dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 4:12 am

In South America only AR still operates its 747s to MAD, MIA and LAX I guess.

In the USA UA and NW also operate such aircratf..

In Europe BA, AF, LH, AZ, IB, KL and others too..

Why dod this airline keep old planes like those in their fleetss. The same thing happens with the DC-10. Thank god BA, AA, and RG don´t use them anymore.....
 
JETPILOT
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 4:43 am

Old? The 747 200 was built up until 1990.

JET
 
ti717
Posts: 220
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 4:49 am

Does BA have plans to us their 742 for the new four class service??
I read somthing about a few months back.

TI717
Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
 
TOMASKEMPNER
Posts: 389
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:13 am

Japan Airlines is the only carrier operating the four series of 747, weel they have a 100 jumbos on their fleet.

747-100
747-200
747-300
747-400

all used in domestic and international routes
 
godbless
Posts: 2680
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The Lufthansa 747-200

Sun May 06, 2001 7:22 am

The ones in the LH fleet are not that old yet. I think they are from 1986 and 1987. Some 737-300s in their fleet are that old too...
 
philb
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:24 am

Is this forum full of teens to whom anything older than 5 minutes has to be junked?

The 747-200 is an excellent aircraft, many of which are 20 years plus and still have thousands of useful hours left. The younger models will still be around up to about 2020.

The reason airlines keep aircraft is that, once they have been paid for and written down in the books of the owners, the only cost is maintenance, therefore they earn bigger profits - even if the engines are a little bit thirstier than more modern versions.

Aircraft built in the last 40 years or so have been built with design lives of up to 30 years and many have had these lives strtched byreworking and modernisation.

 
ibe1238
Posts: 133
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:42 am

IBERIA is planning to change its 747-200. Nowadays they have sold one unit and they have leased three 747-300 from AIR ATLANTA.
They are comparing several models but it's not a secret that that most reliable candidate to substitute the 747-200 is AIRBUS 340-600. It would be a wise decition, so all long-haul fleet would be AIRBUS and as the B-757 will be substituted by A-321 IBERIA's fleet would be all AIRBUS( as I think that the MD_87 will also be replaced by A-318 or 319, but there are still so "young")
Manuel
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1978
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:57 am

Air India has several -200s in its fleet; some were delivered in 1979 and, therefore, have several years more useful life in them.

KLM still has its -200SUDs, which were retrofited with digital cockpits at a cost of US$54 million.

Other airlines: Corsair, Virgin Atlantic - not to mention a host of freight operations.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
dutchjet
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:57 am

A small correction, UA has retired its last 742 aircraft (in Nov/Dec 2000 I think).

As stated, many 742s are not even 15 years old yet, and have many years of flying left. Sometime people here forget that aircraft are very, very expensive, and and each 744 costs in excess of $100 million. Airlines cant trade their aircraft in every 3 or 4 years like some of do with our cars.

 
dellatorre
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Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 8:11 am

maybe for some awkward people from this forum planes last forever in an airline fleet. As far as I know technology makes news things look acient history in a minute!!! Accept the truth and realize that with the globalization we won´t see airlines keeping old planes such as 747-200,747-100(almost extinct), DC-9(horrible), DC-10, and even some 737-200 until 2010. Maybe some small airlines with no conditions to follow the modernization such as Russians and fellas!!!!! Aeroflot is a exception!!!!!! They like their aircrafts even knowing they are far behind from Boeing and Airbus. It´s a matter of valorization of their cultures and cheaper to run!!!!
Anyway, some members of this Forum still stuck in the past!!!!!! Of course airplanes like those nemed above had been big hits in the last 30 years ,but now!!!! A 777 or A340/A330 can´t be compared to those mentioned. It´s like a brand new BMW compared to a old version!!!!
New seats, more space, PTVs, internet acces, and a whole bunch of new stuffs not mentioning the aircraft for itsef.
I´ll bet when you have to face a 12 hour flight between Frankfurt and Singapore you rather travel nicely in a comfort airplane then in a old one with no space to stretch you legs!
Passanger is the key for airlines!!!! If you have loyal "customer" you can avoid many problems!!!!!

Hope A380 will prove that to you all that think awkwardly like PhilB!!!!!!

CIAO!!! Dellatorre!!!!!!


 
philb
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 8:52 am

Dellatorre,

I thought teenagers didn't believe in fairy stories and make believe.

Your lack of knowledge, reality and experience is showing.

What you say about Aeroflot, with a growing western and plans for more new Russian aircraft is just more garbage.

If you want to come onto this forum to ask questions and learn and express INFORMED opinions, fine.

But don't start shouting the odds from a position of ignorance. As for me thinking awkwardly, that's me and most of the industry then.
 
