TG992
Topic Author
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Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:19 am

Qantas have announced they plan to buy a significant stake in Air New Zealand from shareholders Singapore Airlines and Brierly who currently own 30 and 25% of the company. Singapore Airlines have also announced they plan to purchase Ansett from Air New Zealand eliminating the competitive issues in Australia.

More to follow when I have more info
-
 
Guest

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:33 am

Here is A report on the issue from http://www.news.com.au/common/printpage/0,6093,2052237,00.html

Will have to wait until more detailed info is known before making comments or passing judgement

------

Airlines view shake-up
From AAP
29May01

QANTAS has been approached to take a significant stake in Air New Zealand in a deal which would also see Ansett sold.

The proposal would involve Air New Zealand selling Ansett and Ansett International to Singapore Airlines, Qantas said today.
The airline has had preliminary discussions with Air New Zealand's major shareholders, Singapore Airlines and Brierley Investments Ltd.

It has also held talks with Air New Zealand chairman Sir Selwyn Cushing.

A Qantas statement said chief executive officer Geoff Dixon would await further advice or contact from the board of Air New Zealand and the two major shareholders before deciding whether it will take the matter further.

Earlier Air NZ said Qantas had approached its board, which was considering a proposal.

"Air New Zealand ... has been approached by Qantas for the development of a transaction which would involve the acquisition by Qantas of a significant shareholding in Air New Zealand from the two major shareholders, namely Brierley Investments Ltd and Singapore Airlines Ltd," the company said.

"The proposal is conceptual and no valuations have been incorporated in the proposal at this stage."

The Air NZ board said it was too early to form a view on the proposed acquisition.

However, it said it would consider the proposal "in the interests of all shareholders", and had established an independent committee of directors to consider it and other options.

Expert advice is also being sought by the committee.

This report appears on news.com.au.

 
dalecary
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:43 am

here is the article:


BREAKING NEWS



Qantas in Air NZ talks

AAP
SYDNEY
Tuesday 29 May 2001, 10:05 AM

Qantas Airways Ltd has held preliminary discussions with Air New Zealand's board about taking a "significant shareholding" in the rival airline, Air NZ said today.

The board said Qantas had approached it to develop "a transaction which would involve the acquisition by Qantas of a significant shareholding in Air New Zealand from the two major shareholders".

Those shareholders were Singapore-based Brierley Investments Ltd and Singapore Airlines Ltd.

Qantas said in a statement the transaction under consideration would involve Qantas taking the significant stake in Air NZ and with Air NZ selling Ansett and Ansett International to Singapore Airlines.

"Following the approach, Qantas had preliminary discussions with the major shareholders in Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and Brierley Investments Limited, and also the Chairman of Air New Zealand, Sir Selwyn Cushing," Qantas said.

Qantas chief executive officer Geoff Dixon said Qantas will await further advice or contact from Air NZ's board and the two major shareholders before it decides whether to take the matter further.

Air NZ chairman Sir Selwyn Cushing said he was stepping aside as chairman pending the outcome of the Qantas proposal.

"The proposal is conceptual and no valuations have been incorporated in the proposal at this stage," the Air NZ board said in a release to the Australian Stock Exchange.

It added that it is too early to form a view on the proposed acquisition.

However, it said it would consider the proposal "in the interests of all shareholders", and had established an independent committee of directors to consider this and other options.

Expert advice was also being sought by the committee.

Sir Selwyn Cushing was stepping aside immediately as chairman and he also intended to make a statement to the Singapore Stock Exchange regarding his chairmanship of Brierley Investments later in the day, Air NZ said.

However Sir Selwyn will remain a director of both Air New Zealand and BIL.

"It is inappropriate in the circumstances for Sir Selwyn to make any further comment," Air NZ said.


Dale.
 
aduum
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:10 am

If the deal does go through it means that ANZ will sell 100%of Ansett Australia, and their 50%of Ansett International??

Can't SIA only aquire 49% of AN? Where would the other 51% go to?
 
tullamarine
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:12 am

SQ can buy up to 100% of AN domestic though would need Australian government approval as it currently only has approval for 50%. It can only buy 49% of AN Int'l.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
B727-200
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:24 am


And just what Ansett needed.....another change in ownership. If only NZ let SQ by the other 50% in the first place.

B727-200.
 
Al
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:31 am

Aduum wrote:
"If the deal does go through it means that ANZ will sell 100%of Ansett Australia, and their 50%of Ansett International??

Can't SIA only aquire 49% of AN? Where would the other 51% go to?"

It's only a technicality and a "paper" requirement to get the 100% of AN to SQ through Government. Subject to appropriate checks and balances SQ can take the 100% of AN itself and up to 49% of AN International. There is no way in hell that any Government in an election year would not allow SQ the 100% of AN if it wanted it! Legislation currently allows 100% foreign ownership of any domestic carrier - flag carriers (such as AN International) have a ceiling of 49%.

Interesting times - but if the NZ board have set up an independent committee to study the proposal, *anything* is possible. It certainly does highlight how precarious things must be in Auckland though if they are willing to listen to and study the proposal.

Cheers/Regards. Al.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:42 am

The real question is what happens to Gary Toomey. He and Geoff Dixon are not close. They haven't spoken since last year and given GT's comments in Saturday's Melbourne Age we can assume that he has little time for Dixon who he portrays as a media junkie.

If and at this stage it's a big if, NZ falls to QF then it would be hard to see GT working for GD. I assume he'd prefer to be the CEO of a cashed up AN. It would also enable him to move back to MEL which would undoubtedly suit him and his family.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
Guest

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:03 am

Hmm... I wonder how that will affect Air New Zealand's membership in Star if Qantas really buys a significant stake in her. After all, won't there be a conflict of interest?
 
airnewzealand
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:20 am

Don't do it AirNZ.... Please Don't!!

Cheers (Sobbing AirNZ future employee)
Mikey
 
v jet
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:24 am

Dont be sad Mikey. Think of it as being a smiling future Qantas Employee Big grin
 
Oz777
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:37 am

Hang on....Hang on. All QF have said is that they are talking to the shareholders. That has to be reported to the stock exchanges, and Selwyn Cushing has to step aside due to conflict of interest.

There are a number of curly ones here. It effectively creates a monopoly on the Trans Tasman and NZ domestic operations.

This is a typical move by QF. If you see a threat to direct competition, go to the shareholders....that is what they did to Impulse.

Also, under the NZ Govt rules, only 25% can be owned by a foreign carrier, and majority ownership must still be vested in the NZ "A" shares (owned by NZers or NZ companies of which BIL is still constituted).

I think this is a smart move by Geoff Dixon - it just tightens the screws a little more. Think about it. Would QF prefer a cashed up owner of AN, or the currnt arrangement.

The proposal is always a possibility, but there are MASSIVE hurdles to be overcome, and the NZ Govt has not shown any commitment to changing the rules.

So Mikey, you might still get to wear your sister's uniform yet (Just kidding!!!)

Oz777
 
star_member
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:43 am

don't do it. a direct stake by sq in ansett is a much better option. nz getting swallowed up by arch rival qf would be a complete catastrophe for trans tasman and nz domestic travel.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:45 am

Will the NZ regulatory authorities approve this transaction? I don't see an issue in Australia as AN merely moves from one foreign owner to another and even then it is arguable that the new owner would increase competition in Australia due to their very deep pockets.

In NZ, however, a foreign company would control NZ and gain ownership of "A" Class shares which are meant to be domestic only. (This is despite the fact the BIL is only nominally a NZ company these days.) Also NZ would end up with a monopolistic domestic aviation scene as QF would immediately withdraw from the domestic market leaving NZ alone as the domestic carrier.

There is no way SQ/AN would want to be involved in the NZ domestic scene especially given the losses suffered by AN/QFNZ and the fact that QF/NZ would dominate trans-Tasman travel meaning feed traffic would be virtually zero.

All this tends to suggest that the NZ Competitions Commission will struggle to approve the deal unless the government wants it to happen.
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wirraway
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:48 am

Aviatsiya, Its obvious someone took notice of your
strong posting yesterday  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. This is great news
and the biggest shake up in Australian aviation, the
mind boggles at what fleet upgrade Ansett will get
now, A380 anyone.
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 12:00 pm

Oz 777
The deal has been reported to the ASX, in fact QF
shares are up 15c since yesterday afternoon. It looks
like this has gone in the opposite direction that you
predicted a few days ago.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 12:30 pm

Now I've heard everything. A quick check on our Reuters and Bloomberg news pc's confirm the earlier reports.

So it looks like SIA may well get their way after all?

Interesting to see some moaning about QF taking such a big stake in ANZ, when ANZ did exactly the same in purchasing AN.

This sounds like a pretty good move for QF to really consolidate itself in the region. And if ANZ are really in this pooh with money at the moment as it seems, then they really have no other choice.

I quick call to my broker in AKL suggests that ANZ is quickly but quietly running out of financing options, hence this pre-emptive strike by QF.

Or perhaps it was carefully and calculatingly planned by QF and perhaps SIA?

This is all too much fabulous news...

Cheers,

mb

***Absolutely Ansett***
 
docpepz
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 12:48 pm

We all know that SQ bought a 25% stake in ANZ for AN right? I mean, why would SQ be interested in ANZ at all? There are more people in Singapore than New Zealand, and ANZ hardly flies anywhere these days, and NZ is located in the furthest corner of the world. ANZ stopped direct services to DPS and now codeshare with SQ. They stopped direct services to BKK and now codeshare with SQ.

Well it looks like the two Aussie rivals to QF, Ansett and Virign Blue, have links to SQ, and indirectly, the Singapore Govt. Wonder how Australia would feel about that. Even the purchase of Optus by Singapore Telecom means that Optus now has indirect links to the Singapore govt.

I don't know how Australians feel but I would feel kind of uneasy if the big corporations in my country were slowly taken over by the government of another country, whether directly or indirectly!
 
Guest

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 12:48 pm

SYDNEY - (Dow Jones)-Singapore Airlines Ltd. (P.SAL) said Tuesday that management-level talks have been held with Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN) about the Australian national carrier buying SIA's 25% stake in Air New Zealand Ltd. (A.AIZ).
"Qantas' plan is to acquire substantive ownership of Air New Zealand by also buying Brierley Investment Ltd.'s (A.BRY) shareholding in the New Zealand carrier, and for Air New Zealand to sell all of Ansett to Singapore Airlines," Singapore Airlines said in a statement issued from its Sydney office.
Singapore Airlines also issued the statement to the Singapore Stock Exchange.
"The proposal is only a concept. In the interests of shareholders, Singapore Airlines must consider with care the strategic and financial implications of the proposition and weight it against other options that are available," it said.
Singapore Airlines has a 25% stake in Air NZ, while Brierley Investments has 30%.
Ansett is a major Australian domestic carrier that competes with Qantas. The two have faced stiff competition from no-frills startups Impulse Airlines Ltd. and Virgin Blue in the past year, but the local competition regulator recently allowed Qantas to take over Impulse.
Ansett has lost market share in recent months, exacerbated by the grounding of its entire 767 fleet around Easter due to safety concerns, which highlighted the financial problems of Ansett and its Air NZ parent.
(Copyright (c) 2001, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.).
DOW JONES INTERNATIONAL NEWS 29/05/2001
 
Laserjet
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 1:18 pm

I'm being completely patriot here, but I don't like the sound of this plan. The last thing we want to have in the Australasian air market is a pally relationship being Air NZ, Qantas and Singapore Airlines. Also Singapore Airlines has a large stake in Virgin Atlantic, and in turn Virgin Blue. The ultimate result is likely to mean less competition across the Tasman, a return to a duopoly in Australia, and a monopoly in NZ.

I know Ansett and its parent Air NZ are struggling, but they have a strong future, if they can get past this hurdle. Both airlines have a great product, which should see them both right. Patience.
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 1:27 pm

I don't think that either the OZ Govt or the NZ Govt would allow it. If they do, the trans tasman traffic would be all under the QF/NZ banner...

they won't allow it!! for sure!!

my 2c

Jimmy
 
SQFFP
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 1:39 pm

If QF really buys Air NZ and SQ buys Ansett, would there be any changes with regard to the existing alliances? We all know that Air NZ, Ansett, and SQ belong to the star alliance, whereas, QF belongs to one world.

Any thought of this people?
 
jupiter2
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 2:01 pm

Personally I think this would be good for the 3 major airlines in OZ/NZ, QF and NZ would own the South Pacific in turn so would OneWorld. The QF/NZ fleets are nearly identical and maintenance costs and the like could be reduced through economies of scale. Adding to that ANZ would have access to the recent QF orders if only through the excersing of options for partial fleet replacement.
For Ansett there would be the much needed capital injection and I think you would find that they would be expected to operate trans Tasman in a big way, forget about the N.Z domestic market, no offense to those in N.Z but probably not worth the effort. Ansett International would also be expected to start those much talked about services to the U.S as there parent SQ would expect them to have at least a reasonable presence in the trans Pacific market, as well as trans Tasman.
In turn Virgin Blue could become the low cost operator that Ansett needs to compete with the lost cost QF operation with the old Impulse fleet which is operated under contract, remembering that SQ holds 50% of Virgin Atlantic and I'm sure that Sir Richard would like to see some return on his investment before it to goes under.
All in all you would find a much stronger QF/NZ and AN as they would all benefit, in particular I feel that Ansett would in the long term be the big winner if only through the opportunity to update its fleet and have the owner they wanted all along.
Also from what I have been reading this looks like it has been under discussion for quite a while, as QF/NZ/SQ as well as Brierley investments have all released the statements to media and respective stock exchanges at the same time. I would not surprise me that this set of deals is only requiring finalisation of prices and government approvals.
RL
 
AJ
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 3:16 pm

Only a decade or so ago Qantas owned 25% of Air New Zealand, and codeshared on trans-Tasman flights. What a circle!
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 3:26 pm

GREAT NEWS!!!
That article has just made the highlight of my day!!!
Great move QF! Well done!
I am happy with this whole plan actually.
I think it is great that QF is looking into buying the stake, and I think it is just as good to see Ansett go from ANZ to Singapore Airlines!

I hope the best for Qantas, and I hope the governments approve of it. But certainly, there will be very much debate about this between the two airlines. Will Air New Zealand really want this?

Mikey,
Don't worry! Qantas flight attendants smile too!

Regards
QantasAirways
The spirit of Australia
Spirit of Australia
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 3:56 pm

Well this is a shocker.

This is too compliated

The two airlines are in different alliances! How is this going to work? Will ANZ go into OneWorld? Note that it's QF buying into AZ and not the other way. Oh deat  Sad

SQ buying AN?! Well a shock to me. A shock to you. However, if AN and SQ don't get their act together, it's going to be disaster for Cheong's hair-do

Quotes:

""The proposal is only a concept."

The Singapore carrier said it would consider the strategic and financial implications of the proposition and weigh it against other options that were available."

"Qantas' plan is to acquire substantive ownership of Air New Zealand by also buying Brierley Investment Ltd.'s (A.BRY) shareholding in the New Zealand carrier, and for Air New Zealand to sell all of Ansett to Singapore Airlines," Singapore Airlines said in a statement issued from its Sydney office.

Singapore Airline's exit from Air NZ (AIZ) could be good for bottom line as SIA then won't have to equity account for Air NZ losses, says Michelle Tan, head of investment at DBS Asset Management in Singapore; in fact, depending on price, SIA might reap capital gains from selling 25% Air NZ stake. "It's more positive as far as profitability goes." SIA shares up 5.5% at S$13.40. (HIJ)

though warning Singapore Airlines (Singapore: SIAL.SI - news) (S55) entry into local market via possible acquisition of Ansett would bring "well-capitalized competitor" into the market.

SIA would also not want to own Air NZ as Qantas belongs to the OneWorld alliance of airlines while SIA, is a key part of the rival Star Alliance, analysts said.

--------
I'm on a wait and see policy on this. I'm not happy about losing a Star Alliance member to some OneWorldy person. Also, what if AN is crap!?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
VH-BZF
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 3:58 pm

Courtesy of ABC Online:

Talks underway on possible shake-up of aviation industry

Talks are underway on a possible shake-up of the Australasian aviation industry following the proposed deal involving Qantas, Ansett and its owner Air New Zealand, and Singapore Airlines.

Qantas says it was approached by an unnamed investment bank less than a month ago about a proposal to buy a controlling share in Air New Zealand and sell off Ansett to Singapore Airlines.

Shares in Qantas and Air New Zealand rose sharply on news of the prospective deal this morning, but Qantas spokesman Michael Sharp says it is too soon to say whether the deal will go ahead.

"At this stage we are awaiting further advice from the board of Air New Zealand and the two major shareholders in Air New Zealand before deciding whether the matter will be taken further," Mr Sharp said.

Air New Zealand spokeswoman Angela Schaftenaar says the proposal is under consideration.

"It's too early for Air New Zealand's board to form a view.

"The board has established an independent committee of directors to consider the proposal," she said.

Meanwhile, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission says it will review any deal but the biggest hurdle is likely to be New Zealand's limits on foreign ownership.


Well, my thoughts are initially that it won't go ahead, but it certainly once again presents some interesting options! Maybe it might be a good thing for QF to get cash strapped NZ. AN needs a good strong partner if it is to ever realise it's long held ambition to challenge QF for greater market share.

Cheers - BZF Big grin


Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 4:10 pm

I still don't like the idea of QF taking or trying to take a Star member away. That idea is quite horrible. Anyway, here's what the lovely airline SIngapore Airlines, has to say:

Statement On Proposal

Recently, Qantas had exploratory discussions with Singapore Airlines (SIA) at management level on the idea of Qantas buying SIA’s stake in Air New Zealand.

Qantas’ plan is to acquire substantive ownership of Air New Zealand by also buying Brierley Investment Limited’s shareholding in the New Zealand carrier, and for Air New Zealand to sell all of Ansett to Singapore Airlines.

The proposal is only a concept. In the interests of shareholders, Singapore Airlines must consider with care the strategic and financial implications of the proposition and weigh it against other options that are available.

If there are material developments in this regard, Singapore Airlines will make the proper disclosure.

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 4:13 pm

This is big.
I personally want to see ANZ in One World (sorry Singapore_air) but I think they may stay in STAR.
Go Qantas

Regards
QF
Spirit of Australia
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 4:19 pm

Here's what Qantas has to say

Qantas confirms discussions
Sydney, 29 May 2001:

Qantas Airways Limited today confirmed it had been approached (Approached???????) to consider a transaction that would involve Qantas taking a significant stake in Air New Zealand and Air New Zealand selling Ansett and Ansett International to Singapore Airlines.

Following the approach, Qantas had preliminary discussions with the major shareholders in Air New Zealand, Singapore Airlines and Brierley Investments Limited, and also the Chairman of Air New Zealand, Sir Selwyn Cushing.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer Geoff Dixon said Qantas would await further advice or contact from the Board of Air New Zealand and the two major shareholders in Air New Zealand before deciding whether it would take the matter further
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Oz777
Posts: 516
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 9:48 am

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 4:51 pm

Well a few of our contributors here are running around with their hands in the air......but

Read the language.

The word "concept" is being used.

No firm proposals have been put to any of the Boards.

Instigated by a merchant bank (operating on behalf of an institutional investor)

Qantas say they were approached, others say QF did the approaching.

ANZ shares rose 9% today - look for a large parcel being sold.

As to SQ being the saviour of AN - well AN needs more than a fleet injection to cure its problems. And SQ has not exactly been effusive about taking up the share in AN just quietly - particularly since AN has lost over 10% market share.

Lets look at the hurdles to be overcome;
ACCC agreement:
NZCC agreement:
NZ Govt to change the rules re foreign ownership of ANZ (if the BIL share is sold):
Aust Govt FIRB approval is OK:
Ansett/Air NZ Engineering Co-op to be disbanded:
SQ board to approve acquisition of a poor performing asset:
Alliances to be resolved;
Res system integration;
Renegotiation of almost all the Air Services licencing capacity arrangements out of Australia (ANZ 5th freedom rights).

This probably would not be accomplished in under 6-9 months. A very neat way to distract the ANZ board from what it really should be focusing on - getting AN liquid again.

Any one here care for a wager as to the outcome?

(Oh well I should be happy really - means a lot more business for the lawyers again!! - and the ANZ Board have shown themselves to make poor decisions, but then Cushing has stepped aside......hmmm)

Oz777
 
F27
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 5:12 pm

I hope it does happen to see the Air New Zealand get a big dose of its own medicine back. it has made a huge mess of Ansett and just the sort of thing that will be the best news inside Australia for many many years. I hope Qantas tears the heart out of Air New Zealand like they did here in Australia. Lots of work coming back accross the Tasman.
 
Oz777
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 5:21 pm

......and heading up to Singapore!!!!
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 6:29 pm

I'm staggered, but anyway, back to reality:

No such deal will occur with the situation as it is at present.

As Oz777 said, there are too many hurdles.

However, as with all such mergers, concessions are made, deals are done.

Many posts have concentrated on the monopoly on trans-tasman traffic and NZ domestic traffic. I think a possible, attractive deal would be to give all AirNZ transtasman (as well as SYD-LAX) to Ansett and QF take the rest. The new group would use the current QF network.

This would be great for Ansett as it would provide them a great start to their international expansion hopes which would be developped further by SQ. There is little fleet commonality problems as the 763s, 733s and 744s used are all current AN fleet types (not sure about powerplant commonality with the 763s though)

As for NZ domestic, there is obviously a need for concessions too. The new Qantas/Origin Pacific deal could be transferred in its entirety to Ansett/SQ while QF keeps the AirNZ network (or vice versa but that would be more unlikely given AirNZs current dominance

The other player is Virgin Blue. They obviously have links to the hypothetical new Ansett/SQ but have also stated their desire to remain active in their own right and more importantly under their own name.

Who knows what will happen there. Perhaps there will be a deal as has been discussed in the past few weeks, perhaps there won't, perhaps they'll go bust (or do an 'Impulse' and run to Ansett and submit to all their demands).

The final question: a small yet important one: Freedom Air. Will QF keep it and do an 'Impulse' ,will they keep it as they are as a fully-owned but otherwise independant low-cost airline or will they also be traded/disbanded etc as part of the inevitable concessions?

All in all, my reaction (after much thought) is positive. I am a self-confessed AN fan, yet I also like to see QF doing well for reasons of national pride and because I have family working for them.

The deal is great for QF as they suddenly become MUCH bigger and more powerful. This is what QF always want.

It is good for AN as they are rid of AirNZ who despite the best intentions I'm sure (everyone wants to make money) have totally screwed them round. They also would have the backing of one of the leading airline brands in the world and one with huge reserves of cash just waiting for somewhere to be put!!!! The deal would most certainly increase their international presence, especially as I cannot see any deal going ahead without AN getting some of the Transtasman traffic from AirNZ.

I'd love comments on these proposals.

And I'm thrilled to see a thread of positive comments with very little AN/QF/NZ warring

cheers

Alex
 
wirraway
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:32 am

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 7:00 pm

Oz777 wrote:

Any one here care for a wager as to the outcome?

Yep, I'll wager you AUD$100 that Air NZ will lose
control of Ansett despite your mentioned hurdles
to be overcome.

Wirraway
 
aussie_
Posts: 1600
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 7:05 pm

Wirraway:

just a reminder that A$100 isn't much these days. I'm in France for six months and I can tell you from personal experience  Smile If you want to be brave, make that USD100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Smile

For once I agree with GoAirCanada. Both are winners from a deal.

I also have a gut feeling it will go through, but I reiterate my comment that significant concessions will have to be made, concessions that will totally change the Australian aviation market
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 7:16 pm

Aussie
You are right there, Oz777 make that USD$100 if you
are agreeable, if not AUD100 is ok.

Wirraway
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 8:17 pm

Go_Air_Canada: What about: Go Singapore Airlines!

Now then. As the person ('ve forgotten the name) pointed out, there are many obstacles in this path

All the airlines are using the word "Concept" which leads me to believe that only informal discussions are taking place.

To the Alliance questions:

I think that there is a strong chance that ANZ will stay in Star IF QF doesn't take over Brierly (or whatever's) stake. It would be, to put it mildly, a DISASTER if ANZ left Star. There would be no connections from Australasia to Europe and the US and that is a DISASTER. I think I shall just hope and pray that Brierly doesn't sell to QF

Australia:

Lovely. Hot. Is it snowing there? Anyway, I can't see much changing if SIA hops into OZ. I would hope that AN Inter, develops its routes more than just concentrating on it's Australian market. Is it that valuable that they have to hide all their 767s in there?

Singapore Airlines:

SIA wouldn't have done this if they couldn't benefit in some way so I have to trust them. :S
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
jupiter2
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:14 pm

Singapore_Air, yes the Australian market is big enough for a fleet of 767's to never leave Australian airspace. Between them QF and AN have some 46 767's plus the ones NZ have, with I would say up to 30 operatingly purely domestic routes.
If QF get their hands on NZ there is not a chance that NZ would stay in Star, OneWorld will dominate the South Pacific with nearly all the local airlines FJ/PH etc all aligned with either QF or NZ. AN would have to operate trans Tasman as much to satisfy competition concerns as out of necessity, there is no way that Star alliance would leave the whole market to OneWorld. AN would also be expected to operate across the Pacific to the U.S as well as building up their Asian network, as much to compliment what SQ provide out of Australia/N.Z but also to ensure that Star do have a significant presence not only domestically but to have a true network of services to all of Asia, not just through SIN and BKK with SQ and TG respectively.
BTW I think you might find that Brierley is probably the one that got this whole ball rolling, ANZ and AN are most likely to much of a drag on the company to warrant continue investment in these increasingly difficult times for airlines. This is a way to benefit most airlines in the region as well as ridding itself of an increasingly unwanted holding.
RL
 
aussie_
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:29 pm

I agree Jupiter 2, well said.

Anyone have any opinions on what concessions QF/NZ might make (re: my post further up)???? I'd be interested to hear ideas from people who have more experience than I.
 
trentis
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:44 pm

Yes Yes Yes YES!!!!
I got so excited just hearing about this!
Although I love both NZ and AN, they would be so much better if they went their separate ways.
If NZ goes to Oneworld, AN can continue with expansion plans, get a new fleet quicker and become a more dominant Star member - think of the traffic that could come Ansett's way!
Also, the Virgin Blue thing isn't a problem, is it? SQ only has a stake in Virgin Atlantic, whereas Virgin Blue is 100% owned by Richard Branson. I'm sure SQ could influence things there if they wanted to though.

Ansett Australia. Absolutely!!

PS - If the deal goes through, where do you think Toomey will go? I can see him very easily going to Ansett.
 
User avatar
BNE
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 pm

This deal could be good for Virgin Blue, Qantas and Air New Zealand own most of the trans tasman some of which would have to be transferred to Ansett International but also Virgin could get involved.
I think things can only get better for Virgin Blue.
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
luftaom
Posts: 553
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:52 pm

I can't personally see this going through. If Ms Helen isn't going to pass the legislation necessary to allow SQ to increase its holding in NZ from 25% to 40something% I can't see her (and her Government) letting the New Zealand flag carrier slip into Australian control.
I would be suprised if it got the tick of approval from all appropriate regulatory bodies. I think we will see Ms Helen allowing SQ to get their hands on an extra 20% or so of Air NZ to take them up to 40something% holding, before we see QF getting their mits on 55%.

Best Regards

Bradley Mortimer
Sydney, Australia

 
JAL
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 9:59 pm

Should Qantas succeeds in getting ANZ expect ANZ to leave Star for OneWorld.


ANZ, a member of OneWorld, sounds good to me.



Best Regards,
JAL
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:03 pm

Aussie
As it looks now QF are trying for 55% of Air NZ, problem
being the NZ govt will have to give a big concession to
to get over the 25% to any one country legislation.

SIA are going for 100% of Ansett domestic and 49%
of Ansett International, exactly what Air NZ owns
now, I cannot see any problem with the Australian
govt with this, so I guess the whole deal rests with
the NZ govt.

I am still reading elsewhere that a few people think
Continental Airlines may be mixed up in all this, although
I think this is unlikely.

Wirraway
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:12 pm

Lovely post Jupiter2. However, you've depressed me.

I can only hope now that this deal remains a concept and falls through into a Tasmanian hole.

It would be a total disaster for Star if this happens.

And remember. What about this 3-Way Tie-Up between Singapore AIrlines - Ansett Holdings - Air New Zealand.

I don't think Cheong will be happy. Hope he keeps his hair on.

I am praying SIA doesn't go through with this. Shall I start digging the hole?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:22 pm

Oneworld is starting to look very good servicewise

British Airways
QANTAS
Aerlingus
Cathay
Swissair (hopefully)
MAS (hopefully)
Finnair
And ANZ (hopefully)

I know i have missed some out but these are the carriers that are known for thier GREAT service looks like star is gunna have some competition
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:26 pm

If the deal falls over that still leaves the problem of
how Air NZ refleets AN, not to forget analysts are
saying they will loose NZ$180-200 mil this financial
year.

Wirraway
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 10:42 pm

I hope Air NZ wakes up and says no to the deal, and after the evil Qantas goes away, NZ sell the 49 or 51% of AN to SQ...

It makes more sense... Joining the weakers to flight the big...

And so we won't miss the AUD399 OZ-NZ fares.... ^_^

my 2 c

Jimmy
 
wirraway
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RE: Qantas To Buy Part Of ANZ, SQ To Buy AN

Tue May 29, 2001 11:05 pm

Just picked this posting up on PPrune, and may
possibly be the answer this deal will go through:
Wirraway

Tom Tipper and others -
Not 100% sure, but didn't the SAM (Single Aviation Market) that Paul Keating and the NZ government at the time made up was to the make AUS and NZ one aviation market? Therfore from what I remember, any AUS company could operate 'VH' aircraft in NZ and any NZ company could operate 'ZK' aircraft in AUS without obtaining the respective countries licences.
To this, I assume that each country could invest in the other countries aviation industry. Therefore, we here in Australia are not considered in the maximum 25% shareholding.
I think this is also how Air NZ got hold of 100% of Ansett.
As I said - not 100% sure, but anyone else remember the deal (SAM) that was done around 1992?
P.S. - This was also when Keating gave the go ahead for QF to buy all of TN!