sdate747
Posts: 259
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Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 3:44 pm

 Smokin cool Hi folks,


I have recently travelled on a UA 757 and a UA A320. I found that for reasond unknown, that the A320 was much quieter (in regards to cabin noise) than the 757. Now this may or may not have something to do with Stage 3 compliance, but I am assuming that this is not an issue. Does anybody have any data ( decibels ) to show how Boeing and Airbus planes stack up?


I know that cabin noise is of special concern on long haul flights, and especially to attract first class and business class business. Do airplane manufacturers offer special noise dampening packages? Can these be fitted in the higer classes only to avoid extra costs?


Now to the question of 744/777 families in noise vs. A330/A340. Since these 2 families compete for most long haul business does anybody know how their noise ratings compare?


Finally, in your personal experience which one is quieter - Airbus or Boeing? I personally fins that airbus is quieter, but I have never crossed an ocean on an Airbus before, only on 777 and 744. I think that after a few hours you get conditioned to the noise and it just gets blocked out. But nevertheless, what are your opinions? and also, how important would you rate cabin noise issues?


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Udo
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 5:53 pm

I know that A320s and A340s are extremely quite, but I cannot say if they are quieter than B737NGs or B777s. I'm not sure about that, maybe we should go out with some electronic stuff and check it out.
If there's a difference, it's not much.

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
windshear
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True

Tue May 08, 2001 6:30 pm

I too made that discovery.
On my trip I started out in a A320, no thunder like sounds during climb?!!
To my amazement no rumble noise when reverse kicked in???

Then on the home trip I flew the A330 very quiet, reverse sound...Almost non excistent...

I have never tried the 777, but in comparens with the 744 they are way more quiet...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
zauberfloete
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 6:44 pm

I once had a flight to atlanta on a 777, and an hour later a connecting flight to europe on an A340.

The A340 was much quieter then the B777. Throughout the whole flight envelope. I think the A340 ist the most quiet jetliner inside the cabin, it´s in my opinion also much more quiet then the A330.
There is very little difference between the B777 and the A330.
The B757 is relatively loud inside the cabin (compared to 737 or Md80 or A320), I think because of the large engines.
 
LZ-TLT
Posts: 427
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A320 And Quiet? Ridiculous!

Tue May 08, 2001 8:20 pm

I chanced to fly SOF-DUS with Lufthansa in March with an intermediate stop and a/c swap in MUC. SOF-MUC was served by a 737-300 and MUC-DUS by a 321-200. I simply CANNOT agree, the A319/320/321er having a lower cabin noise level than the 737's. The engine sound was well to be heard and became somehow annoying even on a flight lasting just about one hour. The 737 was much more quiet when it came to inflight cabin noise. The only thing I agree is the Boeing being somehow louder when the reverse kicks in, but the 319/320 are about as loud when they're doing an engine spoolup.
 
Western737
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 9:01 pm

I am not able to tell the difference on sound level in the aircrafts but to feel the aircraft while flying, I find A319/A320 more annoying. It is like you are sitting on vaccum most of the flight. Fokker 100 is even more annoyed.
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 9:02 pm

I had the chance to fly an A320-200 recently and a 737-800.
I was very impressed by the cabin of the A320, it was very quiet indeed, even on takeoff and for cruise.

The 737-800 had a very nice cabin interior but I must disagree with the post above, the cabin is just noticably louder than the Airbus.

Regards
Trevor aka Airbus_A340  Smile
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LZ-TLT
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 10:45 pm

Let's say..in an A320, I hear the engines ALL THE TIME. In the 737's I flew(300er and 500er series), you even could forget there were an engines(OK, there ARE engines, but in cruise this became acustically evident only when were rpm changes. I agree with Western737 on his opinion that the airbus is more annoying.
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 10:53 pm

This thread won't get anywhere else than A people defending A and B people defending B...

Funny how aviation enthusiasts call the noise of an engine annoying!!!

And anyways, the airframe doesn't make a sound, so you might want to discuss which engine manufacturer has the noisiest and quietest engines. Not Airbus and Boeing.

