TOMASKEMPNER
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 3:21 pm

Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 4:05 am

I think that the Bermuda II agreement between the US and UK is useless now a days, it was good in the time that PAN AM, TWA and BRITISH were the only ones in this market.

For example, they should study closer and switch SEATLE-HEATHROW frequencies for ATLANTA-HEATHROW frequencies.

Reasons :
Atlanta is one of the busiest airports in the world and has no connection to Heathrow, airports like JFK,ORD, MIA, LAX and SFO that are at the same level or under ATL have more than 1 daily flight to HEATHROW.

Seatle is not that busy, although is a very wealthy city due to all the software companies based there.

I most say that Delta and Continental should be allowed at Heathrow when the new terminal is finished.

 
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lindy field
Posts: 2939
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:52 pm

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 4:11 am

And when those Delta and Continental planes land at Heathrow, the "Delta Force" and other US military commandos should disembark from the planes and take over the whole airport, thus allowing Northwest, Southwest, Midway, and Alaska jets to land there too!

I just realized something. You wrote: "I most say that Delta and Continental should be allowed at Heathrow when the new terminal is finished." Don't you understand?!! It will never be finished!!!
 
desertjets
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 4:25 am

A revision of Bermuda II will not be happening anytime soon. There is the issue of space and slots at Heathrow... even with T5 that would still be an issue. Plus the US is unwilling to budge regarding traffic rights within the US. The current deal is not fair for either side.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
TOMASKEMPNER
Topic Author
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 3:21 pm

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 4:33 am

Sorry
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24594
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RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 5:20 am

I don't think it will be revised anytime soon. Most of the SEA-LHR, MIA-LHR, JFK-LHR, etc. traffic is largely O&D, and LHR is better for O&D (though LGW is not nesicarily better for connecting). ATL-LGW is mostly all connecting.
a.
 
VirginA340
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Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 6:27 am

I think it should be revised for one more airline from bothsides to travel between LHR-USA. BM can fly here if one other airline does flys to LHR and I think it should be CO. They show that they really want to fly there by flying to both Gatwickand Stansted. That's dedication. But my second choice would be DL to fly there since thye do dominate Europe. NWA should be ruled out since their hub is AMS and they are strong there and they are focused on Trans Pacific.
"FUIMUS"
 
AndyEastMids
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 7:27 am

Bermuda II should be dumped... Immediately. It is an overly protective agreement from an age where free competition was frowned upon, or at least from an age when it was agreed free competion might not be a good thing. The sooner the UK and UK have an open skies agreement, the better.

The issue of LHR slots is TOTALLY seperate from Bermuda II, but an attempt to link the two issues has been made by some airlines:

(a) Airlines already in LHR, such as BA, VS, AA and UA are are anxious to protect their position at LHR and thus linking LHR slots to Bermuda II suits them, because without slots being freed up politically Bermuda II is unlikely to be dropped. Retaining two carriers from each country suits the existing encumbants very nicely.

(b) Airlines not in LHR who want to be there are anxious to ensure slots and Bermuda II are linked too, as these airlines perceive that dropping Bermuda II without freeing up slots at LHR would potentially make BA, VS, AA and UA even more powerful, which is not true - BA, VS, AA and UA would have to compete for additional slots just as would any new entrant.

I'll say again - Bermuda II should be dumped forthwith, with no preconditions. Any airline that wished to serve transatlantic would then be free to do so, subject to finding slots at LHR. A few years ago, BD had to find slots for their UK domestic and European ops, and they did despite pundits saying it would be impossible. It wasn't impossible, they just had to work at it. VS had to find slots for their transatlantic ops, and in the same way they did. Slots are not impossible to come by and a lot of airlines are hiding behind the slots issue as a way to prevent Bermuda II being dropped. Shame.

Andy
 
watewate
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Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 9:09 am

Good points Andy.

But even if BII were to be abolished, it would take years for any US carriers (not including AA and UA) to have any significant presence at LHR. Convenient slot times will be hard to come by at crowded LHR.

But it's perfectly understandable why Brits don't want to relinquish BII- it's the only leverage they have left in turf war with US in civil aviation. They'd better smarten up soon, though- CDG, AMS and FRA are only too happy to do business with US carriers.
 
fox1
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2001 11:02 pm

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 11:36 am

>>I think that the Bermuda II agreement between the US and UK is useless now a days, it was good in the time that PAN AM, TWA and BRITISH were the only ones in this market.<<

There is life after LHR! The UK regionals are not subject to B2...This race for LHR is a status symbol
and the airlines wishing to fly to the UK will find it
cheaper to fly EDI!

EDI boasts over 100 daily flights to London and at
less expense - to airlines - for direct designer access
to LHR!.

 
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RayChuang
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Bermuda II, They Should Revise It

Sat May 12, 2001 12:33 pm

There are a couple of things that may make Bermuda II obselete.

First, with BD flying from MAN to the USA, this will give a new choice for a very large fraction of the British population to fly across the Atlantic without the hassles of dealing with LHR or LGW. Don't be surprised in a few years MAN may be host to flights from AA, CO, DL and UA.

Second, the sheer convenience of Eurostar trains (especially when the high-speed line on the English side opens in 2002) will mean that passengers going to the UK will no longer have to fly directly to LHR or LGW. They will now have the option of flying directly to CDG or BRU and hopping on a fast Eurostar train right at the airport back to London's Waterloo International Station in only a few hours.