If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:03 am

Where would you start an airline if it was to be realistic startup. What would your destinations be after the first year? By my terms of realistic, I mean starting with about $85 million dollars, and a small fleet of planes. It would also mean that it has to be in the current airport rules. "I would fly a 757 LGA-LHR" would not work.

I would have 6 Dornier 328s flyin from PHL at the gates that are going to be built at the end of 'E' to attract the low-fare carriers flying

DCA 6x daily(pending slot approval.)
BOS 5x daily
CLT 4x daily
ROC 4x daily
PHF 2x daily
BTV 2x daily(seasonal)

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:05 am

I wanted to add that I am doing this because I am tired of the "I would fly from XXX to 50 destinations with 15 different fleet types."
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:09 am

and a few more major international destinations.

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:25 am

I would like to buy Spirit Airlines and run it properly. There could be a lot of value in this company, if it didn't have such a third-rate management team.

I would give the airline a new image (colorscheme, logo etc), continue to expand with older used MD80s, continue to bulk up FLL with new Caribean flying, continue to expand DTW as a low-fare competitor to NW (much like F9 and FL), and charge higher fares for strong demand destinations... (LGA).

US Air/TWA Fan
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 10:33 am

I would buy Vanguard and run it properly.
But Vanguard would be different...

First, I'd change the name. I like the name "Heartland". (I hope Heartland in Dayton works out, but if it doesn't someone should use the name).

Second, I would add newer aircraft to the the MD-80s.

Third, I would continue to build up the Kansas City hub and add a lot more non-stop flights and build frequencies.

Fourth, I would add a first class what AirTran did-and made a success.

Within a year the Heartland fleet would consist of about 10 MD-80s and 12 B737-200 and fly to about 18-20 cities.

All of the current Vanguard cities (14) would still be served and I would add the following: Boston; Seattle; Washington National (if I could get slots, if not, then Washington Dulles), Columbus or Dayton, Ohio; Orlando, and Salt Lake city.

Long term, the 737-200 would all be replaced by MD-80s or newer aircraft (such as the A318/A319).
Other cities to be served are: San Diego, PDX, PHX, Vancouver, IAH, STL, MIA, IND, Toronto, PHL, RDU, BNA, CLE, and many more.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 12:51 pm

This is what I posted before, and yes...I think I could do it for $85Mil,

Carrier name: Pioneer Airlines "The West is Near, When You Fly Pioneer"

Fleet: 10 Boeing 717s (leased)

Headquarters: Dallas Love Field, TX

Cities Served: Dallas (TX) Love Field, Houston (TX) Hobby, Baton Rouge LA, McAllen TX, Wichita KS, Olathe KS, West Memphis AR

Service: Single class layout, 5 abreast in the B717 with about a 32" pitch. Leather seats throughout (they cost more originally but they hold up real well...easy to keep clean). Some backwards facing seats in "lounge areas" in about 5 spots in the cabin.

Route structure: hourly svc between DAL & HOU (from 630 to 2230 Southbound, and from 0645 to 2245 Northbound).....5 trips a day DAL-AWM, DAL-ICT, and DAL-Olathe. 5 trips a day HOU-BTR and HOU-MFE. Friday night and Sunday night nonstops between DAL & MFE.

Fare structure. No advance purchase fares. Everything is a walkup fare. On the roughly 1-hour nonstops, fare would be $80 OW/$150 RT before 7:00 pm on weekdays. After 7:00 pm and all day Saturday & Sunday this rate drops to $45 OW/$ 80 RT. The roughly 2-hour 1-stop flights price out at $130 OW/$250 RT peak and $85 OW/$150 RT off peak.

On board service: No meals. Free cocktails, beer and wine on peak flights. Off peak flights...cocktails are 2 bucks and beer/wine is a buck. (we appreciate correct change). The "house wine" is Llano blush from Texas' own Llano Estacado winery.....the beer is Lone Star or Coors Light....and the only diet soda is Diet Doctor Pepper.

Flight attendant uniforms: Sorry, no hot pants. This is the 21st century. Winter/Fall: Wrangler jeans, western shirts, and cowboy boots. Summer/Spring: The Wranglers can be cut off to make shorts....a "Pioneer Airlines" tank top style t-shirt and tennis shoes.

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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 1:53 pm

I posted this on another one.

