Guest

Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Tue Jun 05, 2001 6:41 pm

Delta Air Lines and Air France suspended their flights to Tel-Aviv following the barbaric Palestinian bomb attack against a seafront promenade disco that killed 20 Israeli teenagers. The two airlines explained their decision on "security concerns". To behave so cowardly is astonishing for huge companies, and should make passengers to Israel think twice before choosing an airline...Delta finally chartered an El-Al plane to fly its passengers to New York. I hope that all these passengers, and many more, will directly choose El-Al for their next flight to Israel.
El-Al is ALWAYS flying, even in times of war. It's been many times the only possibility left for thousands of non-Israelis to leave the country in times of crisis.

My fear is that actual security concerns my arise in the near future: the Palestinian Authority is in possession of several anti-aircraft missiles. Ben-Gurion Airport is located only 2500 meters from the old Israel-Jordan cease-fire line, and planes landing there have often to fly over PA self-ruled territories.
 
ryanb741
Posts: 5058
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 6:36 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Tue Jun 05, 2001 6:57 pm

I must admit that El Al has an absolutely astonishing safety record considering the situation in which it operates. They can teach a lot of the other carriers around the world a thing or two about airline safety.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
airmale
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RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Tue Jun 05, 2001 7:07 pm

I feel some airlines are actually going to quit flying to Israel in the near future, tragic what happened to the teen agers, may they rest in peace-ameen.
.....up there with the best!
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Tue Jun 05, 2001 10:29 pm

Thank you airmale, i also wish condolences to their families.

About AA missiles from PA territory. toda,Reisinger, you don't really believe that do you? The worldwide condemnation, the harsh and immediate reprisal from IDF... I can;t imagine anything of that sorts taking place, what with the very recent calming down (Hamas ceasefire etc..) Whats your take?

Yeah, Ryan, your right, El Al has really been fortunate to have held up so well for so many years, but security is culture at that airline. For obvious reasons, it is inherrent in everything they do and how they do it. Israel is determined that its flag carrier will fly on despite any adversity she may face. A daunting, but apparently doable prospect.

Airmale, which airlines might cease flying to Israel? I don't agree with your assessment. In Israel's 50 year history, this is not the worst or most violent of times, so in precedent little should happen. Surprising though that DL initiated service when they did. If any airline do quit I would think Royal Jordanian and EgyptAir would be the first to go as a protest for their governments accusations of military improproety in Israel. Absent a real war with Syria (would never happen without aid from surrounding Arab states), I don't forsee any Israeli service cancellations.

rgds
russ
 
RIX
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RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:14 am

"The worldwide condemnation" - well, I'm quite afraid Israel will be again "equally responsible" - the same as for everything that happened before. And "worldwide condemned" when trying to prevent it by force - the same as now...
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 2:39 am

RIX has understood the sad reality that most people haven't yet, at least outside Israel.

But TWAneedsNohelp hasn't. I see you haven't been recently to Israel. It's very easy to write that it's not the worse or most violent of times when you are living in one of the most exciting city of the world, far far away from Jerusalem, Tel Aviv or Netanya. I can tell you, it is one of the worst time in the history of Israel. People are afraid to take busses or trains, to go to shopping malls (a favorite Israeli free-time occupation) or to the cinema, and now they fear even just to be in a "too" crowded street. The atmosphere is terrible these days in Israel: on the TV there are only reports from the bombing, from the burials of 20 so young victims, from the fate of their destroyed families.
Parents are worried as long as their children are out.
It is, indeed, one of the worst time in Israel. And that's precisely because it is one of the most violent too: there had never been so many and deadly attacks in Israel before the suicidal Oslo process.

Now to your missile theory...: what are you calling "the worldwide condemnation"???????????????? Why would the shooting of a civil airliner be more harshly condemned than a massacre of teen-agers in a disco?? There would be condemnations, but in which way would they help?! There would be first of all gigantic pressures ON Israel not to "retaliate"...or at least not to retaliate "too harshly", with "disproportionate means".
You are right to say Israel would retaliate, but then in the "worldwide" media you would only find reports on these retaliations (have you already forgotten the attack in Netanya 2 weeks ago and its aftermath?...)

BTW, the blowing up of civil airliners in the past has not cut the "worldwide" sympathy for the Palestinians.

