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LAX
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How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 3:36 pm

What a great pic!!

Isn't he in a bit MORE of a right turn than is usual on the famous runway 13 approach?

Anyway.......it's a fabulous shot, got to admit!!!  Big thumbs up


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © André Kröcher



 
Guest

RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 3:57 pm

"Damnit Chaques.... what did I tell you about having wine with your inflight meal......."
 
Guest

RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:01 pm

Well that really runied the joke. Chaques should be Jacques or something... man I'm taking French 4AP next year, that ain't a good sign.
 
lgb
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:04 pm

What I find even more interesting about that "photo" is that apparently either the Hong Kong sky is black during the day or the photographer was using one h--l of a flash...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Lars
 
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LAX
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:04 pm

Pretty good there SAN JOSE!!!!!!

It looks like he had QUITE a bit too much, huh?

I don't know....maybe this angle is misleading. Perhaps the camera is tilted to make it look sharper than it is. What do you say?

??????????
 
desertjets
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:07 pm

Possibly the pilot still thinks he is flying Mirages... But I would wager that while the bank angle may be slightly higher than normal perspective is fooling with you. The photographer distance-wise is probably fairly close to the plane so he is looking up at it, and secondly b/c the plane is only about halfway through the turn helps to throw it off a bit. I'd sure as hell hope not the plane was pulling a 45° bank.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
Guest

RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:08 pm

I don't think the shot is misleading... but talk about items in the overhead bins shifting during the flight........
 
lgb
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:15 pm

Are you guys serious? Seems quite obvious that someone took the trouble of replacing all background pixels with black ones. What makes you think they didn't use the "rotate image" function as well in their image manipulation software? Surprised that "photo" was accepted by a.net...

Lars
 
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LAX
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Tue May 15, 2001 4:44 pm

I disagree. I don't think any "pixels" have been re-done.

It's just a hell of a storm coming up!

Wish Andre (the photog) could tell us.

Anyway, WHAT A RIDE!!!
 
lgb
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Ov

Tue May 15, 2001 5:09 pm

Hmmm... Looking at it again on a different monitor it doesn't look all black. Earlier today everything but the plane looked totally black. Sorry about that, I'll have my other monitor checked. Still a bit strange though that the plane is so well lit...

Lars
 
757PF
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Wed May 16, 2001 11:55 am

Pretty cool pic!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Wed May 16, 2001 2:30 pm

I've saw some bad things at Kai Tak but this just looks odd. It may be the angle or something but it just does not look correct.

This topic has been talked about and I dont remember Andre giving any info.
 
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LAX
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Wed May 16, 2001 7:27 pm

Wow! What a turn!

Does look a bit odd indeed!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
rapo
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Dark Background

Wed May 16, 2001 8:15 pm

As far as the dark background goes, have you ever been in a sunlit area as a storm approaches? The clouds take on a black like shade such as in the picture. The plane is merely still in the sun light.

rapo
 
BA747-436
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RE: The Picture

Wed May 16, 2001 8:54 pm

If you get the inlarged version of the picture and look closley at the wing, you will see that the.... o s**t i've totaly forgoten what they are called, you know the things you use to chage the direction of the aircraft. Anyway they are both pretty much flush with the wing. On such a sharp turn one side would be way down, while the other would be high up. Do you know what i mean? Otherwise how would the aircraft do such a sharp turn?
Think about it.
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
It's common sense realy. I think they might be called Airolons or something.
What do you think about this therory?
Dan
Dan Valentine - Bad Ass MOFO Photographer
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Wed May 16, 2001 9:51 pm

BA, if he was starting to decrease the turn angle then I think the ailerons would not need to be in a position causing him to roll right.. they could be in the midst of moving to the opposite position, maybe? Anyway, this one's cool too... not as steep, but pretty!


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Gordon Ho

Next flight.... who knows.
 
wannabe
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Wed May 16, 2001 10:21 pm

When executing a turn in any aircraft, you move the controls until you get to the desired bank and then bring the controls back to center. Once you have the aircraft on the heading you want (actually a bit before) you move the controls in the opposite direction to bring the aircraft back to 0 degree bank.
 
