Posts: 131
Joined: Tue May 01, 2001 11:37 am

Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 4:30 am

With all this talk of a new WN city, what do you think was the worst choice / least successful city Southwest had decided to start service from? I though this would be an interesting question, considering all the thought and planning that goes into a new WN city (more so than other airliners).
Posts: 6915
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 5:11 am

I don't know the least successful city, but in its 30 years, it has pulled out of only 3 cities: Denver, San Francisco, and Beaumont/Pot Aurthur, Texas, and left Detroit City to move to Detroit-Metro (pulling out of three metro areas)

Denver was left due to Frontier, Continentals, and Uniteds (in that order) having hub status at DEN, and SFO because of UAs hub there and the major delays with the bay.

Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 5:23 am

Worst Current city - Jackson MS. Purely a political decision.

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 6:22 am

I suspect that the lowest performing ever was Beaumont/Port Arthur. I suspect that the worst current city in terms of yield and load factor is one of the old-line cities in Texas, perhaps either Corpus Christi or Midland. Neither of these cities would have been picked in a million years under Southwest's present standards.

For a just plain bad city, Goingboeing is right. Jackson is an absolute toilet.
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 6:33 am

So what is the political story behind Jackson?

Was WN facing a lawsuit of some kind (perhaps discrimination) and they settled it by setting up shop there and giving jobs to "certain" factions?
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 6:57 am

Nope, no discrimination there. Trent Lott, airline excise taxes, and a deal. Despite the fact that they could have nonstop service to DAL, SWA only offers 5 flights a day, and all 5 require a change at HOU.
Posts: 2802
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 7:18 am

Jackson was more like a political favor to Trent Lott's home state of Mississippi. I believe it was shortly after JAN was announced as a Southwest City, that the Shelby Amendment was passed, allowing Southwest to add Mississipi, Alabama and Kansas to the list of states they could serve out of DAL. Previously Southwest's DAL operations had been retricted to cities in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and New Mexico.. Maybe someone else could go into a little more detail.



RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 7:22 am

The worst city was just axed...San Francisco. I would imagine all cities pull their weight...even desolate Midland, Boise, Spokane and Corpus Christi.

Jackson's service isn't too bad, nonstops to BWI, MDW, MCO, HOU...heck of lot more than Corpus Christi
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 7:40 am

GB: Jackson has NINE trips a day and it pulls its weight. Plus, if the ugly planes ever get in to the Hotlanta is sitting there like a juicy plum. Jackson, for whatever reason...looks EAST. Sort of like El Paso looks WEST. Southwest offered a bunch of cheap nonstops from ELP to DAL in the late 70s...but it took a long time before more folks flew from ELP to DAL..HOU...AUS than flew to El Lay.

Those "rinky dink" cities in Texas that folks think would never have service....Midland, Lubbock, Corpus Christi....they have 15, 15, and 9 flights a day (respectively) and arguably would still get service if Southwest was starting up today. The yields are REAL good on those.....esp between CRP-HOU, LBB-DAL, & MAF-DAL...that is all business traffic for the most part, despite the notion that businessmen won't fly on Southwest.

Southwest did not desert Denver because of its hub status for UA, FL, or CO. Rather, it had to do with there was no gate or counter space, it had to be acquired from Ozark....Ozark's folks worked the flights, they lacked the same sense of urgency that Southwest's folks did....and between that, congestion at Stapleton, weather the time it just wasn't worth the hassle.

so I guess the "worst city" was BPT, which was a shame. The folks in the "Golden Traingle" were real glad to have Southwest. Jefferson County Airport was a sound facility. Back in the was probably the nonstop flight from DAL to BPT on TTA's DC-3s that saved that company to later turn in to Continental. But times change...and BPT was never able to produce the loads necessary on 5 trips a day 737s.

Posts: 5805
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 8:13 am

I'd have to agree - Southwest's worst (if you mean weakest) city was likely BPT. It's too close to Houston (90 miles at 70 mph) and doesn't really generate a huge amount of traffic at good yields. I still chuckle when I hear Beaumont-Port Arthur-Orange referred to as the "Golden Triangle" - my folks called it the "Septic Triangle" when I was growing up further down the Texas Gulf Coast.

As for Corpus Christi...WN in the 3rd quarter of 2000 carried, on average, 304 passengers daily between CRP and HOU at an average yield of 45 cents/mile. CRP and DAL had 338 daily passengers at 28 cents/mile. Looks pretty healthy to me.
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 9:44 am

Tex, they only have 5 scheduled trips to DAL from JAN, and all those have to connect in HOU. I shoulda been clearer. But...what would you consider to be Southwest's "worst" currently active city?
User avatar
Posts: 8091
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 10:47 am

Actually, many cities in Texas have very popular WN service because people kind of forget one aspect of the state: it is the largest state in land mass area of the Lower 48 states.

As such, driving around the state takes a LONG time even if you can cruise on the Interstate at 80 mph. And you wouldn't want to drive around Texas on a long drive in the middle of summer with temps approaching 40 degrees Celsius and 75+% humidity.

It's way more convenient to fly to Amarillo or El Paso from the Dallas area by WN or AA than driving there.  Smile
Posts: 2604
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 11:00 am

Interesting to me that none of the Shelby (ah vanity, thy name is politician) Amendment cities currently have any nonstop service to DAL yet. No space at DAL? Waiting for just the right moment? I'm thinking especially of BHM, which might draw on some disgruntled Atlanta folks.

BTW, let me mourn the closure of WN at SFO. It just made me have to drive further to SMF to get less-packed planes. OAK is getting more crowded with each passing day. SJC is a horror to get to from here. Can't just hop on BART and SamTrans for the relatively painless journey to SFO like I used to. Ah, but once you got there, therein lies the rub...............
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: Worst Southwest City?

Sat May 19, 2001 11:11 am

Current worse city, huh?

I don't have O&D numbers from the stations right now (give me a few days heh heh)

If I were guessing, I'd say Omaha.

Popular Searches On

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos