philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 3:39 pm

According to Delta spokesperson Meghan Glynn, Delta will shut down Comair if the pilots' vote rejects the National Mediation Board's proposals for ending the strike.

"People may have taken their last Comair flight, that's how serious this is"
 
DELTA777
Posts: 637
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 8:45 pm

why? i didn`t think it was that bad. wow

D E L T A 7 7 7
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 8:47 pm

That would be too bad for the non-pilot employees who depended on their Comair paycheck to pay the rent.
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 9:42 pm

This has been going around Atlanta in rumor form for several weeks. As the rumor goes, Delta would have ASA finance the purchasing of as many of Comair's RJ's as it could afford, and slowly re-open CVG and MCO as ASA hubs.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 9:50 pm

So ALPA kills another airline.......

And nobody wins......
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
mls515
Posts: 2955
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 9:58 pm

Wouldn't the ASA pilots flying the new CVG and MCO routes be considered scabs anb be subject to all that union bs?
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 10:04 pm

Which is more expensive for DL, do you think? Financing a large amount of RJ and facility purchases, or giving the pilots a little more in the contract?
 
Guest

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 10:10 pm

Actually, Delta Air Lines owns both ASA and Comair.... there would be no financing involved in moving aircraft from Comair to ASA....just a trip to the paint shop to spray over the Comair titles and lay on an ASA emblem.

And if Comair no longer exists, then ASA pilots wouldn't be flying 'struck' work.

 
tomindc
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 1999 11:16 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 10:28 pm

Do ASA pilots belong to the same union as those at Comair?
 
mls515
Posts: 2955
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 10:41 pm

Question: Me and my brother have Comair tickets for the end of July. If Comair is shut or even if the strike is still on, are we just "screwed" or will Delta try to accomodate?
mls515
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 10:53 pm

Delta will accomodate. Keep an eye on the situation and if DAL announces a shutdown, call them IMMEDIATELY to have your flight changed.
 
miller22
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 11:14 pm

Comair probably won;t be shutdown, but it will be a shadow of the airline it used to be. This may lead to it shutting down however. Don't forget that Comair's negotiators are the some negotiators that were on the Eastern negotiating team when they went on strike, effectively crippling Eastern airlines and ultimately closing the airline.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 11:18 pm

Maybe the union big-wheels are putting Comair employees on a suicide mission to see how far they can push a company before they take the tent poles down. Hmmm. Anyway....

Supposed DAL shuts down Comair and puts the operation under the ASA umbrella, I suspect the non-pilot employees of Comair would simply have new patches sewn on their uniforms, but does anyone know what the striking pilots would have to go through to get their jobs back as ASA pilots? Rehiring? Would DAL punish them and make them do a song and dance to fly as ASA?
"Shaddap you!"
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Thu May 10, 2001 11:34 pm

I was talking to a freind who works for the FAA this past weekend. He said that Delta is going to start putting the regional jets into the ASA system and close down Comairr. He also said that all Comair pilots won't be working for Delta ever again.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 12:35 am

DL just announced new service from CVG to BTV (Burlington, VT). Guess who's flying this route....not Comair!!

Instead, this route will be flown by ACJet...3 times daily with the Dornier 328 Jet. Looks like DL is already planning for Comair's demise.
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 12:38 am

I've heard similar rumors. Heard that Comair management had informed some non-pilot employee groups that it may be wise to submit an application to ASA.

But we all know how this industry is with rumors.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 12:40 am

That still doesn't answer the question of having ASA pilots fly struck work... if this really was what would happen (kill Comair, enhance ASA), then that would be the effect, right?

What about having Skywest do it? I know they're not O&O by DL (yet), but at least it wouldn't be as dicey with the unions...
 
Guest

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 12:54 am

Skywest and ACJet are not Delta subsidiaries..

I'm curious though, DL now was ASA to fall back on should Comair be shut down, but, what's to keep the ASA pilots from striking ASA in this manner? Are ASA pilots better paid? Organized by a more sensible union?

regards
russ
 
miller22
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 2:18 am

Rumors are flying in Cincinnati that Leo Mullin is in town to make an important press conference that could change Comair in a big way.

