Emile
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2000 10:42 pm

KLM New 777.......

Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:35 pm

it,s confirmed klm preference goes to the triple 7 over airbus 340.
when and if that, going to happen still has to be seen.
other rumour is that they might start buenos-aires again.
maybe becauce our new princes Maxima



emile
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:39 pm

Is that finally the long awaited and confirmed order, or is this the next unconfirmed but "sure as hell" rumour? We have seen many, many, many rumours regarding the KLM order.....  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:46 pm

Emile, can you please give your sources as neither boeing nor KLM confirmed anything and untill they haven't, it's just a speculation. Please, next time give your source so it can be verified or wait until KLM announce the order (due in June).

Gerardo, you say it right, an unconfirmed "sure as hell" rumour.

Regards
 
Emile
Topic Author
Posts: 194
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2000 10:42 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sat Apr 28, 2001 7:08 pm

www.crewstart.com and then go to chat and bulletin board.
 
GOT
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 6:44 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sat Apr 28, 2001 8:06 pm

Well, until I've seen the order confimed at either Boeings or KLMs website I would say that it's still a rumor.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sat Apr 28, 2001 11:31 pm

This is still a rumor, there has been an intense competition between Boeing and Airbus for this order, and nothing is yet definite. When the order is finally make, it will be a large one, since not only will the MD11's be replaced, but also the 747 Classics and maybe also the 763s which will start coming off-lease in about 5 years time. (KLM has said that it is not completely satisfied with the 763 - it may have something to do with its cargo capacity, not sure.) Now the 772/773 is in the lead, a few months ago the Airbus prroducts (a mix of models in the 330/340 families) was prefered. In the end, I think Boeing will get it; but Airbus is going to work very hard to sign up KLM.

I think KLM AMS-Buenos Aires service will return in the near future; the "Maxima Express".
 
Guest

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:02 am

Great move on their part, I would take a GE90 powered 777 over an underpowered CFM56 powered A340-300. KLM would have not prefered the RR Trent powered A340-500/600 being that most of their fleet is powered by GE engines.
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:48 am

What is Maxima express?
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 1:05 am

Rafabozzola, Maxima is the future queen of the Netherlands as she will marry the Dutch crown prince next year. As Maxima comes from Argentina, the possible AMS-BUE service will probably called the "Maxima Express".

Regards
Laurens
 
Guest

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 1:11 am

TEDSKI,

Has anyone ever told you your comments about the 'underpowered' A340-300 are becoming REALLY boring? You keep repeating yourself pretty much in every post you make.

Greetings Big grin
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 1:35 am

Its confirmed by someone who has this info from someone who first drank a lot of beers in a bar at CUR and who probably isn't in the decision making unit anyway. Phil Condit's visit to AMS (nice BBJ) some weeks ago seems more interesting than this person in CUR.

Anyway something must come as KLM already fased out two B747-300 full pax (PH-BUP is already in Mojave and the PH-BUR will follow before the end of may) and haven't heard anything on a reduction in capacity.

BTW does anybody know which corporate jets Airbus or ILFC uses (can't find them in my books)? Surely they have some.

Regards
Laurens Janssen
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 2:53 am

Who among the flying public or the airlines gives a hoot if the A340 is perceived as being underpowered? If the aircraft makes money for the airline, has a good dispatch reliability and is fixed with the usual accoutrements that the flying public wants today, the fact that it has a slow climb rate is a moot point.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
WiLdmanVzla
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 12:17 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 2:57 am

When KLM will make public their order for new aircraft?... It will be nice to see Airbus' planes in KLM livery!!!!! (but they'll order B777, I do agree with that).

******
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 4:13 am

According to the last report from KLM (which was some months ago) KLM plans to announce the order in June (maybe at Le Bourget Airshow). However, KLM has postponed the announcement several times now.

Regards
Laurens
 
Guest

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 9:44 am

IT´S SUCH A PITY KLM IS GETTING RID OF THEIR 747, THEY´VE BEEN FLYING THEM TO MEXICO CITY FOR OVER 27 YEARS.

TODAY KLM OPERATES A DAILY NON STOP SERVICE FROM AMSTERDAM TO MEXICO CITY IN 747-400
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 5:36 pm

Jaraco, KLM is not getting rid of their B747-400s (KLM will receive 2 additional B747-400s this year and 2 later). Only the older B747 will leave the fleet.

Regards
Laurens
 
QantasA3XX
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2000 3:20 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 5:41 pm

Most probably it will be the Boeing 777 !! I havent heard the offical news yet
Can someone help me out here ?
How many B742 and B743s passenger series are they currently operating ?

Thanks
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 6:52 pm

At this moment KLM has 7 B747-200 (PH-BUK/L/M/N/O/R/T) and 3 B747-300s (PH-BUU/V/W) flying in passenger configuration .

In addition KLM has 2 B747-200 freighters (PH-BUH/I).