When Oslo began 8 years ago, rightist politicians in Israel, including Arik Sharon, had warned: the situation in the territories will degenerate in a Lebanon-like mess; the Left explained that such a scenario was totally "impossible" because the "world" wouldn't accept that Arafat "returns" to terror and because the Israeli Army would retaliate so harshly to any attack that it would have a preventive effect on the Palestinians. All these brilliant explanations where bullshit, as the sad reality since then has showed.

And here's a last question for you, TWAneeds...: WHY is the Palestinian Authority investing such a great effort in order to acquire anti-aircrafts missiles??!! To play with them and shoot down birds in your opinion, I suppose?

Let me also remember you the Israeli attitude before the terrible Yom Kippur War in 1973. And at that time, the Arab armies were much weaker than today, equipped with soviet weapons and not American state-of-the-art technologies. And there was no Palestinian Authority neither, which could create tremendous problems for the smooth mobilisation of reservists in case of emergency; without reservists, there's no army in Israel!! (also not like in the States)
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 2:49 am

The security concerns are legitimate.

The truth is the airlines are not so concerned for the pax, but rather for the safety of their a/c and crew, who have to stay in Tel Aviv overnight or longer.

If their safety whilst in Tel Aviv cannot be guaranteed, the airlines will simply drop the route.

I spoke to my Travel Agent today, who told me BA were looking very closely at whether to pull out temporarily-why? Because their aircrew are at risk.

I really hope we can get some sort of peace here going-both sides need to change certain philosophies.

Rgds,
CP
 
GOT
Posts: 1843
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RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 3:50 am

Hope that piece will come to Israel and that the airlines will come back.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
A320-addict
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 1:24 am

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 5:41 am

Sabena, confirmed this afternoon that their daily TLV (night-)flight will continue, dispite the cancellation of other airlines' flights. After having contacted all possible
sources ( Belgian foreign affairs, BeCAA, .... , insurance companies) flight operations decided to continue the service.

Although crew members have been strongly advised to stay in the hotel, and it is even forbidden now to leave the area around the hotel.

My sympathy goes to all the people that have been hurt in this conflict, and the missing of a relative must be almost impossible to bear. BUT Toda, Reisinger, this is not a political forum, please post them somewhere else.... and besides sorry I have to say but you are far too subjective....
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 8:22 am

A320-Addict,

Thank you for trying to moderate the forum by telling toda,Reisinger that his post is too political, but really, who are you to say and untill you have your own internet chat forum, I think posts like his (which can be both relevant and irrelevant) will stay right where they are. Your concern for the quality of the Civil Aviation forum on Airliners.net is noted and appreciated.

toda,Reisinger,

Your post was a strong and effective argument for a reprisal to the Palestinians and now I am rethinking how I feel towards the situation. Thank you for your-first hand account.

rgds
russ
 
baec777
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Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:01 am

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:26 am

I think all carriers should suspend their Flights to ISRAEL including TWA, Continental, and other Canada's carrier, Air Canada... European carriers - British Airways, Austrian, Lufthansa, Atlas Air, FEDEX, Etc...

I am extremely scared that my mom's family in the West Bank may get hurt so badly by the Israelis' because I am also Palestinian, and I wants Yassar Arafat to stop the crisis in the middle east.... PLEASE HELP !!!!!


Baec777  Sad
 
A320-addict
Posts: 249
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RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 9:29 pm

Of course, TWA, you are perfectly right by telling, that
everyone can freely express his opinion on this forum.
BUT I think the question about who to blame in this conflict is still not relevent to the topic or this forum....

( Been several times to TLV, and going back next week, so I do care about what is going on.... but still.... maybe we should start an other topic to discuss this. But then this will not be relevant at all to this forum.)

Thanks for all the posts
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Wed Jun 06, 2001 10:11 pm

baec777,

As you may be aware, TWA has already ended service to TLV, not because of the intifada, but rather because of circumstances involved in the airline's Chapter 11 proceedings.

 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Back To TEL-AVIV

Thu Jun 07, 2001 3:40 pm

I think Delta should make some public relations studies before speaking: one of their senior executives said yesterday that "he could not promise that the sudden stoppage of flights(as it happened after the terrible bomb attack in TLV)would not happen again"!!
Such a statement is rather a good (and cheap) marketing operation for...El-Al