Also: Yesterday outside the Holiday Inn where pilots were voting, hundreds of other comair employees surrounded the entrance chanting "save our jobs!" I guess the pilots don't have the employee backing they thought they had.
 
herbie99
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 4:43 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 2:24 am

There is a 4pm news conference with Frederick Reid, Delta's President and COO, at CVG about Comair's future (or lack of one).
 
miller22
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 2:36 am

aha.

Thanx for clearing that up herbie
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 4:10 am

According to some of the ASA employees here in ATL, their pilot contract comes up next year and they too are planning to strike.

Both ASA and Comair are ALPA represented. A post on another site from a Comair pilot said that more than 100 Comair pilots have found work at other carriers during the strike, possibly upwards of 200 have moved on.

A few years down the road ASA and Comair were to have been merged and oprerated under the DL Connection banner. This would be a difficult thing to do with the merger of seniority lists and renegotiating new union contracts.

This move facilitiates what was to be inevitable. Comair will cease to exist and CVG flying will be divied up between Mainline DL for long haul and heavily travelled routes, ASA and ACJet.

The RJ's that DL returned to Bombardier on behalf of Comair have been "remarketed" to both ASA and Skywest.

ACJet also operates a few Canadairs, and should be able to pick these up at a rapid clip from Bombardier. More than likely all of Comairs employees will be picked up by ASA. They will be paid at ASA pay rates and will have their seniority intact.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 4:16 am

Delta's ownership of both Comair and ASA is under the banner of Delta Connection Inc. So if Delta does decide to shut down Comair, all they would really have to do is surrender the Comair operating certificate to the FAA. Essentially Delta already owns Comair's fleet, at least in terms of financing. I heard rumors six months ago that Delta was considering merging ASA and Comair into a single entity as opposed to two airlines owned by the same company, operating under the Delta Connection name. As for who would fly the Comair aircraft (that is if the pilots decide to return), I could see the reserve crews at ASA and possibly Delta being called in to operate flights until a significant number of pilots are hired to handle flights. This will definitely mean that a relaunched, rebranded Comair (as ASA) would take some time to return to the schedule that they were operating pre-strike. The only people that are to blame for the eventually folding of Comair is the pilots themselves. They had the chance to save their company, but got too greedy. I know that sounds a little mean, but they are going to affect a lot more workers than just themselves.
 
cv640
Posts: 843
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2000 8:10 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 7:15 am

Actually ASAs contract comes up soon and they are asking for exactly what Comair is asking for. So moving operations to them would be tough, that plus they are hard pressed with just the growth trhat they got now. Skywest is soon to vote on ALPA represntation and they are leaning towards having them come on field so it would be tough to just transfer to either operator. ACJet is at the max of their expansion, really can't handle anymore with Delta and United, training backlogs for 6 or more months so would take a while to move in with any force.
As for whether or not it would be struck work according to the MEC it would be. Actually according to law it would be too, unless a new completely independent owner with no backing from Comair or Delta started up. They also couldn't have any financing from either, so would be tough.
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 9:14 am

this is crazy!!!!!!
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 10:35 am

For all you airline mogul entreprenuers - Now would be a good time to start up a nice little regional airline - I have an idea that if ASA pulls the same stunt Comair did, Delta would be glad to bring you into the "Delta Connection".

I really don't get it - no wage must beat a low wage. I wonder what the Comair pilots will say when Comair is shut down and the strike benefits end.

Hey Tex...wanna change our concept, non union airline to use RJ's vs 737's? We can sell it to Delta and use that money to start up Pioneer.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2586
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 10:46 am

A non union airline? In today's politically correct age? HA! Good luck! I'll fly you if it ever happens.

Im going to play airpro 2000.
N/A
 
miller22
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 11:23 am

I'm in. RJ's are about as good as your going to get, since you can buy Comairs terminal, but 737's don't have a place to park unless you plan on using Delta's gates, which won't make them too happy.

You're right, this IS crazy
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 11:50 am

I believe JetBlue is non union. For now.
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3903
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 12:33 pm

CV, I'd like to see some citations for your claim that bringing ASA or SkyWest to CVG after a Comair bankruptcy would be "struck work. I don't buy it. If the Comair legal entity ceases to exist, there isn't anything left to "strike." That sounds like union propaganda to me.

And if US labor law did mean that bringing a new airline organization, owned by different owners, to fly specifically as Delta Connection, was "struck work," that sounds pretty anti-American to me. It means that the Comair pilots, not Delta shareholders, in fact own Comair. IF they don't get what they want, they can "poison the CVG well" more or less forever. Which is completely un-American, and very Sicilian.