For me, the louder the better!!! I hope the day will never come where you won't hear any engine noise at all...
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

I think that the A340 is very quiet compared to the A330, B744 and DC10.
But overall I don´t care too much because if the cabin is quiet you might get more annoyed by crying Babies, loud headphones and snorring passengers.
 
sdate747
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 12:41 am

But, the airframe plays a significant role in dampening noise and vibrations produced by the engines.
And after all, the engine makers work hand in hand with Boeing and Airbus to meet their customers' demand. I would still say that noise is pretty igh up on their "to do " list
 
Leej
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 1:10 am

What anybody fails to mention (or recognise) is that cabin noise can vary considerably depending upon where you are seated. Generally if you are up front - no noise - at the back - lots of noise. I remember flying on a charter 727 back from Greece, and was in the front row. I couldn't tell that the engines were running - let alone at full power for take off. The only indication was the acceleration being felt and the scenery whizzing past! Last year on a 320, I was seated last but one from the back and you could hear the a/c noise over the IFE headsets. We made a fairly short stop landing at LGW (I think to get off the runway quick) and the reversers were definately heard - very loudly and rather unexpectedley for this particular airport with plenty of runway. Perhaps the best way to tell is by getting similar seating allocations on the different manufacturers, and then post the results!
 
JAL
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 1:27 am

Not sure but maybe.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
D L X
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 1:30 am

I hope you all realize that it is the WIND that you hear loudly in cruise, not the engines.

Beyond that, there are very many variables that come into play to determine aircraft noise. Some of them are

1) Engine rating (amount of thrust)
2) Engine configuration (design)
3) Fuselage design
4) SPEED
5) Altitude
6) Where you are in the cabin
and if you're on this forum, apparently,
7) Whether you're from Europe or America.

Aparently, this is a factor because all Europeans claim the Airbus is quieter. Obviously, those crafty engineers at Boeing have developed a way for a seat to tell if its occupant is European or not, and if so, direct more noise to them on all Boeing aircraft. [/sarcasm]

My position is that the 320 is quieter than the 737NG. (But, the 737 is faster and generates more wind noise.) The 340 is LOUDER than the 777. (And it's slower at that.)
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 1:30 am

I think the A340 is more quiet than the 744, but barely. The 717 is the most quiet airliner currently. A320 and 737? Can't tell, although the high-pitching whining noise on A320 can get annoying. A330 and B767, can't tell.
 
LZ-TLT
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 2:33 am

DLX:
"7) Whether you're from Europe or America. "
I'm from Europe, but I consider the Boeing being quieter, so it play NO role at all.

As for the seating - I was always seated at the wing root (737 - seat rows 12-14, A320 -seat rows 10/13)

It may be the wind, though, which mixes up with the "rumbling" engine noise component. The airframe may sure play a role here, since we humans can perceive noise also thru induced vibration of of the skull(the frontal bone(os frontale) the temporal bone(os temporale) and the whole skull roof(vertex) in particular). It is a not to be underestimated factor - some people are more sensible or better sensibilized to this "bone perception". It's not a speculation, just try driving your car for a day when a muffler is somehow shot or defect, you'll notice having a totally different feeling of the noise, which couldn't be caused alone by the changed tone and noise tembre. The problem is, the organ where sonic vibrations are translated into neuronal impulse and passed to our almighty brain Big grin just can't tell bone-conducted noises from regular, air-conducted ones.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 3:16 am

LZ-TLT,
Sarcasm also means you are not expected to reply to this kind of remark since it should not be taken too serious.

Anyway, this is all very subjective; the only thing that can't be lying is the dB(A) level measured to certify the plane since all those measurements are done in the same well prescribed way.

It shows:
the A340 being quieter then the B777.
the A319/A320 being quieter then the B737NG.
the A321 being louder then the B737-6/-7/-8, but estimated to be quiter then the B737-9 (when it will do its final test).

Any comments welcome, except on the results! They are simply a compilation of the official dB(A) levels as published by ICAO and used by airports all over the world to determine the planes they can accept with regard to specific local noise regulations.
 
ptica2000
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 3:22 am

As much as I know, Airbus is selling A340 as the quietest long haul aircraft and A320 as the quietest short/medium haul aircraft.
I think that we had this topic for several times and Airbus allways won over Boeing
 
mt99
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 3:32 am

i've been once on a 777, and once on a A340

The 777 was a UA ORD-LAX flight and the other a AF ORD-CDG i sat at aprox the same distance from behind teh wings and i am sure that teh 340 is much quiter that the 777
Step into my office, baby
 
LZ-TLT
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 3:35 am

Sabenapilot,

I posted my last reply keeping in mind that it is INDEED subjective, and think also, It must be clear enough to understand. As for the db(A) measures, they are objective, but just don't depict the overall noise perception a real passenger/ test person would get, and that is indeed subjective and depending on such factors as overall predisposition/sensibilisation to noise and so on. I just wanted to mention this point with my post(guess I've made up my mind since my first posts on the topic and thought it over). Indeed, this subjectivity factor is one thing worth investigating, but it will need a long-time study(or a VERY EXTENSIVE crossection study) along the passengers(imagine it like filing a survey after the flight or such a survey one included in your flight magazine), VERY CAREFULLY DESIGNED survey questions and a lot of statistic work in order to get usable results and be able to implement them properly.