BA747-436
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RE: The Picture

Wed May 16, 2001 10:49 pm

Yeah i know this, but what i was trying to say was that maybe if he was in the middle of executing the turn, then the aerolons should be up and down respectivly.
Maybe he has got the angle he wanted and is back at centre aerolons, who knows!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
regrds
Dan
Dan Valentine - Bad Ass MOFO Photographer
 
B747-436
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 1:25 am

Nice shot, i can't see that it has been manipulated in any way. You can see the sun reflecting in the cockpit window and there are definetely storm clouds in the background, most likely it is a small storm cloud and they are still in the distance while the photographer snaps this shot in the sun!

BA All the Way!
 
Boeing727
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 2:06 am

The reason this airplane is not falling out of the sky is called horizontal lift...

Boeing727
 
GOT
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 2:38 am

Nice shot, but these turns where not unusual at Kai Tak, where they?

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
FDXmech
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 3:00 am

Nice Canadi>n shot as well. And please take note of the raised left wing ailerons (inboard and outboard) and spoilers. He's coming *out* of his right turn.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
philb
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 3:03 am

The turn in to Kai Tak was tight and, particularly in stormy weather such as depicted, could be "over cooked" a little.

The aircraft was presumably comparatively light on fuel and the 747 is extremely agile - always surprises people just how the big bird can turn around the sky.

As to aileron position, the outboard ailerons move very little for even a quite steep angle of bank and the inboard "high speed" ailerons would be assisting the turn - they are located well inboard on each wing and are not visible on the shot.

On the Canadian 747 the rhomboid shaped "spoiler" between the two flaps on the left wing is the inboard aileron.
 
airbus380
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 5:38 am

1. Had to expedite to miss a Cathay 744
2. Someone took over the cockpit
3. Was on Autopilot Heading
 
AA7771stClass
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 6:10 am

Thanks PhilB on the correct ailerons. A second example can be found in the enlarged picture...it looks as if the rudder is turned to the right a bit. It could be only in my eyes but it seems like it's cricked a little bit to the right...maybe!?!?
 
philb
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 6:26 am

I would imagine such a turn would need a little assistance from the rear end!
 
sabenapilot
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 7:57 am

I've told you before:
French speaking pilots are the best!
Fly:
Air France,
Sabena,
Air Canada,
Swissair
etc.

 Big grin
 
Guest

RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 9:25 am

Madammes et Monsieurs, ferment s'il vous plaît vos yeux avant l'arrive. Ceci peut faire les personnes dans la première classe retourne l'Escargo que nous avons servi.
 
hkgspotter1
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 10:07 am

THAT IS NOT A STORM.

A storm is when you cant see the runway or the planes !!, I spent many days at Kai Tak in such weather.

This photo still looks very odd.

Please see the ailerons in my pic to see what the ailerons should be doing, just like Gordons CP pic.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Daryl Chapman

 
FDXmech
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 12:52 pm

The ailerons should be doing as the "pilot flying" needs them to do at any particular moment.

Obviously the Canadi>n and KAL 747's are rolling out of a steep right turn as the left wing inbd/outbd ailerons & spoilers indicate.

AF is in the midst of his turn therefore essentially neutral ailerons/spoilers (as far as I can tell).

For goodness sakes, AF as are rest of these 747's are actually flying, manuevering and landing. They aren't static displays in which a determination of aileron deflection made in a blink of a cameras shutter is anything to be taken seriously.

PhilB,
Please elaborate on correct ailerons.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
philb
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Thu May 17, 2001 4:01 pm

The ailerons look to be neutral (but only on the evidence of the extreme edge of the port wing as the trailing edge of the starboard wing cannot be seen).

That opposite aileron would need to be applied shortly to straighten for finals.

As to the weather, there looks to be a storm area with possible CB in the background.

Hkgspotters version of a torm is at the worst end of the envelope.

Proximity to CB can cause windshear, turbulence and the need for faster than normal approaches, even if the aircraft itself is in the clear.
 
757PF
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Fri May 18, 2001 7:15 am

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Qantas737
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RE: How Did This 747 Keep From Going Completely Over?

Fri May 18, 2001 10:59 am

Ailerons dont necessarily have to be having a lot of movement so that the aircraft turns, not at that point in the turn i mean. If you keep the ailerons held at the sharp angle, well you will soon learn that the aircraft will know how to roll. Its common sense really. The pilots may be decreasing the angle of the turn when the pic was taken. Nothing strange about this picture to me. Definately seems to be storm weather coming up. They make for great shots if the storm is in the pic while the sun behind you still manages to shine on the aircraft. Congratulations to Andre on such a fine pic.