Guest

BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 12:26 am

I remember reading an article (can't remember which paper), mentioning BMI's intentions to serve routes in the East, such as Karachi, Dubai and Delhi.

Does anyone have any info on their future plans for expansion?

Do we all think that BMI has a future in operating to the above cities? (and perhaps Hong Kong?)

Or will they be expanding US ops first? How well are they placed to compete with Virgin & BA? (as well as other foreign competitors?)

Rgds,
CP
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 12:36 am

Personally, with the codeshare agreement with UA, I don't think they will expand too much in the States as I'd have thought it more feesable to only serve afew of the major cities from MAN and have the others served with onward UA flights.

I think they will most probably add a couple more US cities from MAN to their route network and then concerntrate on flights to countries that the UK has strong ties with, from LHR (donno where they'd find the slots from!) I think the cities you've mentioned are possible, as is Australasia!
 
747firstclass
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 12:54 am

I read earlier today that they would love to start LGW-DEN service asap!! We shall see.
 
Demoose
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 1:22 am

London Gatwick???? Where did u hear this? BMI don't opearte any flights from their at the moment so would this mean BMI would also start domestic and european services to Gatwick to feed the possible LGW-DEN service? If they are dying to start this service then why didn't they base the Washington and Chicago flights at Gatwick aswell?

DEM
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 1:23 am

Yeah, I think it could be good for bmi to start US services ex-LGW, despite the fact that they don't fly to Gatwick now. They should certainly consider major cities not served by VS from London.

May I ask where you read that?
I'd have thought that there'd be enough traffic between DEN and LGW with the daily (?) BA B777 flight.


Cheers.
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 1:58 am

I heard it would be UA operating between LGW and DEN, and not bmi.
I would think bmi would start from MAN to cities such as New York and San Fransisco in the US however.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 5:26 am

Does anyone have a list of the routes bmi have the right to or have applied for?

Cheers,
Jamie.
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 5:27 am

Haven't they applied for Panama City?? Big grin
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 5:47 am

Yep. They're certainly thinking of all possibilities and have applied fpr many 'unusual' routes including Panama City (Panama), Bogota (Columbia) and Caracus (Venezuala) from LHR!
 
MAH4546
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 5:48 am

They want to fly to Miami, San Francisco, New York City, Los Angeles, and a few other cities from MAN, and, hopefully, LHR.
a.
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 5:49 am

I think they definitly should operate NCL-Panama City, the shipping trades would make this route viable!!
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 9:11 am

MAN-BKK perhaps?? TG doesn't operate to MAN...

rgds
Jimmy
 
747firstclass
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 9:23 am

I was doing some work on the internet for my job today and stumbled upon an article from some British paper that said it was quite likely that they would start service from LGW-Denver. Unfortunately I did not bookmark the article, I will retrace my steps and see where I found it. When I do I will post it here so everyone can see it.
 
rojo
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 11:51 am

They also apply to fly to Mexico City (MEX).
If they get a slot in LHR and they could start service to MEX BMI will make a lot of money. BA has packed flights from MEX-LHR. AeroMexico also applied to fly to London, but they want LHR not LGW, so they won´t start flights until they get one and that may take years.

Rojo
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 12:37 pm

They have the OK for Hong Kong already but they dont want to use it.
 
airmale
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 12:53 pm

Karachi? Great! I hope they do, though BA are the designated carrier here but now with the changes in Pakistan's aviation policy who knows which carriers may show up, i would love to see bmi, Virgin, ANA, Asiana, Ansett and other such carriers fly here Smile
.....up there with the best!
 
Samurai 777
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 12:57 pm

What about Canada, into Toronto, Montreal or even Vancouver? Might BMI be looking at these Canadian cities?
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Mon May 14, 2001 4:16 pm

Sir Micheal Bishop did metion Toronto from Edinbourgh in a recent press release.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 3:02 am

Looking into some of thier past PRs, they want to fly BOS-LHR, JFK-LHR, and MIA-LHR (and one more city. I think ORD or IAD). All cities are covered under BII, but, unfortunatley, bmi is not.
a.
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 3:11 am

According to Airliner World Sir Michael Bishop has expressed interest in BMI serving HKG, if possible.

This would see BMI purchasing the Airbus 340!!

Best of luck to them, I might try to get on a BMI flight from the US in September, if seats are available.

Cheers,
CP
 
donder10
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Gkirk

Tue May 15, 2001 4:30 am

NCL-Panama City would make a ton for BMI as I reckon they could fill the cargo hold everey flight.Thanks,Alex
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 4:56 am

If there was a few bob to made in flying cargo between NCL and P.City, I suspect BMI would arrange Atlas to do the work for them-because I somehow doubt many Geordies would want to fly to Panama (except perhaps MI6!!) Big grin

I seriously see HKG and perhaps DEL & DXB as strong contenders-if BMI manages to get slots & capacity on hand. HKG via DXB could be a possibility, but I doubt it would be popular (but bear in mind the CX flight from MAN is not non-stop).