That claim pretty much puts the lie to all the Comair MEC's bluster the past few weeks that "collective bargaining must mean that both sides have something to lose." (Said bluster was delivered in response to Aviation Week questions about presidential emergency boards). If Comair's pilots can poison a major hub forever (remember, CVG cannot be profitable w/o regional feed acc to Delta) then they effectively have complete control over the situation, and nothing to lose in any event.

There is no way Delta could come out ahead, other than to prevent an industry-wide demand for 85 percent increases in RJ cockpit costs by ALPA. Which as I said, is a Sicilian, not American, way of doing things. So I'm not buying, unless specific cites from the US Code are shown.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
miller22
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 6:42 pm

I don't think the poisoning of CVG will be done by Delta, but rather by ALPA. I agree thats its ludicrous, but look what ALPA has already done to over 2000 people for greed. Now how angry are they gonna be if they lose this strike in a big way by Delta closing Comair?
If Comair shuts down, look for ALPA to declare war on Delta, and that means declaring pretty much ALL CVG routes "struck work."
If it were up to me, Comair would survive, and ALPA would be shutdown.

I can dream  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Fri May 11, 2001 8:35 pm

And if ALPA views all CVG flights as "struck work" and any pilot flying them a "scab", does that make CVG residents who fly Delta "seeping wounds".
 
caetravlr
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Sat May 12, 2001 2:09 am

You know... You have to wonder, if Bush did not assign a Presidential Emergency Board to this, could it be because this is a catalyst for consolidation of the entities under the Delta Connection umbrella? I mean, you know Bush will do anything that big business asks for him to do, so maybe Delta wanted it this way? The pilots could be digging their own graves. This is probably why the unions all were pushing Gore propoganda to their constituents during the last election.

Just my two cents, no insult meant to anyone.

And another note, for any of you Delta FAs, who want to be represented by the AFA, remember that this is the same union who recommended that the UAL flight attendants ratify a 10 year contract... And look where they are now, wishing they could do something about their measely wages....

Again, just my two cents. I really hope that all of this is resolved in a manner that is good for all parties involved.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Sat May 12, 2001 2:44 am

The Comair thing is under the radar screen at the White House because it is not national in stature. CAE, I have to dis-agree about your remark that Bush does anything that Big Biz wants. Several recent WH announcements seem to reflect that he is his own man. Ok, that said...you are right, it sure looks like Comair pilots have dug themselves a deep grave. Must be some sort of communal employment suicide.
 
caetravlr
Posts: 859
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:19 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Sat May 12, 2001 3:03 am

Tan_flyr,

Thanks for your comments. You are right, Bush does not do ANYTHING that big biz asks for, but he is very economy oriented, which I like about him. I was just playing the conspiracy theorist at that point. As someone pointed out earlier, the economics of the Regional airline industry do not support paying the pilots mainline pilot salaries. To be the highest paid pilots in their sector, as well as hopefully some other benefits, should be all they expect or hope for.

I miss having their service out of CAE... I usually choose the mainline flights, but it was good to have that option.

CAETravlr
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Sat May 12, 2001 3:20 am

The Comair thing is under the radar screen at the White House because it is not national in stature. CAE, I have to dis-agree about your remark that Bush does anything that Big Biz wants. Several recent WH announcements seem to reflect that he is his own man. Ok, that said...you are right, it sure looks like Comair pilots have dug themselves a deep grave. Must be some sort of communal employment suicide.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Sat May 12, 2001 3:22 am

sorry forthe 2nd post..power burp!
 
miller22
Posts: 599
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:48 am

RE: Delta To Close Down Comair?

Sat May 12, 2001 3:54 am

Just returned from Cincinnati:

Delta IS NOT BLUFFING!

There are two manila envelopes in the headquarters. One is labeled "Pilots end strike" and the other "Contract not voted in." Whatever the announcement is tomorrow dictates which envelope is opened. Obviously the envelopes are figurative, but the point is that Delta has a plan for either course of action. Either way, Delta wins. If the pilots sign the contract, they lose less.

By the way, the second ALPA billboard put up has tomatoes plastered all over it. This billboard was a replacement for the one which had "Pilots Suck" spray painted across it.

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