ZRH-BSL/GVA (A318) 5x daily
ZRH-JFK/BOS 3x weekly or ZRH-LGW-JFK/BOS 6x weekly
The ZRH n/s would be A330 or you could do the LGW stop with an A319.

3 A318's 80Y
5 A319's 100Y
1 A330-200 190Y
the A32S's are bought and the A330 is leased. It is sort of an elite economy idea.

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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:28 pm

Stratosphere Airways
Base: Phoenix Sky Harbor (PHX)
Fleet: 6 x MD-80 series jetliner.


Standard 2-3 layout in an all coach arrangment. Navy blue leather seats with red winged headrests.
Snacks will be served on all flights. Include:

Cookies, baked on board.
Hot pocket sandwiches.
Ceasar salad with french roll.
Coca-Cola, Canada Dry ginger ale, V-8 juice, orange juice, apple juice, Colombian coffee.

Blue bowling shirt with airline logo stitched in right chest, name in left chest. Stripes on shoulders indicate seniority. Two stripes otherwise. Three stripes indicate seniority. White stripes are for standard flight attendants, red are for multilingual flight attendants. Khaki slacks.
Winter: Solid red turtleneck and navy blue v-neck sweater. Stripes on sweater cuffs. Houndstooth slacks.

Marketing campaign:
"More than you expect, including the whole can of soda."

Our inaugural route will be Ft. Lauderdale, followed by Portland and Sacramento. Then we'll move into Delta territory by debuting the Salt Lake City route.

We would LIKE a cooperative service partnership with Midwest Express to Milwaukee and their network. I believe that it would be of mutual benifit.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 3:15 pm

how about a cheap airline flying A380's JFK-LHR-CDG-LHR-CDG-JFK and JFK-CDG-JFK
all flights 2X Daily with 4 A380-100's
then again you could start with 4 737-800's.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 5:14 pm

I would start an airline that would be named Sideway Airlines:

As a full-service carrier, Sideway Airlines and its commuter partner operate 272 daily non-stop flights to and from their hub at Raleigh-Durham International Airport. Sideway serves 36 destinations in 19 states. The Company recently took delivery of its tenth Boeing 737-700, creating a fleet of 38 aircraft, including four Fokker F100s, ten Boeing 737-700s and 24 Canadair Regional Jets. Sideway flies one of the youngest all-jet fleets in the world, with an average age of less than three years.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 5:22 pm

Okay...enough of the imitation about for real.

I would base the airline at TTN using 717s and FRJs.


MDW 717 5X
RDU 717 3X
ATL 717 5X
FLL 717 5X
TPA 717 3X
MCO 717 4X
DFW 717 2X
STL 717 2X

Fr Sa Su service to MYR using FRJ with 5x over the weekend.

Looks like I could get by with 6 FRJs and 11 717s
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 5:39 pm

Airline Name: Austral Europe
Base: Strasbourg, France
Hubs: Strasbourg
Busy routes: Newark (more than 2 daily)
Hamburg (more than 5 daily)
Copenhagen (more than 5 daily)
Frankfurt (more than 15 daily)
Boston (more than 2 daily)
Paris (more than 7 daily)

Alliances: Skyteam, route specific agreements

B777-200ER - 6
B767-300ER - 5
B737-500 - 4
B757-200 - 4 +
B757-200LR - 2 +
A320-200 - 8
A321-200 - 6
A300-600R - 3
Fokker 70 - 5 *
Saab 340 - 3 *
Emb.Brazillia - 2 #

+:operated by ae team subsiduary
*:operated by ae regionlink
#:operated by ae firstregional

subsiduary companies:

elipse (regional business airline)
ae holidays (leisure airline)


Soeul (2x weekly, 777)
Newark (15 x weekly, 777,767)
New York J.F.K (DL Codeshare) (daily - DL 767)
Dubai (5x weekly 777,767)
Kuwait (6x weekly 757LR)
Vancouver (6x weekly 777)
Houston (3xweekly direct 777,1x weekly v.Montreal 777)
Montreal (daily 777, continuation to St.Louis or Houston)
Chicago (6x weekly 767)
Lima (weekly 777 service, to cater for local industry)
St.Louis (6x weekly 777 via Montreal, 1x direct 777)
Pittsburgh (6xweekly 767 via BOS,1x weekly777 via BOS)
Boston (17x week, 767/777 mixture)
Philadelphia (5x week, 777, 3 via EWR, others direct)
Charlotte (weekly 767 via EWR, seasonal)
Atlanta (DL Codeshare - Daily 777)
Cincinnati (DL Codeshare - Daily 767)
Dahran (3x week A300)
Beirut (Daily A300)
Tel Aviv (9xweek 757)
Amman (Daily A300)
Moscow (Daily A300)

European/Near East
Hamburg,Berlin,Hannover,Stutgart,Munich (C/S LH), Frankfurt (C/S LH), Paris CDG, Paris Orly, LHR, Stansted, MAN, DUB,LYN, Grenoble, Nice, Bordeaux, Oslo, CPH, STO, HEL (C/S AY), Moscow, IST, Verona, MXP, LIN, Palermo, Roma, ATH (C/S Olympic), Thesaloniki, Prague, BUD, BUH (C/S RO), Sofia, Bratislava, VIE, Belgrade, Zaragoza, Bilbao, Madrid, Casablanca (Joint opp - RAM), Tunis, Cairo, Luxor, Barcelona, Lisbon, Marseille, Ljubliana, Zagreb, Vilnius, Riga, Gothenburg, Amsterdam, Brussels, Antwerp, Maastrict, Dresden, Zurich, Geneva, Innsbruck, Malmo

some destinations served by regional subsiduaries.


Economy (most legroom on t/a flights - 777,767, A300, 757), ptv's

Business Class 'Galaxy' tm - business/first class with extra large personal t.v's/ seat pitch, modern space age interior. on 777's/767's (extra Galaxy capacity on Houston/Evening Departure 18:05 Newark flight).

euro_forum (tm) - on all A300's/757's, extra wide business class seats (even to Moscow,Athens, Copenhagen/Hamburg, Dahran, Kuwait)

europlus economy - on all european flights.

elipse business - on all elipse operated flights, leaves the middle seat free on european flights, provides a free limo for passengers to go to/from any airport served by them in Europe - surely a european first?

Colour Scheme - All white aircraft with light grey underbelly, dark navy tail with large stylised ae logo in white. very stylish.

If you want more info on this virutal airline/it's activities, a brochure showing our paint scheme,perhaps a timetable, send me an e-mail!

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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 6:13 pm

I would try to work for a large airline such as LH, BA, AF and so on. Starting with one or two planes with maybe 50 seats flying to destinations that offer enough pax. And if that works out I would try to grow out of that position which would be very hard in the market of today. But since my name isn't Sir Richard Branson I have to do it like that. Smile/happy/getting dizzy Maybe my airline would make it into the real market with the big ones in about 100 years of business... But if I would make it so far I would want to have a fleet of 737s/A320s for short-haul and a small plane for long-haul, maybe a 767-200 or so.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 7:49 pm

I'd start a modest operation out of Sydney and serve Melbourne, Brisbane, Canberra and Adelaide with a fleet of ERJ regional jets with the object of fast turn around times and high frequency with less seats. An Erj can deplane in far less time than a 737 or anything larger and thereby making turn around faster.
If sucessful the Erjs would be replaced on trunk routes with something like A319's or 717's but in 4 abreast seating like Midwest express offering standard fares but far more service than the majors. The Erj's would be used to expand the network to other destinations until more of the larger aircraft become available.
After a year Qantas would buy me out and the airline would disappear.
I remember when the DC-3 was new!
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 8:34 pm

Just set me up with a hanger and a couple Cessna 206's and/or a couple of 207's
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:06 pm

Let me think

Naturally my airline will be based at BRS (Bristol International) and i would have priority over other airlines at one space on the apron outside the terminal building, the rest of my aircraft will be parked outside the old terminal building with the BA and Maersk short haul stuff.

So here is the specs:

Dan-air (rejuvinated)
Base: Bristol Lulsgate
Alliances:Maybe later

6 Fokker 50's
5 Dornier 328 Jet's
1 Boeing 767-300ER
2 Airbus A321-100
London Heathrow(LHR)3xDaily
London Gatwick(LGW)3xDaily
Amsterdam(AMS)4xDaily - Codeshare with KLM Cityhopper
Glasgow Prestwick(PIK)3xDaily
Aberdeen Dyce(ABZ)2xDaily
New York(JFK)2xWeekly
Madrid Barajas(MAD)4xWeekly
Palma de Mallorca (- Son San Juan)(PMI)3xWeekly

EGGD  Smile


RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 03, 2001 9:40 pm

85 million? Ok. Lease a couple MD80s, and start flying out of Indianapolis. Only vacation and elderly people regions like TPA, PHX, MSY. Charge low fares (no food, no movies, southwest style) so that the mid-westerner can afford to visit their aging parents in that home in Sarasota, or take that wild vacation to New Orleans. Add MKE if the previous is succesful and start connecting other mid-western cities through Indianapolis to those vacation/elderly destinations. No intl. destinations if I want to make money. Just can't compete with those subsidized foreign carriers.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Mon Jun 04, 2001 5:03 am

As far as gate assignments go, I would take an area on the commuter ramp and have all of the passengers deplane airside. That way, they can pick up their luggage after they exit the airstairs, and they can take a covered, portable walkway designed by the airline to the door. No hassle, no wait. Just get your luggage and go.  Big thumbs up
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Mon Jun 04, 2001 5:42 am

My idea for a startup would be similar to what RootsAir WAS aiming for in a business airline, but it would be with a smaller aircraft and much more realistic - a fleet of ten A319 in a one-class 112 seat layout. The airline would fly out of YHM (Hamilton, ON). Costs would be much lower than AC.
Flights out of YHM to LAX, SFO, JFK, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Halifax and St. Johns with a daily continuing flight to STN (London Stansted) daily (yes the A319 can do this!). Also a feeder service using 328JET would be used, from places such as Rochester, Syracuse, London, Windsor and Kingston.

Eventually if expanded, it would acquire more A319 for domestic/transborder service and offer nonstop flights to Europe with a 767-200.

I made this idea up for my grade 12 Entreprenurial Studies class...that was about 5 years ago  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Mon Jun 04, 2001 9:22 am

I guess I would also like to get a small fleet of A380s for the summer and fill them with like 700 seats and do:



than over the winters, lease the planes to other carriers but fly north south routes from JFK to MIA, FLL, CUN, etc....

everything very cheap with just the aim of getting you there.

we would call the airline Smile  Smile
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:52 am

Airline name: AustralisWings

Fleet: 4 RJ 80
3 Canadair RJ200

Base: Melbourne-Moorabbin Airport ( MelbourneSouth )

Network: Melb-Mor. - Adelaide
- Sydney
- Canberra
- Hobart
- Albury-Brisbane

These are the start up destination, aimed at tapping into the large southern melbourne region, without having to deal with Melbourne-tullamarine.

Colour scheme: Gold/Blue/white
Blue bottom with gold strip at top, white body AustralisWings in large type, Australis in blue wings in gold colouring. Tail is blue ith company logo, the hawk in gold colouing.

But with the industry in australia how it is i dont think this will occur even with $85 mil.

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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:53 pm

Base: NCL
Name: NE Airways
Fleet: 2 CRJ-200LRs
3 RJ85
2 B737-700
1 B767-300ER
NCL-ZRH CRJ 3 Daily codeshare with Swissair
NCL-FRA RJ85 3 Daily codeshare with Lufthansa
NCL-CDG RJ85 3 Daily
NCL-BCN 737 2 Daily
NCL-SVG 737 1 Daily
NCL-OSL 737 1 Daily
NCL-JFK 763 1 Daily codeshare with United Airlines
Plans to buy 2 more 737s and 3 CRJ-200LRs with another 763 on lease.
NCL-MAD 737 Daily x 1
NCL-LIN 737 Daily x 1
NCL-VIE CRJ Daily x 2 codeshare with Lauda Air
NCL-MUC CRJ Daily x 3 codeshare with Lufthansa
NCL-ORD 763 Daily x 1 codeshare with United Airlines.
Last CRJ used as standby a/c.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
Posts: 430
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:19 pm

I would start with several CRJ-200 or 700 series and fly on the west coast of the US. SFO, LAX would be the hubs with spokes to Salem, Redmond, Pasco, Bakersfield, Stockton and Long beach, Reno, Las Vegas, Fresno etc

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 3:45 pm

My airline would have like 2 717's and 4 EMB 145's and be based in SNA.
SNA-LAS 2x daily
SNA-San Diego 2x daily
SNA-LAX 2x daily
SNA-Tuscon once every other day
SNA-San Franciso 2x daily
SNA-Oakland 2x daily
Orange Air or Orange County Air

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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 3:51 pm

WHat you described, wasn't that ATA before it moved its hub to MDW?
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 8:18 pm

just my newest opinion (i got more, but one will do).

Base : DAL

Aircraft: 2 CRJ-200/ERJ-145 out fitted with either 46 or 47 seats (depending which country wants to break a law first). Adding one aircraft every other month or so.

Destinations: Hight Density major business centers (like F9) (LAX, DCA, ORD, LGA, MEX, primary)

Food: Not just soda and peanuts, real food served by flight attendants who are HAPPY (yes training costs will be higher, but what the hey, i want people who want to work for me).

Good Pay (most positions will be $7/hr or higher) with great benefits (i want quality, i will pay for quality).

I will get around the wrong admentment, and fly to cities that southwest cannot offer non-stop or doesn't fly to.

not that anyone cares...

Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 8:58 pm

-Kansas Midwestern Airlines
Base-Wichita, Kansas. Wichita has had very high airfares and is trying to get a low fare airline in the city.
Fleet-Dornier 328Jet(Shuttle), CRJ
Services and Amenites-Seats are leather with adjustable headrests and a 32" pitch on the CRJ. Meals on short flights consist of peanuts or pretzels. Sub sandwiches are served on the longer flights. There will only be beverages on the shuttle.
Training-There will be higher pay and we will be committed to keeping our employees happy. Training will be better for safety and to make our crews better.
Routes and Fares
ICT-MCI 4xDaily D328J $49
ICT-LAS Daily CRJ $99
ICT-SEA XSat./Sun. CRJ $149
ICT-ORD Daily CRJ $99
ICT-DFW Daily CRJ $99
ICT-MDW Daily CRJ $75
ICT-SFB(Orlando Sanford) Sat/Sun CRJ $125
ICT-EWR Daily CRJ $149

Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
Posts: 2064
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 11:02 pm

SFO-OAK 20x daily
SFO-SJC 20X daily
OAK-SJC 20x daily
all are return.
all on Pilatus P-12 (or perhaps an A316  Smile)
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sat Jun 16, 2001 11:59 pm

Name: TransMinneapolis Airlines
Domociles: Minneapolis/St. Paul
Fleet: Boeing 737-200Adv,Boeing 737-300

Chicago,IL (Midway)
Des Moines,IA
Grand Forks,ND
Kansas City,MO
Little Rock,AR

Main objective: To break up the stronghold Northwest has on the northern US. To also serve the underserved cities of the north.

Furture objective: To eventually add Phoenix-Sky harbor as a domocile (Can't forget about home!) with flights to the surrounding major cities.

Future fleet outlook:Orders for Boeing 737-6/7/800's. Possibly a small order for Airbus A319's.


RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:07 am

Name of the airline: Aerolineas del Sur
Main hubs: Santiago (SCL) and Concepcion(CCP),Chile.
Fleet: A319(10),A320(10),A321(8),A330(5)

The inaugural flight would depart Santiago heading for Concepcion in an A320.Then, the domestic network would develop through Arica,Iquique,Antofagasta,La Serena,Osorno,Puerto Montt,Coyhaique and Punta Arenas. The first international flight would be SCL-EZE (3x).Then the international network would develop in the following way:

Departing Santiago (SCL)

SCL-EZE (4x) A320
SCL-COR (2x) A320
SCL-MEN (2x) A320
SCL-GRU (3x) A321
SCL-LIM (2x) A321
SCL-RIO (1x) A321
SCL-LPB (1x)A320
SCL-MIA (2x) A330
SCL-JFK (1x)A330
SCL-MAD (1x)A330

Departing Concepcion (CCP)

CCP-EZE (2x) A319
CCP-COR (1x) A319
CCP-GRU (1x) A320
CCP-MIA (4 per week) A330

We also would try to enter into an alliance, and it should be Star as LanChile is already in Oneworld

Good night....good flight

Airbus Lover
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:55 am

I realized Malaysia Airlines is playing a monopoly in its domestic service. I would love to launch a new low-fare carrier in Malaysia based in Kuala Lumpur and Penang- both of the nations' biggest cities. Since those Malaysians think props are bloddy old lousy planes, I will use regional jets although I think ATR 42 works out just fine. Before leasing planes, decision and research will be done thoroughly to find a suitable plane, maybe B717 might work? B736? A318?

With my fleet of maybe 2 planes at startup, I will fly the always-full KUL-PEN and vice versa routes. Soon will expand to like Langkawi, the tropical island (tourist destination). Singapore may also be on top of the list. Medan, Indonesia also one as there are lots of Indonesian in KUL and PEN. When flights in Peninsular Malaysia are successful, I might wanna consider some in Borneo with increment of no. of planes.

When domestic market is a success, regional market comes in sight. Since regional jets are used for domestic flights, maybe a B737-700 will be leased for flights to Bangkok, Jakarta, Surabaya, Ho Chi Minh City, Hong Kong and some CHinese mainland places. B73G is chosen because MH can do the maintainance for use since they have a large fleet of B734.

Bare in mind all service are low-fare basis. but with two-class config.

If all these are successful and have good cash flow, then I might want to lease B767 or A330 for further expansion. A332 is recommended and configured with excellent comfort of 3 class config. probably 34-36" seat pitch in Y-class and the whole plane will sit around 220-230 pax. THe cargo spaces will be used to carry freight. Destinations in Australia will be on the top of the list. I will offer attractive terms to airlines in europe for code-share on flights to Oceania.

The airline will be named Sunflower Airways. During startup, simple livery will be introduced to half of the fleet with maybe the title Sunflower Air and the rest of the fleet will be painted in beautiful scenery of sunflowers with the title. THis will improved the image of my airline to public. When they see any planes with sunflower, they know it's SUnflower Air. If the airline is making money, the whole fleet will be painted in various beautiful sunflower scenery. Maybe in the tails.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:37 am

Name: Cirrusplex Airlines
Fleet: RJ115 (20), 727-200 (5), DC-10-30 (5), 727-200s and DC-10-30s planes will later be replaced with A320s, 777-200s, and 777-300s

From Indianapolis (or Peotone, IL if built) each destination is gradually added later in approx position:
Chicago ORD/CGX (goes great with Daley's morning coffee)
St. Louis
New York (LGA)
Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW, DAL, Meacham)
Orlando (Int'l)
San Francisco
Orange County, CA
Los Angeles (Int'l)
Both Portlands
Bangor, Maine
San Antonio
Las Vegas
Aspen, Co
London (LHR)
Paris (De Gaulle)
Osaka (Kansai)
Tokyo (Narita)
Hong Kong
and others

Okay, I think I might have blown $85 Million
I don't know, so this is my signature.

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 17, 2001 8:16 pm

LV- Might have been. I don't know anything about the history of ATA. Just seemed to me that Midwest to FL flights have always been profitable, and IND would seem like an agreable place to start up such flights. Out of curiosity, do you happen to know the reasons behind ATA's move to MDW?
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Sun Jun 17, 2001 10:11 pm

Cant be bothered thinking about it, even if I won money I would just buy a villa in the carribean and enjoy it instead of throwing it away on airlines, that's for other people to do!!

Pioneer Airlines? - Legend 2

Mon Jun 18, 2001 2:23 pm

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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: Pioneer Airlines? - Legend 2

Mon Jun 18, 2001 2:28 pm

some of you guys are way out of perportion. You do not start an airline with 40 new airbus's (some of which are widebodies). that many billions of dollars worth of planes.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:55 am

The Airline: Brightstar Airways
Motto: Fly Smarter, Fly Brightstar
Base: ATL
Aircraft: A340 A330
Description of Airline:
America's answer to Virgin Atlantic. Providing transatlantic and transpacific flights at a good price. We will bring a higher class of service to the masses but at a price that won't break the bank.
Half and half color scheme, silver (not bare metal) on the upper half, dark blue on the lower half. The tail would be the same blue as the belly. The logo (a white star) would be on the tail, and in a smaller form along side the titles on the front of the aircraft.
From ATL:
Sydney (tech stop in Honolulu)
Aukland (tech stop in Honolulu)
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

Dear Defunctairline:

Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:31 am

Pioneer is not Legend.

Legend had a flawed business plan from day one...1st class at full coach fare.

My business model was, simply put, to out-Southwest Southwest.

