - not at all, if they are immature ignorant teens looking for a place where they may say something "funny".
 
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lindy field
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:03 am

To set the record straight on Korean Air; there are 11 crash records for Korean Air Lines in the airdisaster.com database.

11.19.1980 Korean Air Lines Boeing 747-2B5B
Seoul, S. Korea HL7445 15 killed.

09.01.1983 Korean Air Lines Boeing 747-230B
Sakhalin Island, Russia HL7442 269 killed.

11.29.1987 Korean Air Lines Boeing 707-3B5C
Andaman Sea HL7406 115 killed.

07.27.1989 Korean Air Lines McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30 Tripoli, Libya HL7328 81 killed.

11.25.1989 Korean Air Lines Fokker F-28 Fellowship Seoul, S. Korea HL7255 1 killed.

08.10.1994 Korean Air Lines Airbus A300B4-622R
Cheju, South Korea HL7296 No fatalities.

08.06.1997 Korean Air Lines Boeing 747-3B5
Agana, Guam HL7468 228 killed.

08.05.1998 Korean Air Lines Boeing 747-4B5
Seoul, South Korea HL7496 No fatalities.

03.15.1999 Korean Air Lines McDonnell Douglas MD-82 Pohang, South Korea HL7570 No fatalities.

04.15.1999 Korean Air Lines McDonnell Douglas MD-11 Shanghai, China HL7373 3 killed.

12.22.1999 Korean Air Lines Boeing 747-2B5F
Surrey, England (Stansted Airport) HL7451 4 killed.



 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:18 am

Lindy field,

you could also look up on Aviation Safety Network which has more databases than in Airdisaster because it includes written off. Accord to Aviation Safety Network, it has total of 17 incidents with KAL. Look it up at http://aviation-safety.net/database/operator/KAL.shtml
 
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lindy field
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:26 am

Thanks for the tip, Western737. I notice that the Aviation Safety Network database includes a number of incidents from the 1960s and 1970s not mentioned at AirDisaster.
 
GOT
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:28 am

Let's just not scale up these disasters too much. Bad things happends but in aviation it's VERY unusual. Remember that.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
OO-AOG
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:31 am

The Comet must be the winner
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
lewis
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 1:59 am

Yes, BOAC as well as other companies lost many Comets until DeHavilland (or Havillant) found the flaw that caused cracks in the square windows.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 4:09 am

Air India (AI) has had 55 crashes? Perhaps u mean Indian Airlines (IC).
 
RIX
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 4:16 am

BOAC as well as other companies lost many Comets until DeHavilland found the flaw that caused cracks in the square windows. - no, only three (two for sure) of them were lost because of the problem, and only in BOAC.

The Comet must be the winner - of course, not.
 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 4:46 am

OOPS!!! Yes, you are right, Indianguy, it is Indian Airlines, not Air India.

My apology and thanks for correction.
 
ScottB
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 4:49 am

I'd add that the F-28 has a pretty disturbing record considering the number built - 35 accidents (according to the Fokker Aircraft page) of 243 built - close to 15%.
 
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lindy field
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 4:54 am

Doesn't that approach the proportion for Tupolev 144s flown and crashed out of the total number built?
 
Western737
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:12 am

So far the percent between incidents and built, the highest in jet age goes to Convair 880/990.

Convair 880 17 out of 65 = 26%
Convair 990 11 out of 37 = 29%
 
RIX
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 5:53 am

17 Tu144s were built, 2 crashed (AFAIK).
 
VirginA340
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 10:30 am

US Airways has lost enough aircraft to start a small airline

1 F-100
1 DC-9-30
2 737-300
1 737-400

All within 5 years two within one year in 1994.
"FUIMUS"
 
jupiter2
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 2:15 pm

Guys your stats are all very interesting, but go back through them and see how many of these accidents were caused by mechanical faults, or extreme weather conditions and how many were caused or at least attributed to pilot error.
Now I don't know for sure what the results would be, but I would be reasonably confident that the vast majority would be attributed to the guys up front,------- rightly or wrongly does not really matter.
Also delete terrorist acts, not exactly the fault of the aircraft or the pilots are they, but you may be able to blame the airline as a whole for poor security !!!
Just remember stats can be misleading until you really dig into them.
Also as was said about the Twotters, the same can be said about F28's, they were basically built to be flown into areas where you wouldn't normally see jets and sometimes came off second best, but as I said above how many can be attributed to pilot error, such as not de-icing your aircraft ???
RL
 
servisair
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RE: Most Disasters For Airline + Aircraft Type

Sat Apr 21, 2001 8:25 pm

BOAC 'only' lost 3 Comets before the fatigue problem was found and illiminated. I don't recall hearing of any other BOAC comet crash after then.
30 Yeras in the Biz...