I would love to see BMI Airbus 340's flying into Asia and perhaps......South America (Brazil & Argentina??!!). Then again, is there a suitable demand for those flights out of MAN or even EDI??

As some people have said, BMI will probably want to focus on North America in the short-term.

Rgds,
CP
 
srbmod
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 5:12 am

I know that they have applied for ATL-MAN and ATL-LHR (depending upon a new open skies agreement) I forsee bmi opening up this route by late fall. The only other airline that flies to MAN from ATL is Delta, with 777 once daily. I think that bmi could really cut into Delta's monopoly on this route, and United would love to codeshare yet another Star Alliance flight out of ATL (they currently codeshare on Lufthansa's Atlanta-Frankfurt route).
 
icebud
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 5:13 am

I have heard that sir Michael Bishop is very keen on Edinburgh. I think BMI will be operating transatlantic flights grom EDI soon. Continental Airlines officials visited Edinburgh Airport last month to assess it's facilities with the view to starting EDI-EWR and so BMI might want to act quick. Air Transat's weekly EDI-YYZ flight is apparently very popular but I wouldn't have thought enough of a market for BMI from edinburgh. Probably New York. Any ideas on Edinburgh please?
 
BWIA330
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 5:33 am

Probably BMI can expand their services to the Caribbean. Hopefully they could fly into Tobago and pick up the slack left off by two airlines that are pulling their services out of TAB. Those two airlines are JMC Airways and Condor Airlines. The A330-200 would look nice in Tobago.
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 5:48 am

I don't think they'd fly to the Caribbean in the near future as business class passengers produce the most £££ for airlines, and the Caribean is mainly a leisure destination.

How do you think ex-British collonies in Africa would do? After all, many Britains are of African decent and with all the coruption out there, you're bound to get native Africans spending lots in bussiness class. Remember that Lagos is BA's most proffitable destination...

The thing is though- why does bmi not serving LGW matter. Look at VS for example. They only have one shorthaul flight and that doesn't always go to LGW. The majority of pax aren't going to be transfering and so does it matter that bmi can't link up all of their longhaul flights with their shorthauls? VS do fine at LGW.
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 6:06 am

Do UA have a big presence in ATL? If not, I think bmi would be best staying away from there, espeially from MAN where the DL flight is doing great, but a lot of these are transfer pax on DL through ATL and not O&D. bmi should stick to cities where UA have hubs from MAN just now.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
deltairlines
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 6:11 am

UA has a few flights from ATL, but compete with DL on every route they have, and Frontier and AirTran on most of these too.

Jeff
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 6:16 am

bmi should definitly stay clear of ATL then.
Go to IAD,ORD,JFK,BOS maybe and SFO.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
MAH4546
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 6:29 am

LHR-MAN has to be carefully done. Since they codeshare with UA, they should do IAD-MAN and ORD-MAN as they currently do. SFO-MAN could connect with UA's Asian flights, while MIA-MAN could connect with UA's Latin flights. JFK-MAN and BOS-MAN could also work, a lot of O&D on those routes.
a.
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 7:12 am

As far as services to Asia are concerned, I think BMI would rather fly it's own a/c from either London or MAN, to destinations which may include DEL, DXB, HKG & KHI.

I don't think flying pax to SFO to use UA services to Asia is very likely (unless BMI have slot problems, which are not likely from MAN).


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The flights into MIA to connect with Latin services may be a possibility, although BMI will be at a disadvantage here, as BA already offers non-stop services to major South American cities

My 2p's worth on that issue! Big grin

Rgds,
CP
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 7:34 am

I don't think LHR slots will be a huge issue for bmi's long haul operations, if they start long haul ops from there. For most long haul routes they would only be looking for one departure and one arrival slot each day, and they operate some marginal European and UK domestic flights that could be cut to make way for more lucrative long haul ops. They did much the same with LHR-EMA and LHR-BHX, dropping them to make way for more lucrative ops, when the oportunity arose, and I suspect that they'll do it again.

Terminal capacity could however become an issue if bmi eventually end up loading several A330 or A340 flights a day through terminal one, because there is a shortage of gate lounges that can hold that sort of load.

Andy
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 7:59 am

Andy,

Assuming BMI are given clearence to start up longhaul ops from LHR, which shorthaul slots do you think BMI will swap (for LH slots?)

Do you think they will need to rearrange slots, or will LHR be able to supply completely new slots?

How many more brand new slots can LHR offer (to any airline?)

Questions, questions! Big grin

Rgds,
CP
 
caribb
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 11:34 am

Just look at where the Star Alliance world hubs are and you wil see where BMI is probably looking...
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 6:45 pm

what about a MAN-LAX service????? UA is very big at LAX, too. however, for connecting pax SFO is the more ideal solution.
i´m just wondering if bmi primarily considers asian and other destinations (except for the US) to be served from LHR or from MAN. i mean, CX operates to MAN, SQ does, so it seems that there could be enogh demand to asian destinations. or regarding LOS which is one of BA´s most successful routes. i don´t know, but could there be enough demand for MAN-LOS service??????

