BA
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 7:59 am

What airports have you been to, where aircraft rarely thrust reverse?

Here in Denver thrust reversing is VERY rare. The reasons are because the air is very thin from the high altitude. Therefore, thrust reversing doesn't have much effect.
The MAIN reason also is because the runways are 12,000ft. long, so thrust reversing is not necessary. Although few flights, when we have touched down a bit late, the pilot thrust reversed.

What other airports rarely have aircraft thrust reversing, and what is the reason?

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 8:14 am

BA, you're quite confused. At Denver Intl thrust reversing is used very very often, I can't think of the last time I didn't see it used with 737+ size airlines. And I've seen my share of landings at DEN.
 
IFlyADesk
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:36 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 8:23 am

Confused indeed. There is a trade off to thrust reversing, brake wear. Thrust reversing is a standard landing/roll-out procedure. Oh sure, DEN has 12,000 ft runways, but that also adds to the taxi time back to the terminal. (Most pilots get paid by the block hour)

The only times I can recall when reversing was minimized is at noise-sensitive airports at night, especially when trying to beat, or hide from busting an airport curfew.
 
BA
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RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 8:32 am

Idle Thrust Reverse is used ALL the time at DEN, which is different than thrust reversing.

Idle Thrust reverse is when the pilot slides the thrustreverse panels on the side of the engine, and it is use to stop the thrust coming out from the back.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 8:36 am

The only flight I flew into Denver where they used thrust reverse was on a UA DC-10 from ORD.

All other times they used Idle Thrust Reverse.

Kind regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 8:45 am

Errr...here is a better explanation of Idle Thrust Reverse.

It cuts the air flow going back and flushes it through the thrust reverse vents, while thrust reversing is when the engine re-directs the thrust forward to help slow down the plane, this is when you hear that loud rumbling noise.

I appologize, I didn't make it clear when I said "Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare."

Take care.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
IFlyADesk
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:36 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 9:05 am

Close, but no cigar again. The use of idle reverse thust is dictated by speed.

A quote from the DC-10 FCOM (Flight Crew Operating Manual):

"Apply reverse thrust as runway and conditions dictate."...

"At 80KIAS smoothly move reverse thrust to reverse idle detent. At 60KIAS, move reverser levers to forward idle position."

(KIAS = Indicated Airspeed in Knots)
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 9:11 am

IFlyADesk,
Interesting, I respect your knowledge on thrust reversing. I was saying the "general" idea of thrust reversing.

Anyway, thanks.

Kind regards. (added you to respected users list Big grin)
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
A330/B777
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2001 4:48 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 9:26 am

Been to DEN a few times latley, and all three times no reverse-thrust was used, at least none that was audible in the cabin. You could hear the brakes though!

By not going into full-reverse thrust, you save engine cycles. With carbon brakes now the standard, there is much less break wear, and it is economical to use them in place of reverse thrust when ever possible. Although, maybe it is something that only certain airlines do, I've only ever wxperienced it on UA.
 
KCLE
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 11:03 am

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 9:32 am

On the contrary, at KCLE, reverse thrust is used all the time. The MD-80s are usually the loudest because they use almost full reverse thrust!
 
Guest

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 10:22 am

I can say that I have never been on a flight where thrust reverse was not used on landing...I always thought that reverse thrust was standard procedure on landing. I would suspect landing with with just flaps and spoilers would be murder on the tyres and the brakes. Also, thrust reversing wouldn't add on to engine cycles would it? I mean, it's a standard part of the landing, so wouldn't it be included in that cycle?
 
Guest

RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 10:45 am

We used idle-reverse thrust when landing in Honolulu on a United 747-200 last March. Maybe it was because we landed on 8L and the United terminal (Diamond Head Concourse) is way at the end of the runway.
 
BA
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RE: Airports Where Thrust Reversing Is Rare.

Wed May 09, 2001 10:56 am

Flyboy767,
The thrust reverse component in engines is one of the most expensive parts of a engine.

Also, maintaining thrust reversing parts is very expensive, and quite difficult to maintain, and it DOES add to the engines cycles. They need to be maintained quite often, and a I said, it takes some time.

So, if there is no need for thrust reversing, its not used. It saves lots of time and money.

Really, a plane can land at an airport without using thrust reversers. The average runway length of an airport is usually enough. But again, it depends on the airport.

Many places now, they are starting to use Idle thrust reverse. It is not effective as thrust reversing, but it is time and money saving.

Once, on a DC-10 when we landed at DEN, it touched down a bit late, so we used full thrust reverse, and boy it was loud!

Gosh I love thrust reversing. Big grin
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran