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LAX
Topic Author
Posts: 2186
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2000 11:06 am

Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:22 am

Only some Airbus aircraft currently have the sidestick controls.....am I correct? .... A330/340/319/320/321.

Any more?

A300 has the traditional yoke, right?

Do you like the yoke or sidestick better?

What are the advantages to each?

Thank You.
 
United747-200
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2000 7:57 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:30 am

Hi,
I think I would like flying with a yoke better. If I had a joystick, I think it would feel too much like a video game...or a fighter jet! I think the yoke would make me feel like I had more control.

United747-200
 
User avatar
LAX
Topic Author
Posts: 2186
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RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:32 am

That's what I was thinking, too, UNITED.

Yoke all the way!
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:32 am

I think that thats what airbus was trying to get. Well I would personaly perfer a stick as F/O and a yoke as captain as I would feel rather uncomforterble flying with my left hand.
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:36 am

This is like asking:

stick vs. auto (transmission)

Linux vs. NT

PC vs. Apples

vi vs. emacs

or (the ancient) Betamax vs. VHS

The bottom line is you'll never get a concensus.
 
VH-KCT*
Posts: 435
Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 4:01 pm

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:37 am

I would have to agree with all of you, as a student pilot, I find I feel completely in control with a full yoke at my disposal. Using a little joystick, such as in FS2000, The pitch and roll don't seem separate as I feel they should.

Cheers.

Rick.
I am The Stig
 
airplanetire
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 9:57 am

I'd rather have the yoke. I don't think that I would feel like I was in much control with a sidestick.
 
RAAFController
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 9:50 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 10:01 am

As someone with some experience with fighters (F/A 18's) and also with a lot of friends in the airline industry, I think you will find that most pilots do not like the joystick option. Oh, and the way the Airbus joystick system works is quite different to that on a fighter. The main problem with the Airbus joystick is that it does not give any feel to the pilot (traditdional yoke systems give feel, ie had manourvers require more pressure etc. also if there is a problem with a control surface it can generally be felt....one gets used to 'feeling' how to fly)

The airbus joystick is also a strange design, in that to bank the aircraft, say to the left, you push the joystick left and release, the aircraft will continure banking until the hoystick is pushed right. it does not automatically right itself when the stick is released as on most airceraft/ computer games.
 
a32
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 1999 5:18 pm

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 11:25 am

RAAFcontroller you are incorrect. The Airbus flight controls are a demand load factor and roll rate. The pilot input signals a required roll rate and when the stick is released the aircraft returns to a 0 roll rate. i.e. the bank angle does not increase or decrease anymore. To level the aircraft you signal a roll rate in the opposite direction and when you are at the level attitude you release the stick and voila... no overbanking or underbanking tendencies.

I bet no one here has flown the system. I have flown both and truly believe that each is unique however the stick input ( particularly when combined with the Fly by wire A320 ) is a lot less stressful and smoother. BTW the B777 has FBW and a yoke. This yoke does not give you the feel of the aircraft as many contributors hare claim is better.

From a pilot perspective though meals are much easier to eat with no yoke. Not too many spots on my tie.

best regards
 
RAAFController
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 9:50 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Wed May 30, 2001 11:35 am

A32, what you say in your first para is actually what i was saying, without getting into complicated (for this forum anyway) roll rates. I agree with you totally, I was just trying to explain in laymans terms......obviously unsuccessfully.

i have flown the A320 simulator (Ansett Australia...not some dodgy computor game) and compared to other aircraft (all with yokes) that I have flown i have to say that the feel from a yoke is much better. maybe one day, if the RAAF ever gets a B777 (highly unlikely) i will have the opprotunity to try that!
 
757PF
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 4:10 pm

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Thu May 31, 2001 4:31 am

Gotta be YOKE.
 
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Crosswind
Posts: 2537
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RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Thu May 31, 2001 5:21 am

Having flown (light) aircraft with both a stick and a yoke, it really doesn't make a lot of difference. Within a very short space of time it is possible to fly an aircraft accurately using either control type and transition freely between the two without any problems. I can honestly say I have no personal preference for either - there are just subtle differences in the type and magnitude of inputs you need to make in each

I'm more interested in how the aircraft flies and handles, than whether I'm using the stick or the yoke.

As for the negative comments about the Airbus sidestick and "not wanting to fly with your left hand," all pilots are trained from day one to fly with their left hands - in all aircraft types. It is when you sit in the Right seat for the first time and have to learn to fly with your right hand that things feel unusual... And that applies equally to aircraft with both a stick or a yoke.

The differing philosophies of Airbus/Boeing, and subsequent argument are mainly concerned with the lack of feel provided by FBW Airbus controls, rather than a fundamental flaw with the sidestick as a method of controlling an aircraft...

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Guest

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Thu May 31, 2001 5:31 am

ILOVEA340 You only ever fly with one hand anyway. As an FO you have your right hand on the yoke/stick and left hand on the throttle, and as a captain your left hand in on the yoke/stick and your right hand is on the throttle.

I think you have to fly them both before being able to decide. The side stick gives the advantage of more room, which makes other cockpit duties easier. And according to some of my mates who have flown both it take about 1 hour in the sim, and then the sidestick becomes natural!
Iain
 
bio15
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Thu May 31, 2001 6:36 am

This was discussed on the tech-ops forum. The general response of pilots to that question was stick over yoke. That was because of two things:
1) The stick leaves more room for meals - airbus flight decks have sort of retractable trays in front of the pilot/FO.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer


2) The yoke gets in the way with some of the instruments on the front panel and you would have to look from above which is uncomfortable specially during landings. Some said it didn't happen and it depended on who was flying and the seat config.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray


Still Boeing must have a reason to still go for the yoke on their aircraft. As A32 stated, the B777 is FBW and in that way it is similar to Airbus's system, so it all goes down to comfortable or not.
About flying with the right or left hand, there's no point on discussing since you'll still fly left hand on Boeings during landing as you control throttle w/right hand.

-bio
 
Guest

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Thu May 31, 2001 6:40 am

Bio - The yoke does not get in the way of the instruments.
Iain
 
IFlyADesk
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 6:36 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Thu May 31, 2001 7:40 am

Personally, I am totally inept left handed. Once when I first started flying, I tried a curcuit around the pattern in the right seat in a Cessna. (Miserable experiment) It's true that one hand is on the control device (yoke) and the other is on the throttle (for takeoff). Once in an A-320 cockpit after a flight I asked the Captain what it was like to fly left-handed. He said it wasn't a problem for him, because he WAS left-handed!

I guess that anything is possible, just ask all the right-handed Airbus pilots out there right now.


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Photo © AirNikon



...not for me.
 
bio15
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Yoke Vs. Sidestick: Which Is Best?

Tue Jun 05, 2001 4:58 am

lain, I never said it happened to everyone. And still it does happen

How about reading this post from JETPILOT lain?
"On the 727 the yoke is directly in your line of sight of the HSI. When shooting an approach you need to look around the yoke, or move foward to see over it.

It is definetly obtrusive."

You might be flying a non-obstrusive-yoke plane, but don't generalize

-bio

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