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 6:58 pm

CP,

No definitive information, but you've already seen that BMI is prepared to juggle slots and drop routes to operate different services. They certainly didn't get enough new slots to operate their Madrid service, for example, but you don't see Prague or Warsaw on their schedule any more.

One long haul slot a day in early afternoon will be less difficult to come by anyway than several a day, at the same times each day, to launch a short haul route. And BMI have enough slots that they can juggle things slightly to get a same-time-each day departure, even if they are not awarded same time each day slots.

Pure speculation: Push came to shove and they couldn't get the right new slots, maybe they'd drop a mid-day / early afternoon Leeds - I notice the lunch time Teesside that always used to operate but was a bit marginal as far as business pax has been dropped. Palma maybe? Although I gather that does quite well - its not all cheap stuff because quite a few villa and timeshare owners use it.

As I say, pure speculation... and I don't know really know how their newer routes out of LHR are doing, so if they're not doing well it could be one of those. But dropping short haul routes to start long haul wouldn't surprise me at all if they can't get new slots.

Andy
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 7:06 pm

Thanks for the info Andy-I guess LHR's congestion doesn't really help things!

Rgds,
CP
 
fax
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 7:35 pm

Andy
bmi-British midland have made a commitment to LBA for the next 5 years which means that they will maintain the LHR service as is. In fact they are looking at expanding to serve LBA-FRA and LBA-Copenhagen.

I think they may look to drop some of the southern european routes, as they are less popular. The PMI route will stay as it is very well utilised as mentioned above by premium customers.
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 8:54 pm

Just an update from Flight International, which I received in the mail today:

"Bishop is adamant that the next stage of LH expansion will be from LHR, and rules out more routes from "regional" airports ahead of this.

"I remain confident we will be able to start transatlantic ops from LHR next year", he says, anticipating a speeding up of the negotiation process after the UK's government elections on 7 June.

If LHR transatlantic access continues to elude it, BMI has a fall-back option of flying to other LH destinations from the London airport such as South Africa or the Middle East."

On pilot training for the A330:

"A group of BMI's pilots have spent the past year flying the A330-200 with UK charter airline Airtours on LH routes to gain the necessary experience."

Monarch engineering is providing maintenance services for BMI.

Rgds,
CP

 
johnnybgoode
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 10:53 pm

what kind of expansion could lufthansa plan from LHR?
certainly, further expansion of bmi will happen in cooperation with many of the star members, but i´m curious about that one in particular...

daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 10:59 pm

I think when people have mentioned LH in this context, they mean Long Haul and not Lufthansa,

Andy
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Tue May 15, 2001 10:59 pm

Johnny,

You've been bamboozled by my abbreviations! Big grin

I apologise, when typing "LH" I mean "longhaul" NOT Lufthansa.

Cheers,
CP
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 2:29 am

"If LHR transatlantic access continues to elude it, BMI has a fall-back option of flying to other LH destinations from the London airport such as South Africa or the Middle East."

If bmi do start longhaul services from LHR, I do hope they don't decide to try and compete with BA, foreign airlines and VS. For example, South Africa- BA, VS and SAA all have flights between LHR and Capetown & Johanesbourg (sp?), but would bmi stand a chance if they tried to get in there too? They should steer well clear of VS routes, IMO.
Perhaps they should get to Tel Aviv before Virgin....(?)
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 3:01 am

Hi Englandair,

I think that the fact that there are so many airlines serving South Africa from the UK (well, 3!) reflects an enormous demand for capacity, so I think it would not be a bad choice, assuming the A330 has the endurance to fly down there non-stop.

Also don't forget that routes to the Middle East (DXB, for example) are already served by BA & Emirates, and yet BMI are still planning to serve the region, from LHR.

The only disadvantage (if you see it as a disadvantage), is the fact that both BA & Emirates offer First Class, whilst BMI does not.

Rgds,
CP
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 5:15 am

i was always wondering, now i got it!!!!!!!  Wink/being sarcastic

daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 6:10 am

Well they do sort of, but like VS, they're advertising it as a business class with a business class price. All they need to do is advertise their product well methinks!
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 7:07 am

Some more info;

I plugged in some figures into a Time & Distance calculator; the conclusion was that BMI could fly non-stop to JNB with the A330-200, but would suffer slight payload penalties, which would increase for non-stop CPT flights.

Given BMI are also interested in routes to HKG and DEL (possibly), it is likely they will have to buy or lease some A340's; someone did mention the possibility that BMI might convert some of it's A332 options to A340's.

What an exciting time for BMI!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Rgds,
CP
 
Guest

RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 7:09 am

PS: The Time & Distance calculator can be found at http://www.ar-group.com/calc.htm, and the performance figures for the A332 were obtained from the A/c data pages of Airliners.Net

Cheers
CP
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Wed May 16, 2001 4:17 pm

Cheers for telling us that CP.
 
englandair
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RE: BMI-Looking Into The Future (route-wise)

Thu May 17, 2001 12:37 am

Why would bmi be interested in DEL, because last I heard, VS aren't doing too well on the route (and that's an AI codeshare)?

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