Regards
Laurens
 
lima
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sun May 30, 1999 11:37 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Sun Apr 29, 2001 10:37 pm

I hope they can restart Buenos Aires, it is a big market in South America and it is a pity seeing KLM loose market while competitors are increasing their share (Air France, Lufthansa, British Airways).

More attention should be taken to high end business passengers. Hope KLM can MAXIMAse their strategy there.

Saludos,

Lima
 
KLMBLue
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:36 am

LJ

Sun Apr 29, 2001 11:47 pm

Where did you get all your information? I am really interested!!
KLM
 
KLMBLue
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:36 am

LJ

Sun Apr 29, 2001 11:49 pm

Hey LJ... were did you get all your information? I really want to know because KLM is my favorite airline!!
KLM
 
KLMBLue
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 5:36 am

Sorry About The Repeats!

Mon Apr 30, 2001 12:01 am

as the title says... sorry again
KLM
 
Guest

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 3:39 am

Well if KLM does order the 777, they should order the 777-300! They're big jets and they're good for summer services to Mumbai, Delhi and Calcutta, when lots of people go to those destinations. I know that KLM prefers Boeing's 777 over Airbus's A340, no doubt about it! Again, I think KLM should order the 777-300.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 4:08 am

I think it'll be the 777 but whoever gets the order isn't going to make much money on it as KLM will have ruthlessly played one supplier off against the other.

Bizarre fact: a few months ago I had a rant about how the 747-300 would be unsuitable for freighter conversion cos there would be no point in hauling the weight of the stetched upper deck which is useless in freighter config. Turns out it enhances the flying characteristics according to a recent magazine article.

Tedski, the A340 is not underpowered. Please stop going on about it, it ain't true and it makes you sound like you have a problem.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 5:58 am

All I know is a GE90 powered 777 with over 90,000lbs thrust from each of it's two engines, has better takeoff and climb performance with a full load on board over the CFM56-5C4 powered A340-300 with only 34,000lbs thrust from each of it's four engines. I am glad Airbus woke up when they were designing the new A340-500/600 models and added the high thrust Rolls Royce Trent 500 engine to compete with the new 777-200LR & 300ER models.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:24 am

Again with the underpowered A340? I am a Boeing fan, and usually prefer their products, but it is most unfair to keep stating that the A340-200/300 is underpowered. It just is not true and the A340 is an excellent performing aircraft that does its job very very well, much to Boeing's distress.

It is actually more correct to say that the BIG TWINS, from both Boeing and Airbus, are overpowered; if a twin engined airliner would loose power in one engine, the one remaining must be powerful enough to power the aircraft on its own until the aircraft could be landed safely; it also must have enough power to continue a take-off if an engine should fail during that critical portion of a flight. Think about it.
 
alitis
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 11:20 pm

Tedski

Mon Apr 30, 2001 8:17 am

Enough already!
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 10:25 am

When Airbus designed the A345/346 from the A343, Airbus specified engine thrust increase disproportionally higher than the MTOW increase (2/3 thrust increase vs 1/3 MTOW increase). So, the underpower argument is not totally unfound.

What I would say to Tedski is most of the airlines select an aircraft because of the capabilities of the aircraft not because of the engine the aircraft has.
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 5:53 pm

KLMBlue, I get my info from the Dutch spotters lists and Bloomberg (and various other sources, but these two are the most important). Furthermore, my job gives me easy acces to analysts reports.

Anyway, according to a press report on 1 feb this year a KLM spokesman said that "All options are currently being reviewed while a formal plan will be presented within the coming months". Allthough no specific time has been mentioned (they're not going to postpone it again?) I think the time they release their annual results (17 May), release their annual report (29 June) or the annual shareholder meeting (25 July) seems a suitable point of time to announce the order (or at least say something about it).

Regards
Laurens
 
overseasBHX
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2001 10:01 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 6:07 pm

I really hope KLM gets back to EZE. A world-class airline can't be absent from a world-class market, Maxima or no Maxima.

As ever,
 
UA777
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 4:40 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Mon Apr 30, 2001 11:19 pm

.
 
MAC100
Posts: 262
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 7:53 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Tue May 01, 2001 2:09 am

...underpowered?? Last time I checked the A340 could fly just fine. And it's quiet too! I am not a big fan of these things, but they fly just fine!
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: KLM New 777.......

Tue May 01, 2001 9:57 am

Everything is relative. The A343 has a thrust-to-weight ratio similar to the B707, but less than the B744. The aircraft is certified to fly, then, it, of course, can fly fine. OTOH, if the lack of power was not a concern, tell me why Airbus decided to use an engine that is 2/3 more powerful than the previous one while the takeoff weight of the A345/6 increases by only 1/3 over the A343? The more powerful the engine, the heavier the engine and the more fuel it will consume. So, if it's not necessary, you don't want oversize you engine. Airbus learned from their A343 experience and decided to use a relatively more powerful engine on the A345/6.
 
Spaceman
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 3:28 pm

RE: KLM New 777.......

Tue May 01, 2001 11:37 am

Airbus decided to go with bigger engines is because of the increase cargo, and the increase range on the aircraft.  Wink/being sarcastic

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