Reggaebird
Topic Author
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Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 12:19 pm

Hey all,

Anyone know of a large commercial jetliner (737-sized and up) that was delivered new, entered service and crashed or was written off in a very short time?

One that comes to mind is a China Airlines Boeing 747-400 that slid into Hong Kong harbour in 1993. I don't know when it was delivered but the first one was delivered in 1988 so it could not have been more than 5 years old. The tail was so stuck in the mud that the authorities had to use DYNAMITE to free it. It was written off shortly thereafter.


Thornton
 
ILOVEA340
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 12:20 pm

there was a new AF A340 that burned up a while back.
 
oxygen
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 1:17 pm

well B767-400er, it seems to me that China is very different from China Airlines of Taiwan.

By the way, one Braniff 707 crashed on its delivery flight. The plane was a 707-227, S/N 17691, and crashed on october 19, 1959. Really short lived indeed.
 
AA737-823
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Aha, Air France...

Wed May 30, 2001 1:32 pm

Let us not forget the Air France Airbus A320 that crashed at the air show... it was very young also...

Randy
 
na
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 5:17 pm

Braniff "had" a B707-227 that crashed even before its first revenue flight during pre-delivery-tests in 1959.
 
trintocan
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 6:26 pm

That AF A320-100 which crashed at the airshow at Habsheim in 1988 was indeed just 3 days with the company when it went down.

China Airlines is the Taiwanese national carrier, not an airline from the People's Republic of China. Chinese airlines in fact have a very good safety record due to strictly enforced standards at home. Taiwan, on the other hand, while sharing the registration letter "B" seems to have had major problems with airline safety in recent years.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
trintocan
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 6:29 pm

Oh yes, I just remembered. How about that Canadian Pacific Comet which crashed during its delivery flight in Karachi (?1954)? That plane was deliberately routed across Asia in order to demonstrate its capabilities but sadly it ended up being a major public relations disaster.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
gkirk
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Wed May 30, 2001 6:43 pm

Wasnt there an A330-300 crashed during flight tests?? That didnt have any career at all.  Sad
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
N400QX
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 7:14 am

ANY of the Comets would be good examples...
 
philb
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 7:58 am

N400QX,

Sorry to have to have a go at yet another teen BUT if you are going to post on a forum which is meant to help people with FACTS please post FACTS.

First off, ANY of the Comets? Which Comets? MK1, 2, 3 or 4?

I'll be charitable and assume you mean the Comet 1.

Let's see:

Of those that crashed, G-ALYP had flown for 3 years and 1 day when it crashed and had 1 year 8 months and 2 days in airline service after being used as a development aircraft.

G-ALYR had flown for 3 days short of 2 years and been in airline service for 14 months and 8 days.

G-ALYV had flown for 1 year and 23 days and been in service for 1 year and 9 days.

G-ALYY had flown for 2 days short of 1 year and 7 months and been in service for 1 year 6 months and 22 days.

G-ALYZ had flown for 1 month and 3 days and had been in service for 27 days - now that one probably qualifies somewhere in the top 20 or so.

CF-CUN had flown for 2 months and 7 days and had not entered service, so that may rate in the top 50.

F-BGSC flew for just 2 months and 10 days with only 25 days in service, another top 50 contender.

Whilst the majority of Comet 1s were withdrawn and cocooned or scrapped (a couple of the fuselage cocoons lay around Farnborough until comparatively recently). RCAF Comet 1XBs flew until the mid 1960s and some of the RAF Comet 2s went on until the 1970s.

PLEASE try to be more accurate and don't generalise.

There are people out ther trying to learn from this forum.

 
GDB
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 8:16 am

The British Midland B737-400 which crashed at East Midlands Airport in 1989, was pretty new.
I remember hearing about a UTA B747-300 which was burned-out during ground maintenace in 1985, I think it was brand new. The story I heard was that the fire was started during cleaning, but I could be wrong.
 
Ned Kelly
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 8:35 am

The UTA 747-3B3 (F-GDUA) was delivered 3.83 & written off 3.85.

There was a Trident (G-ARPY) that crashed on a test flight in 1966 prior to delivery.

An American Airlines 707-123 (N7514A) was delivered in 6.59 & was w/o 8.59. This one & a couple of others never made it to a "B" conversion.

If I can think of a few more <1 year old I will post tomorrow as it's now past midnight in the uk.

Ned..
 
N400QX
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 8:48 am

>PLEASE try to be more accurate and don't generalise

Whoa there... don't freak out. I posted with the assumption (I guess you can't assume too much with some people) that everyone knew what I was talking about. I wasn't going to waste my time naming off all the Comets that had problems leading to the eventual fleet grounding...

Do you try to attack my posts on every thread?
 
Soku39
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 8:48 am

it never crashed but the Dasault Mercure never really got off the ground except with Air Inter.
The Ohio Player
 
asgeirs
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 10:15 am

On December 29th, 1972, an Eastern Airlines Lochheed L-1011 TriStar (N310EA) crashed into the Everglades in Florida. The airliner, who was operating on flight #401, was delivered 4 months earlier. 73 of 173 onboard survived.
Reykjavik Aviation Photography - Just bring the aircraft to us and we'll photograph them! :-)
 
Guest

RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 1:17 pm

Delta Convair 880 N8804E

Delivered: 5/6/60
In Service: 5/15/60
Crashed in training accident: 5/23/60
Total flying time: 127 hours

source:Convair 880 & 990 by Jon Proctor
 
Red Panda
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RE: China Airlines' 744 Crashed At KaiTak

Thu May 31, 2001 2:05 pm

That China Airlines' 744 was just about four months old at the time of the crash at HKG. The 744 could not be used again due to intrusion of sea water that damaged all the electronic systems and engines.

regards
r panda
 
VirginA340
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 2:16 pm

How many died on the Braniff 707? I haven't heard of any fatal crashes with any of Braniff's Jet powered aircraft.
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 2:20 pm

Comet
Braniff 707
AF A320

Very young deaths.

 Sad
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 2:20 pm

No one has mentioned the West Coast DC-9 flight that went down in the mountains in the 1960's shortly after delivery. I forget the details.
 
milesrich
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 2:21 pm

American lost two 707-123's on training flights on Long Island, in 1959.

Braniff only lost on 707-227, near Moses Lake, WA on a pre delivery flight.

American put its initial L-188, N6101A into the East River 10 days after it inaugerated service between MDW and LGA in early 1959.

CO lost a DC-7B pre delivery when it collided with an Air Force fighter over Southern Calif and hit a middle school. The incident is dramatized in the movie, La Bamba, as Richie Valens was a student on the playground when the DC-7 came down, and had recurring nightmares about the event. Of course, he died a few years later with Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper shortly after takeoff from MCW on February 3, 1959.
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
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Braniff 707-227

Thu May 31, 2001 8:32 pm

Braniff 707-227 crashed during a training flight either pre- or just post- delivery.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
shankly
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 9:04 pm

Well done PhilB on the comet. Facts is facts and the tragedy of the Comet 1's created a fine airliner in the Mk4.

Back to the topic, the Braniff & Northwest Orient L188 Electra's that were unlucky enough to have their wings fall off in flight in 1959, within a year of build, deserve a nomination.

Interesting to note in the well publicised accident data bases the number of training accidents in the early jets as the piston age gave way to the jet age.
L1011 - P F M
 
A40-TY
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 9:16 pm

The Eastern Airlines L-1011 TriStar (flight 401) that crashed in the Everglades in 1972, had not been with the company for long, only a few months I think.
I love it when a plan comes together
 
L-188
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Thu May 31, 2001 9:19 pm

Didn't MEA lose a 990 to a Isreali commado raid back in the 60's. I think it had just been delivered and had yet to enter revenue service.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Fri Jun 01, 2001 1:44 am

...L-188...
2 Lebanese International CV-990s were indeed destroyed in the 12/28/68 raid, but they were middle aged by 1968. However, a MEA 707 that was delivered from the factory 10 days earlier was also destroyed.
(also according to the Proctor 880/990 book)
 
philb
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Fri Jun 01, 2001 2:05 am

N400QX,

To your question: Only posts that are either inaccurate or smack of the National Enquirer.

"Any of the Comets" means you can pick any one out of the total production and it will answer the question.

That is a totally inaccurate answer.

You say "I posted with the assumption (I guess you can't assume too much with some people) that everyone knew what I was talking about. I wasn't going to waste my time naming off all the Comets that had problems leading to the eventual fleet grounding".

Hang on a minute..you are offering an answer to a question and assuming the audience for that answer (few, if any, of whom you know) have the same or a better knowledge than you AND, at the same time, you totally disregard those reading your answer who have a lesser knowledge than you.

Just because the information is in the public domain doesn't mean everyone either has access to it, or has seen it, or understands the context.

An example of what I'm saying from this thread:

VirginA340 says:

"How many died on the Braniff 707?"

The Braniff 707 accident was one of two (the other being the American B707 which crashed 2 months and 4 days earlier) which were widely written up at the time and led to the 707 fin being made taller and the under fin being fitted to eliminate controlability problems. In both cases all on board were killed.

At the time the Braniff accident could have killed off the 707 as the control problems seemed to be hitting the 707 in a similar way to the metal fatigue problem had hit the Comet and, as such, the accident was extremely well known.

But Virgin A340's post goes beyond the 707:

"I haven't heard of any fatal crashes with any of Braniff's Jet powered aircraft."

On 6 August 1966 BAC1-11 N1553 of Braniff crashed from altitude near Falls City, Nebraska whilst operating a scheduled flight, killing all on board.

Investigation proved that the aircraft had penetrated a very active storm front full of violent cells producing windshear and vertical speeds which literally tore the back off the aircraft.

The accident was a turning point in the approach to handling aircraft in the vicinity of active storm fronts and is still one of the text book examples used in both airline training and avaition meteorology today.

Yet at least one member of this forum had no knowledge of either of these high profile accidents.

Now back to the Comet. Whilst you assumed the Comet 1 accidents would produce the shortest time between fisrt flight/entry into service and being written off, there are a number of Comet 4 accidents which destroyed far younger aircraft than most of the written off Comet 1s.

G-ARJG 4B first flew 8 June 1961 and entered BEA service 18 days later, crashiing at Ankara 5 months and 25 days later.

SA-R-7 of the Saudi Royal Flight crashed at Nice 355 days after its first flight and 9 months 5 days after delivery.

SU-AMW of United Arab Airlines first flew on April 3 1962, was delivered 13 days later and crashed in Thailand 3 months 16 days after its first flight.

So, for different reasons, the Comet 4 had an equally poor record in terms of short lives in service.

I don't enjoy getting at anyone but this forum boasts of being the place where aviation facts can be found and industry matters can be debated.

Unfortunately, there is a distinct lack of accuracy in a great number of posts and too many people post "guesses", "hearsays" and half remembered stories as fact.

These are spread around the world without being proof read or checked, in a way no book or factual magazine would be (and even they publish errors) and the inaccuracies are picked up and requoted until they form a folk memory and are assumed to be the truth.

Many of us who are amateur or professional aviation historians or who have written papers and articles for both professional and enthusiast journals are fighting hard to stem this tide as the historic record is difficult enough to research without the addition of volumes of inaccuracies hitting the world every day.

Having been involved in setting up an aviation museum before the Internet and come across published data inaccuracies and conflictions relating to a particular aircraft, for which we had the complete service record, I am all too aware of the problems caused to researchers by generalised/totally false answers to questions which enter the record as true.

Finally, there are plenty of accurate accident records published on the net. A little research on these would provide far more accurate answers and a great deal of interesting research for many on this forum.









 
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iahcsr
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RE: Airliner With The Shortest Career

Fri Jun 01, 2001 3:35 am

CO had a 737-500 (Ship 643) written off after a less then good landing in GDL. The aircraft was less then a year old at the time.
Working very hard to Fly Right....

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