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AirTran Vs. Delta- It Keeps Getting Interesting

Thu May 27, 1999 11:39 am

Recently AirTran has accused Delta of predatory pricing. Delta finds this absurd and finds no wrongdoing. AirTran has a summer sale going, and Delta REDUCED prices even further set by the AirTran sale. It gets interesting though:

Delta, as of June 1, will allow its passengers to use cell phones on board, something AirTran already does. It is obvious that Delta is putting full throttle to get rid of AirTran.

Delta is already making record profits. If they get rid of AirTran, they will monopolize all of its routes to make even more money. How much money could they possibly want? Are they trying to set a record in the Guiness book of records?

So, what could AirTran do? They have the 717 payments, which put an additional weight on AirTran's shoulder. This is going to be tough for AirTran in the upcoming months. We'll have to wait and see what happens....
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: AirTran Vs. Delta- It Keeps Getting Interesting

Thu May 27, 1999 12:17 pm

I guess it really doesn't matter that Airtran is accusing Delta of that, as the FAA is already looking into DL at ATL (and other major carriers with majority-them hubs) for a case regarding how they already monopolize ATL! I think DL is correct in saying that those charges are absurd. As long as DL didn't add more seats to the routes on which they compete with Airtran and where the price reductions were, I think that they are just being competitive, trying to win back their passengers who went to Airtran.

FLY777UAL
 
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VIflyer
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RE: AirTran Vs. Delta- It Keeps Getting Interesting

Thu May 27, 1999 1:20 pm

I see what you're saying and it gets me angry because it ends up hurting everyone and stuffing the bloated pockets of a few. It's getting out of hand when it comes to the major airline trying to monoplize routes. In the Carribean a similar situation has happened and the effects are being felt deeply. Originally at SJU (San Juan International) there were two temernals in while all the gates were evenly split between all the Airlines (Back when Pan Am and Eastern Airlines where still around). When the effects of Deregulation hit airlines like Pan Am and Eastern their gates were sold off and American jumped at the chance. Now they own all of the Gates at one terminal and the rest of the airlines were force to the other an American began to monopolized. At small airports like St. Thomas U.S.V.I. the lower rates to scare off other airlines and when they had a majority hold (Not hard since they now had the largest hub system in the Carribean). Ironically I worked for them at that time and at first the lower rates seem great. Then things changed, First they stoped flying larger planes like the A300 out of small airports in favor for smaller capacity 757. This not only effected the passager flow (90% of the economy is tourism) but also airfreight (the smaller aircraft can't carry container bins like the A300, trust me I know I worked for them) so the price of imported items that reqired airfreight when up. Secondly the price of the tickets sky rocketed, one year with health competition I flew the New York for $480 round trip. The next year, same time, every thing exactly the same the price was $865. Now I'm not and economics major but thats inflation due to market dommination. I'm not judging the major airlines pratices as illegal but the effect hit hard to the local in the area.
I reject your reality and subsitute my own
 
Guest

RE: AirTran Vs. Delta- It Keeps Getting Interesting

Thu May 27, 1999 1:35 pm

Its Called the Free market system. Delta is a publicly traded company. Regardless of what their ads say their #1 priority is
making as much money for their shareholders as possible. If that means screwing Air tran then that's what they will do. If we
are going to live within this system and enjoy its benefits, we have to still live with and except its shortcomings, of which this is
one.

-Kyle
 
Guest

FLY777UAL

Fri May 28, 1999 1:56 am

Delta isn't adding capacity? You better look at this:

Delta operates the ATL-MDW run, a run that started in October 1998, never seen before in the Delta system history, with 737-200 aircraft. AirTran was the first airline with this route.

Something I also noticed is that Delta is now offering deluxe snack service on the ATL-LGA run, a run that was overidden by peanuts.

 
FLY777UAL
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Firstclass

Fri May 28, 1999 7:23 am

I didn't say that DL wasn't adding capacity...I didn't know whether they were or not (it was a question...). Seeing as how the ATL-LGA market is one of the top business markets in the country, I see no reason why DL can't do their deluxe snack in order to compete with Airtran. If I was paying the amout of money that is shelled out by passengers on those flights, I would expect a deluxe snack as well. On the fact that DL added a 737-200 on the ATL-MDW route, I would have to say that it would only matter if DL had more flights and undercut AT's fares by a whole lot. Don't get me wrong...I like both of the airlines...just that AT's accusations are not correct. If they'd show me HOW DL was doing this, then I might believe them.

FLY777UAL
 
Guest

RE: Firstclass

Fri May 28, 1999 10:23 am

I think AirTran might try to incorporate a meal service onto its flights, somehow, to compete with Delta. How about extending the AirTran Business Class cabin and adding a deluxe snack in there!

It makes me upset to the fact that passengers will fly for food. I know passengers who will go to great lengths to find a meal on their flight. I guess they want as much service for their so-called "expensive" flights.

Of course, when AirTran is finally dissolved from Atlanta, it's back to the peanuts for Delta!
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Firstclass

Fri May 28, 1999 10:51 am

I wish that Airtran would take a more proactive solution with their squabble with DL. Instead of whining like some other airlines...they should go head to head with DL on the ATL-LGA route. Full meals in the EXPANDED First Class...snack boxes in Economy. They can do this...it would not cost that much.

FLY777UAL
 
Guest

RE: Firstclass

Fri May 28, 1999 11:09 am

Actually AirTran does not have the galley space to shove all those meals onboard. If you have been onboard Southwest Airlines and have seen their galley, it is similar to AirTran. That's why AirTran should keep the meals only to business class.

Although I do agree with you FLY777UAL that AirTran should face Delta rather than whining. I think there is a way. Here is what i had in mind:

With an expanded business class, AirTran should charge the business class passengers more and offer better service. The business class fares can compensate and lower fares in coach.
 
Lufthansa
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Airtran

Fri May 28, 1999 11:46 am

How about airtran combat the problem from a different angle all together. This will require a BIG step, but i think they've got the know how to do it. Firstly, they need to get their hands on a Boeing 747-200. You can lease one pretty damn cheap these days, and as long as it was well looked after, its still fine. Anyway, then outfit it with about 500 seats, maybe more. Fly to London Gatwick, and maybe Paris Chales de Gulle, And Rome. It doesn't have to be daily flights, just, has to be cheap flights. It could also be done with a DC-10 but that wouldn't last long, or an MD-11, but i think seat mile costs would go up a bit if you flew these aircraft with 400 people onboard compared to 500 onboard the early 747. The advantage here is that the thing would probably cost about the same to lease as a well used 767, but offers much lower seat mile costs. anyway, then airtran has to have a frequent flyer program that they can all use, and, build up passenger loyalty as a result of the frequent flyer program. A good international network, (as long as its profitable) is aways a good way to have loyal domestic passengers. Airtran would have to try very hard, and offer extremely basic minimal service, in order to ALWAYS offer the lowest price, or at least the be the easeist airline to find low price seats on. Thats my suggestion. At the same time, it would capture new markets from foreign tourists traveling to america too for its domestic network.
 
FLY777UAL
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FirstClass!

Fri May 28, 1999 12:08 pm

Yea...I agree. The galley space was the only question in my mind, as well. The Economy snack boxes can be borded in one cart, and the FC meals would take up one cart, as well. If AT doesn't have cart room up front, then some carrier boxes would work as well.

FLY777UAL
 
Guest

RE: FirstClass!

Fri May 28, 1999 12:36 pm

Do either of you know what the galley space will be like on thier 717s? Maybe that will have some effect on meals and competition. They have 50 on order - they'll get 2 per month until sometime in 2001. Will that be too little too late, though?
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: FirstClass!

Fri May 28, 1999 12:43 pm

I don't. From my reading on Airtran's website, it said that they were to take delivery of 50 717-200's (MD-95's) with 117 seats. According to Boeing, the 717 seats something like 106 or 105 seats (two class). In order for AT to do this, (117 seats), they'd have to tear out every galley, lav, and reduce the seat pitch to next to nothing. I would assume that the 717 would have larger galley areas, seeing as how it is just a little longer than the DC-9-30, AT's mainstay of the fleet, but they would only increase the galley space if they wanted to improve on service.

FLY777UAL
 
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FLY777UAL

Fri May 28, 1999 9:09 pm

I do not think AirTran needs the Economy snack carts. I have been on flights where flight attendants serve snacks without carts. All the snacks were on the counter and the flight attendant would grab about 12 and serve them fast, and then she runs to the galley to grab another 12 and the process starts over again. I think it would save costs for AirTran.
 
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Bruce
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RE: Air Tran

Sat May 29, 1999 3:32 am

to respond to an earlier post, Air Tran will never go overseas. That is not their goal. I have found DL's fares to be very high compared to AT's. I wouldn't mind flying DL because they offer quality service, but until they become reasonable to the average flyer i will have to look to airlines like AirTran, SW, etc. I once priced a flight from FLL-ATL at around $900!! No Way! AT competes for a fraction of that without all those silly restrictions. And if i couldnt find a flight I'd drive the trip to avoid those outrageous costs. it may be a free-market system but the consumer has the power of choice.
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: First Class

Sat May 29, 1999 6:59 am

No...I don't think so, either. I was saying that all of the boxes would fit into one cart...as on UA flights.

FLY777UAL
 
deltairlines
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RE: AirTran Vs. Delta- It Keeps Getting Interesting

Sun May 30, 1999 3:19 am

Im glad Delta is doing this. Delta vs AirTran, Delta should win. AirTran is just too young.

Jeff
 
Guest

RE: AirTran Vs. Delta-/DeltAirlines

Sun May 30, 1999 7:24 am

That's what they said about Southwest in the 70's and look at them today.

AirTran(from the days of ValuJet and original AirTran) isn't a young airline. Of the many start-ups that was launched in the 90s, a few survived, and AirTran was one of them.

AirTran has many opportunities to take on Delta from the way I see it. It is if AirTran management applies it.