You say AA is the threat to Pioneer. I say AA is not even in the picture. They do not fly to Olathe, Kansas or West Memphis, Arkansas. They do not attempt to go head to head with Southwest in the Dallas Love to Houston Hobby sweepstakes.

Southwest is a great airline and all that. But you know, they are also a 30 year old airline. And some of their employees are paid at 30 yr seniority type wages.

In addition, it has grown so big that the company has had to create a pretty big infrastructure. Thus the nimbleness and agility and ability to shift assets and resources and do things efficiently is not always as good as it used to be (don't misunerstand me, it's still pretty good).

Think of Pioneer as MuseAir without the up-front stupidity and revenge motive.

And to the gentlemen a few posts ago who was gonna fly CRJs in and out of ICT.....interesting concept, and God knows I love low fares...but the fares you are quoting won't allow you to even break even with the ASM costs on those RJs. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. But that's the way it is.
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:43 am

Try this one on for size:

"Liberty Airlines." Low-fare carrier based at BWI, using 737-700's.

Business plan: draw from huge O&D base and serve markets ignored by Southwest, plus shared Florida markets. BWI isn't at near its profit potential, and if Southwest wants to make people in non-WN markets drive, fly right to those markets and create a new profit maker.

The airline should have at least $150 million capitalization at day one or it should not be done.

First Two Years Route Structure: basic NE/ MW markets ignored by WN, and key Florida markets. And just a touch of West Coast. Fares between $44-99 one way. To West coast, $99-249 one way.

ROC 3x daily
SYR 3x daily
Newburgh/Stewart 3x daily
CVG 3x daily
DAY 3x daily
MCO 5x daily
FLL 4x daily
TPA 4x daily
BUR 1x daily redeye and 1x daily daytime, if psycho-NIMBYs can be overcome. Otherwise ONT.
OAK 1x daily redeye, then 1x daily daytime.

Then in third and fourth years if conditions allow, move into feeding from south into north. And some more WEst coast and Florida.

Columbia SC 3x daily
CLT 3x daily
GSO 3x daily
RIC 3x daily.
TTN 4x daily
Worcester MA, or better yet Hanscom if psycho-NIMBYS can be overcome
TYS 2x-3x daily
SAN 2x daily
SEA 2x daily
DEN or COS 2x daily
RSW 3x daily

Frequencies added as needed.

IF Southwest wants to buy the airline and add all the cities to its route map, all the better. But there's a big profit machine out there still untapped in low-fare service based in the Nation's Capital region, the second-largest population base in the NE.


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am


Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:57 am

Pioneer Airlines as described seems to me an excellent proposal. I confess to feeling some deja wine during peak-hour flights? Thomas Petzinger in Hard Landing: "At one time in the early 1970's, Southwest Airlines was the biggest distributor of (I forget brand) liquor in the state of Texas." It worked before, didn't it? ;+) think $85 million would do it? I proposed at least $150 million for Liberty, taking JetBlue's start-up cash figure and adding a little for inflation. Figure that there are always unpredictable factors. And that's without the infamous aviation-related corruption in Texas ("Wrong Amendment, etc). Look at how much $$ Legend had to spend fighting off Anticompetitive Airlines, and that's after deregulation. (Of course Legend had a bad business plan too, but the court costs didn't help).

Olathe KS, is that the Johnson County industrial airport? Back when I was a student at KU, I would have enjoyed not having to drive all the way to MCI. Air service in Johnson County would be welcomed by folks in Lawrence and Topeka.

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:24 am

Well my idea isn't that original. I would essentially copy what Jet Blue is doing but instead of their decision to have a hub at Long Beach, I would have it at Ontario because there are no flight restrictions, there is room for expansion and the area that surrounds it is projected to grow greatly. The concept would be to offer East Coast and other long distance flights from Ontario, making it a convenient alternative to LAX. Since Southwest has a dominant position at the airport I would not challenge WN in short haul flights because I think my airline would fail. I think the fleet would likely be 737-700's at first. The first few cities:


in a few years if this airline proved successful then maybe international flights could begin with 767/777's to: NRT, LGW, CDG, etc
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TxAgKuwait, And My Airline

Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:34 am

Wouldn't you be serving Kansas City instead of Olathe? Olathe is part of Kansas City, plus OJC doesn't have the runway length, or space for even a single 717. MCI, on the other hand, does. Just wondering!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Anyway, here's my airline.