To get back on the topic - the bone-perceived noise is proven by further studies to play a great role in the psychosomatic(ie, one could just ignore it or recognize but not respond to it, another people could perceive it as annoying or develop somatic symptoms(sickness, somnolency and so on)).
 
BWIA330
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 5:24 am

I have flown on Canada 3000's A330-200 from YYZ to POS and the engines were really silent. Only on takeoff you'll feel the power and hear a little bit of the engines but once in the air, its silent. I have flown on their A320-200 also and its also silent. I recently flew on US Airways 737-400 from BUF to CLT and from CLT to PBI. And it was really loud. I like to hear the loud engines on takeoff but the A320 is much quieter. Most recently my trip a few weeks ago to FLL from YYZ on Air Transat's 757-200. Those RB211's are really loud and do get annoying in the air. I firmly beleive that Airbus aircraft are much quieter. I need to try to A340 and 777 to see which on is quieter.
 
donder10
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 5:27 am

The 757 may be loud but they climb very quickly out of LHR when I'm there
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 5:40 am

Who cares about how much noise the 757 makes, I just care about the take-off and climb power of that rocket!
 
Kangar
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 5:43 am

It's a function of where you sit on the plane, up front is notably quieter than down the back,- unless you sit in the identical position on each aircraft, you're not able to categorically state which is noisier.
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 7:54 am

It shows:
the A340 being quieter then the B777.
the A319/A320 being quieter then the B737NG.
the A321 being louder then the B737-6/-7/-8, but estimated to be quiter then the B737-9 (when it will do its final test).


Well, I agree that factually the 340 is quieter than the 777, but I have some doubts on the rest of the info stated. Personally, I find 737NGs to be less noisy (both on ground and in air) in terms of engine noise compared to the A320. I do notice about the the V2500 powered A320s to be noiser than the CFMs. Why would the A320 with the older CFM56-5 engine be quieter than the brand new CFM56-7 which is standard on the 737NG? I mean, it just does not make sense.

-Tom

 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 8:09 am

last row in an A340-300 vs. B747-400 vs. B777-200
the A340 is by far the quietest then B777 then B747

Near Front in A330 vs. B777 vs. B767
the A330 is much quieter than the Boeings.

middle A319 vs. B737-700
Airbus is quieter.
 
wingman
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 10:16 am

Boeing claims the 777 and the 737NGs cruise at faster speeds than their counterparts from Airbus. Does the ICAO compare intreior noise levels at ideal cruise speeds or interior noise levels at identical air speeds? My point being that higher air speeds will generate more noise all other things being equal.

I've flown all these planes and the 340 is very quiet indeed. But nothing is as quiet than an MD-80/717 up front. Nothing.
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 12:10 pm

I think it has to do with where your sitting. Durring my trip(s) on a C3 A330 last summer I noticed it is much louder in the back than it is up front. It's been a long time since I flown a Boeing(762), so I cannot make a good comperisin(spelling?).

However since Airbus is claiming that their aircraft have the quitest cabin in the sky, there must be some truth to it;even if its only a few decibels.
 
Skystar
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 3:55 pm

The A340 is quieter, and I'm fairly convinced of that having flown both aircraft within 40mins of each other, and sitting in the same relative position.

Airbus promotes that the A340 is the quietest in its class, and Boeing does not contest that - says something.

As for the 737NG being noisier than the A320 because it's faster, really, a poor excuse. M0.78 vs M0.785, not even 1% faster.

Someone quoted the ICAO figures, really they shouldn't be considered given that these figures are about EXTERNAL noise, not INTERNAL noise. How loud an aircraft may be outside, has little bearing on how quiet it could be inside (BAe146/Avro RJ an example).

Without the doubt, wind is the primary cause of noise during most periods of flight.