Starship
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 3:26 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 8:54 am

SAA still have five 747-200s in the fleet

They are:
ZS-SAN Lebombo
ZS-SAP Swartberg
ZS-SAL Tafelberg
ZS-SAO Drakensberg
ZS-SAM Magaliesberg

These aircraft are used on routes to Europe, the Far East, Australia and South America as well as regionally, as and when required.

As PhilB so rightly points out, there is nothing wrong with an old aircraft. As long as it is properly maintained - as are the SAA fleet - they can last for decades. Furthermore seat pitch has got nothing to do with the age of the aircraft. That is determined by the airlines requirements!

Behind every "no" is a "yes"
 
hugo
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 10:47 am

PR still have 2 747-200's
 
Victor Hotel
Posts: 289
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 11:14 am

QF still use a few 200's. Lots of airlines keep these aircraft like as mentioned before they are not that old still(some of them anyway). They can also be used on domestic routes where the capacity is needed but not the range, or even medium to shorter haul international routes.
VH
 
fspilot747
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 12:27 pm

The 742 is a great plane. I know for a fact that LH flies them, I have flown them on LH. They aren't that old. Real nice. The cockpit is the only thing that is getting a bit old, with all these new planes with the beautiful glass cockpits. Would a pilot prefer a glass-cockpitted 744 over an older 742 cockpit? Anyone know? I would assume they would prefer the 744, but I have read in Flight International that some pilots still preferred the older cockpits because they thought they were more reliable.

-FSPilot747
 
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United_fan
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 12:32 pm

United hasn't flown 200's since October 2000.

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Scott  Smile
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
aio86
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 3:40 pm

Although El Al wants to get rid of them soon, they are still flying on some flights around the world.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 4:08 pm

ok I admit that the B747-200 is not the state-of-the-art airplane anymore, technologically speaking. Many of the very big airlines are getting rid of them, because they have higher operating costs. However, a new B747-400 costs, depending on configuration up to 200 million bucks, the 773 even more. So to replace a fleet of 10 742, u need a little cash. And if you try to replace a 10-year old plane for 200million, you have to give VERY good reasons to your supervisory board, so that they approve it.

The argument that the B742 offers less comfort because
she (or it) is old, is (excuse the expression) BS. You can easily integrate the latest entertainment system into the 742 as well, and seat pitch dropped quite a bit during the last couple of years. Also the seats got smaller.

SailorOrion
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 4:43 pm

Im surprised no one yet mentioned Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) and Saudi Arabian Airlines, both of which operate the B747-200.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 6:50 pm

Instead of age in years, i think it would be better to measure an aircrafts age in terms of the number of cycles (T/o and ldgs) it has had.

AI has around 4 747-200's that of 1979ish vintage. But the no of cycles these 4 have flown are quite low.

On the other hand an airline like Aloha which operates very shorthaul routes may have 5 year old aircraft that may have accumulated more than twice the no of the cycles that the 747-200 has in 20 years!
 
United Airline
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 6:51 pm

Don't forget Air Atlanta, Qantas as well as Virgin Atlantic.
 
donder10
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:25 pm

Alitalia, Koreanair,Iranair
 
VH-EBV
Posts: 72
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:34 pm

Dellatore,

Based upon the level of fact you have given us in this posting, I just gave you a 1 out of 6.

To summarise:

1. Many 747-200s are not old aircraft.
2. Aircraft can be refitted and so can be as comfortable as brand new aircraft (seat pitch, PTV etc).
3. New aircraft are expensive and therefore airlines do not replace them until they have to.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Sun May 06, 2001 7:37 pm

VH-EBV, were you quoting me?  Big grin

SailorOrion
 
frequentflyer5
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 1:58 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 12:23 am

JAL and ANA still use them too...
 
airmale
Posts: 7125
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 12:44 am

KHI747 arent the SV 747s the 100 version Confused
.....up there with the best!
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 12:58 am

We're dealing with aircraft that cost $ 150 million a piece here - not PCs that cost $ 1200 that you can junk after 6 months. Additionally, aircraft technology can't be compared to the computer chip - there are infrastructural, economic and technical limitations on aircraft technology that are not inherent to computers.

Airlines will dispose of an "old" 747-200 if maintenance costs make it uneconomical to fly them any more. Also, flleet commonality, engine commonality, costs of cabin upgrades, amortization costs figure heavily in replacement decisions.

I'm afraid you just don't replace an aircraft just because something nicer and shinier is sitting in the big airplane showroom unless it makes financial sense. I guess what the post-MTV generation don't understand is that whereas Brittany Spears will be considered an old hag by 15 yr olds by the time she is 20, you can't make the same analogy for an airplane.

Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
na
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 1:11 am

Old?
If you would come up with this topic in ten years from know it would make sense, but in 2001 the 747-200 is not a aircraft you can call outdated. It had a production span of exactly 20 years and even though 50% of them are getting tired now the other half has about 50% of its life still ahead. If a aircraft is "old" or needs retirement is depending more on the airline and its maintenance than on the age in numbers. There are a lot of 767s/757s and A300s that you can compare the 747-200 with.

Give me the choice to fly to New York in a well-kept LH 747-230B or in a UA or CO 777 I know what I prefer.
 
corsairf/a
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2000 12:01 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 3:59 am

Hi,
Corsair is flying 2 B747-200, and one is due to leave the fleet and be replaced by a SQ B747-300 (It will be the fourth one)
 
VH-EBV
Posts: 72
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 9:15 pm

SailorOrion,

Yes, summarising what you and others have said which are all good points!  Smile

VH-EBV
 
Tg 747-300
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 1999 6:08 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Mon May 07, 2001 9:59 pm

Fanofjets: Are all the KLM 747-200SUD's equiped with "new" instruments in the cocpit. When did that happened, and does this means that their 747-300 also have this kind of cockpit ?

I have flown the 747-200 and 200SUD recently, and they are very great. Comfort isn't a matter of aircraft but of the AIRLINE. (The nwa742 was very nice, while the KL747-200SUD wasn't that good due to poor leg room. As far as I know, thet hasn't anything to do with the 742)

Tg 747-300 "keep the 747 classics fly"

intentionally left blank
 
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RayChuang
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Tue May 08, 2001 2:01 am

Actually, the 747-200 has quite a lot of life left.

There are two futures for the 747-200:

1. An upgraded passenger airliner. The 742 could be rebuilt and recertified with 747-400 cockpit, new fuel-efficient engines, 777-style interiors and Aviation Partners winglets. This could allow the 742 to fly well over 7,000 nautical miles.

2. A freighter conversion. In fact, many 742's are being converted to freighters, and companies like Boeing's own conversion center in Wichita, KS and Evergreen Aviation's Pinal Air Park are solidly booked up with 742 freighter conversions.
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Tue May 08, 2001 2:03 am

JAL, PIA, PAL, NW, Alitalia, Iberia, Lufthansa, Air France, Qantas, ANA etc.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
PolAir
Posts: 870
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 2:20 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Tue May 08, 2001 3:14 am

Wait couple more years. It will change. I know all airlines are getting rid of their DC-10. I dont like them either. 747-200 is still prette useful aircraft, but Airbus is takin over the whole industry and in couple of years 747-200's will disapear too. New A 340-500 and 600 will take thier place.
 
SkyWings
Posts: 25
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RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Tue May 08, 2001 3:22 am

I believe NW has one of the largest 747-200 fleet in the world...Including the Freighters they have more than 30 200s flying around the Pacific.
 
Guest

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Tue May 08, 2001 3:46 am

Here's a list for you guys:

Qantas
KLM
Virgin Atlantic
Northwest
British Airways
JAL
KLM
Lufthansa
Air India
Corsair
Air Atlanta
SAA
EL AL
PIA
Alitalia
Korean Air
Iran Air

Let's not forget the cargos here:

Atlas Air
Cargolux
Polar Air
Evergreen

Am I forgetting any?

Looks like we'll be seeing the 742 flying for many years to come with all these operators.

BTW,

PolAir, Airbus is taking over the whole industry? LOL!


Rgds...
 
joe
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:17 pm

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Wed May 09, 2001 9:36 am

The JAL B747-200 are in great shape. You'd be surprised at how clean our log books are.

And, by the way, the gents(sorry, no ladies in our -200 group) call them "The Classic".

 
Guest

The Full List Of 742 Operators For You

Wed May 09, 2001 10:19 am

Here is my list:

Qantas
KLM
Virgin Atlantic
Northwest
British Airways
JAL
KLM
Lufthansa
Air India
Corsair
Air Atlanta
SAA
EL AL
PIA
Iberia
Alitalia
Korean Air
Iran Air
Atlas Air
Cargolux
Polar Air
Evergreen

I forgot Iberia on my last post, it's been added.

Am I missing any?
 
A330-243
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 5:36 am

RE: What Airlines Still Fly With 747-200?

Wed May 09, 2001 10:46 am

Your missing Air France which was mentioned in the original post !

Oh, well easy mistake......they only operate about 20 pax and cargo versions  Big grin

Put Saudi Arabian, Olympic, Aerolinas Argentinas, All Nippon and Philippine in the list too. I bet there are more.

Yes, the B747-200 is a great aircraft, i'm lucky to see it twice a week at my local airport.

Hmmm.... but now we have A340-600 on the scene and soon B777-300ER.

I've heard BA pilots on the scanner, on first contact with ATC reporting aircraft type as "classic" in other words a B742. Also I recall listening to the approach freq and a B741 flight reported a/c type as "Jurassic".