Trans Midwestern Airways-
Headquarters:Wichita, Kansas (I don't live in Wichita, but my grandma who lives near Wichita has complained about the fare prices, and it is obvious they need a low fare airline in Wichita).
4-Boeing 717 (3 leased)
Kansas City (MCI)-3x daily
Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW)-2x daily
Chicago Midway (MDW)-2x daily
Los Angeles (LAX)-2x daily
Proposed routes: Houston Intercontinental (IAH)-1x daily, Atlanta HArtsfield (ATL)-2x daily
Fleet Proposals: 10 year plan, 5 717-200s, and 2 717-100s (should they be launched)
Fare type: no frills-low fare

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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:40 am

Name: Northern Pacific
Base: Los Angeles, California (LAX)
Fleet: (after 1 year) six (6) B777-200LRs
-Tokyo Narita (NRT) 1xDaily
-Sydney (SYD) 1xDaily
-Hong Kong (HKG) 1xDaily

Seating would be in 3 classes.
There would be 10 SkyCabins in the front section of the plane.
Business Class would have a recline of 180 degrees and be in 2x2!2x2 configuration with 20in. wide seats.
Economy would be 3x4x3 with 17in. wide seats and 34in pitch.
All seats will have a PTV, with Connexion by Boeing, and Playstation 2. My airline would be based off Virgin Atlantic but would of course be better.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:54 am

Main Hub - GSO (Expanded North Concourse)

Flights to:
Nasheville, Saint Louis, Denver, Roanoke, Richmond, Savannah, Charleston, Columbus OH, Montreal CA, Indianapolis, Louisville, Harrisburg, Wilmington, DE.

All these are to citied close to big areas that have higher fairs to get to each other.

All equipment would be BAe Avro ARJ.

Call it Triad Airways....
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:54 am

...I wouldn't be posting on
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RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:40 am

With $85 million most of these airlines could even get off the ground. Buying A380's??, u probaly couldnt even lease them with that money. Even so flying out of JFK on an international flight, yeah right! You wouldnt get the slots. And flying to London or Tokyo Narita, you would most likey get pummeled by the incumbent major carriers, if you ever got gates or landing slots. If this is going to be realistic try starting an airline that will actually survive.
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AeroGlobe: Re Olathe KS

Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:06 am

If I am not mistaken....the Century City Airport in the Olathe area can accomodate a 717. I believe I've seen a 727 come out of there.

Second, yes, I meant Olathe instead of MCI. Why? you might ask.

The money ie the folks that fly in the greater Kansas City metro area...well, most of 'em live in Southern Johnson County.

That's in Kansas, not Missouri.

It's about a 45 min to 1 hr drive from there to MCI. Olathe? Well, Olathe is right there.

In addition, there is the little thing called the Wright Amendment, even though it is wrong. If you fly from Kansas City, Kansas (or Olathe) you can go nonstop in to Dallas Love Field, no questions asked.

You can't do that from MCI.

Same deal with West Memphis, Arkansas...although unfortunately that doesn't have the luxury (as does Olathe, LS) of being the high rent district. However, downtown Memphis is about 10 mins away on the interstate...just on the other side of the river.

If you have the specs of the airport(s) in Olathe I'd like to know what they are. I know AWM has a 6000x100 runway and will accomodate a 737 (or 717). the big problem at AWM is the terminal building. It being Arkansas, we can probably get away with using a couple of double wides....

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:06 pm

CRJ's based in PIA. Have about 4-5 aircraft with flights coming into to PIA from MLI, SPI, CMI and RFD then on to LGA, DCA, ATL and DFW. Return, repeat. "Business Class" product with coach seating at regular coach prices. Discounts for advance purchase (7 or 14 days)
and weekends. Future markets would be DEC, BRL, PHL and BOS. Repeat formula in CAE with incoming from GSP, CHS, MYR and SAV up to LGA, DCA, PHL, BOS. ATL, JAX, MDW, DET to follow. This formula could be applied all over the Eastern half of the country, slots permitting. Small hubs feeding small markets to major markets with small planes. Eventually be "forced" to join an alliance Smile
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 9:43 pm

RE: If You Were To Start A Realistic Airline.....

Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:37 pm

I would start off with the B737-300s, flying within Europe like Go-fly. Then eventually I would start expanding the fleet to A320s and A319s.

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