Cheers,

Justin
 
rlwynn
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 9:59 pm

There are no seats quieter on ANY plane than in the front of an MD 80/90 series jet. Except he 717. If the 318 ever flies it will not be as quiet as the 717.
I can drive faster than you
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Wed May 09, 2001 11:29 pm

Actually, people may perceive the A320 Family planes as pretty quiet probably because of the engine nacelle design used on the A320 Family series. It may mean the mixing of hot and cold exhaust gases result in better sound reduction.
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Thu May 10, 2001 1:32 am

The A320 definitely has a quieter cabin in cruise, but when that baby takes off, I love the chainsaw-like grinding noise of the V2500s on United's.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Thu May 10, 2001 3:13 am

I know that the ICAO values are for EXTERNAL noise only, but can anyone come up with objective values for INTERNAL noise?
To put it simple: if it is quiet outside, it'll be very hard to have it loud inside...
___________

Also, please note that aircraft noise is made up of more then just enine noise!
Did you know that on any plane in landing configuration over 85% of the noise is aerodynamically generated? Flaps, gear, slats, ailerons, spoilers and fuselage all make a lot of noise when put in a fast airflow.
That's why the B737NG, even with the newer CFM engines, is noisier then the A320 with the older CFM engines. One shouldn't forget the B737NG uses a lot of parts of previous B737 versions, parts that were designed 35 years ago and which could very well use some reshaping in windtunnels and on computers.
 
lymanm
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What About...?

Thu May 10, 2001 7:47 am

The CRJ is the quietest jetliner out there.
buhh bye
 
Red Panda
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RE: LZ-TLT

Thu May 10, 2001 8:10 am

LZ-TLT, I feel very sorry about your experience with A320. Actually I've flown on A320 3 times, 2 by NWA and 1 by SSV. Out of these 3 experience, I find A320 has a very quiet cabin EXCEPT once. I don't know what'z wrong with that noisy A320, but the captain told us that the APU is not functioning. I don't know how does it has to do with the noise level, but that is a really horrible experience to me. However, the other 2 times with A320 were very quiet, smooth and pleasant. So, I think it is not fair to judge the noise level by just one flight.

Hope this help
red panda
 
Turtle
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Thu May 10, 2001 12:54 pm

The back row of the MD-80 is the most quiet of them all.
 
sdate747
Posts: 259
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2000 4:55 pm

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Thu May 10, 2001 4:21 pm

By the way - how do commercial airliner sound ratings
compare with biz jets such as the BBJ, Gulfstream,
Learjet, Falcon etc...?
 
Guest

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Thu May 10, 2001 7:07 pm

Unless someone posts the exact results of the ICAO dB tests, we don't know what the numbers are. The difference could be one decibel, or 10.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Fri May 11, 2001 2:02 am

Lowfareair,
I don't have the ICAO list here at hand, but the differences will certainly be very small.
Why?
Because the db scale is based on logarithms (spelling?)
In other words: 89dB for instance is twice as loud as 85dB.
 
A330/B777
Posts: 163
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RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Fri May 11, 2001 5:57 am

I think this issue is all really trivial. Regardless of the volume of the sound(to an extent, mind you), it is the sound itself that is tolerable or not. I have flown on the following planes:

A319,20
A330
A340
B727
B737Classic
B757
B767
B777
DC9

I can say without hesitation that the quietest, most pleasant sounding plane to my ear was the A340. It goes without saying that the 777 was also very quiet. I just prefer the more relaxed sound the A340 had. Besides the 727 and DC9, the rest are pretty much about the same to me. The 757, 767 and A320 being my favs though.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Are Airbus Planes Simply Quieter?

Fri May 11, 2001 6:23 am

because all Europeans claim the Airbus is quieter

i'd say the same about SOME Americans. And the reason why MOST Europeans is that the Airbus series is more likely to take you to your destination than a Boeing, so they have more experience on Airbus aircaft.

Being part of the Airbus team i have flown on all Airbus models. I have to say that i can't really tell much difference between Boeing and Airbus. I remember in a Qantas B744 the engine pitch being very uncomfortable so as i couldn't get to sleep, but not so on others.

The A340 i have to say is the quietest i have flown for its size, i do like those engines (plus the fact that they are all low powered), but it is true to say it is not only the engines but the whole design of the aircraft which affect the noise you hear in the cabin.

The A300 is probably noisier than a B767, an A310 probably the same as a B757. The A320 on a short runway makes alot of noise when full flaps are deployed.

One of my best experiences was on a Fokker 100, which is, a very quiet aircraft. The Bae146 is quiet from the outside, but its a different story inside the cabin (although i do love the whine of the hydraulics).

EGGD
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