GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 10:44 pm

Hello guys,
Pls take a look at the picture below. I'm a little unsure whether it's taking off or landing as the flaps don't look very clear at that angle. I'm thinking it could be taking off by looking at the engine exhausts. It most likely wouldn't be landing as it's engines would be idle (no engine exhausts) and it's a little too high a flare angle.
Then again, is that the threeshold/touchdown point I see a little behind and below the aircraft?
Please help me out on this one. Thanks in advance.


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Andrew Hunt

 
Boeing Nut
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 10:53 pm

Hmmmm ..... tough call. The markings look like 500 ft distance markers. I was hoping they were touchdown zone markings. That would have made it easier. My quess is takeoff. The exhaust streams coming from the engines seems pretty concentrated. But that's just a quess.

My two cents!!!  Smile

Regards
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 10:55 pm

Thanks a lot for your prompt reply, Boeing nut. Please do keep the messages coming in.
 
LUFC
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:00 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:09 pm

Trailing edge slats configured for take off. If it's landing it must be doing about 280mph to be still flying.
 
Guest

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:14 pm

I think landing because if you look at the flaps in relation to the wing you can sort of visually tell that they are down more than 5 or 10 degrees. most planes takeoff with 5 or 10 degrees of flaps. Also if you look at the elevator it it up quite a bit for takeoff. When planes land they are going pretty slow compared to there takeoff speed so they need more control input to move the plane. Unless he is doing a really slow takeoff I think he is landing. Also the sise of the plane would require it to rotate past the 500 foot marks. Hope this long and boring message helps
 
AI744LR
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri May 11, 2001 6:14 am

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:16 pm

The key here is the position of the flaps. Looks to me like they are positioned for take off and not landing.

Cheers  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
AC_B777
Posts: 728
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:17 pm

The flaps seem to be set for takeoff and like Boeingnut stated, the exhaust looks like it is at a higher power.
Also, the nose angle seems high for an A340 landing. I may be wrong. Just my guess.

AC_B777
In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
 
LUFC
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 8:00 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:25 pm

There's no ifs and buts about this. THIS PLANE IS TAKING OFF !!!
 
flyordie
Posts: 50
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2001 5:40 am

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Fri Jun 08, 2001 11:42 pm

I agree with LUFC and everyone else who says landing! There are a few facts supporting this conclusion:
1) Flare seems too high for landing.
2) Flaps are not fully extended.
3) And I think this should settle it; If you look closely, the plane appears to be situated between two runway markers - the dual 3 line behind it and dual 2 line in front of it. This means that the plane is approaching the end of the runway and has only a little over 1,000 feet of runway remaining in front of it. Therefore, if it was landing, we would have heard about it on the news!

Hope this helps GE

 
Red Panda
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 12:14 am

T/O

r panda
 
GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 12:33 am

Man! Look at all these replies!  Big thumbs up
Thanks a lot guys for giving your professional views on this picture. From what I gather, it appears the plane is taking off.

P.S. If you strongly feel that this A340 is landing and not taking off, and have sufficient evidence to prove it, pls do email me or post in this thread.

THANKS AGAIN GUYS!!!
THIS FORUM'S THE BEST!!!!!!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 7:33 am

Hi All,

I guess that I am the only one to properly answer the question posed. Not because I'm an avaition expert, but because I took the photo!

The answer is.........................................LANDING!

Regards

Andrew


Full frame always beats post processing
 
catpac
Posts: 226
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 9:20 am

definitely T/O,
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:27 am

Catpac,

Andy has just confirmed its landing. He took the photo.

 
GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:39 am

Wow, how surprising.  Wow!
Thanks, Andrew, for clearing it all up for us. It seems kinda strange to accept that from all our predictions, but we have to.

BTW Andrew, GREAT PHOTO!!!  Big thumbs up
 
catpac
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 6:24 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:43 am

sorry the reply must have been submitted at the same time cause I certainly haven't seen Andy's post....but quite frankly when I see a larger jet land whether its a 767/330/340/747 whatever, their flaps are in most cases almost perpendicular to it's wings i.e. large flap setting (30-40 degrees)

My apology,
 
GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 10:46 am

Yeah, it seemed rather strange to me too. This photo really looked like the A340 was taking-off.
Maybe the angle of the plane made it hard to judge the degree of flap accurately?
 
Max Q
Posts: 5695
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:01 am

LUFC, TRAILING EDGE SLATS ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
catpac
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 6:24 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:05 am

Here guys, look at this take-off, it "seems" like the same flap setting



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © PixAir



See ya
Mike
 
catpac
Posts: 226
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:09 am

Maybe the Changi landing was a really light one, hence a smaller flap angle was used,...or like GE says, it was just an angle that was hard to judge the flap settings...
 
Guest

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 11:18 am

It is absolutely take-off. Look at the flap postion, it;s in the 10-15 degree range, and the angle of the aircraft as well.

5-15 degree flap settings are used for takeoff, while when an aircraft is flaring for touchdown flaps are usually at full.

As far as the angle of the aircraft's pitch-
At the pitch the aircraft is at, it would have to be doing a great deal of speed in order to not have a hard landing. At that flap setting, she'd settle onto the runway quite hard, especially at low (150-170 kts) landing speeds. I'd say she's taking off.

But I could be wrong.  Smile

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic

 
Spaceman
Posts: 525
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 1:22 pm

This plane is taking off and flying away falks. If it is landing the thrust reversers would have been applied. The plane should have 2 reverser engaged if it's landing!
 
Singapore 777
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 1:28 pm

I have seen A340s taking off with flap settings closer to landing ones. They probably needs lots of flaps to get off the ground.
 
Guest

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 1:39 pm

As Andrew confirmed the plane is landing. If you dont belive him look at the runway, it is obvious the aircraft is just past the touchdown markers(two large white squares).
 
hkgspotter1
Posts: 5750
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 1:41 pm

Spaceman, Its landing OK. You put the reverser's out on landing not in the air. well most of the time !!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 1:43 pm

On the 744 we take off using Flaps20. We sometimes land using Flaps25. There is not a lot of difference, especially not in a photo.
 
SIA_B777
Posts: 467
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 2:25 pm

no offense but why are you still arguing if the photographer has said it was a landing?
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 2:32 pm

huh? I'm not! There are people who still do not believe, citing the flaps as evidence. I'm just saying there might not be a lot of difference in TO and landing flaps.
 
User avatar
Bruce
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 2:53 pm

Hi Folks,

My opinion is Landing. Look at the wheels bogeys.

I have seen a million planes land and see the wheels in that wierd position with the rearward wheel in the bogey lower than the front. The boeing 757 and 767 wheels look like that too.

Kind of resembles an Eagle's Talons as the eagle swoops down to land on a branch  Big grin

Wheels are in position to kiss the pavement!
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Guest

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 3:15 pm

I know it is landing but... if that A340 was taking off the bogies would still tilt, thye do not only tilt on landing.
 
KAZ
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2001 9:57 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 5:12 pm

If you enlarge the picture you will see that the flap settings are at about 30 degrees. The small picture gives you the impression that they are configured for take off.

THIS CX A340 IS LANDING.
 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 5:21 pm

Suppose I better post it up again. The A340 is landing. I took the photo!

I don't know what else to say! I guess the easiest would be to check the CX schedule. They only fly the A340 into SIN twice a week, on a Sunday and I'm not suer of the other day. It arrives as CX735 at 1715 and returns after dark. Now unless I happen to own a very large flash (and I wish I did)........................................you get the point.

And thanks GE for the nice comment on the photo!

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sat Jun 09, 2001 8:27 pm

Hi again guys,
Firstly, thanks a lot for keeping this topic alive. It's really great that so much can be commented about this photo.
Perhaps some people mistook the A340's flaps to be in take-off setting, but as I stated, the angle of the plane makes it hard to judge the flap setting correctly, and we're unsure about the weight of the plane.
As for the pitch of the plane, well, we're unsure of the weight, so nothing can be commented for that.

Finally, we've all got to accept the fact that
THIS A340 IS LANDING

Thanks guys for this wonderful forum.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Yet another picture of this beautiful bird...

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Craig Murray


 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 1:58 am

i m neutral....hehe

but if it is landing, it is fine to flare at that angle when there is strong wind ahead or the weight and various causes.
 
Beefmoney
Posts: 1066
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 2:16 am

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 6:28 am

I believe hes landing because (I may be wrong) it looks like the VASI lights are just to the left of the plane indicating hes at the near end of the runway. My guess.
Michael Hawkins
 
SIA_B777
Posts: 467
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 6:33 am

Andy that is a very nice photo. What camera did you use?
 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:06 am

Fuji S1 Pro. Digital SLR.

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
A330-243
Posts: 250
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:09 am

That A340 is taking off. Yes, its definetly on takeoff.


HA HA HA !!! Just kidding. Reading this thread made me laugh. I guess no one thought the person responsible for the photo would reply to the topic.

Andy, I enjoy viewing your photos. Especially you're A340 collection. Well done.  Big thumbs up
 
GE
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:49 am

Keep the photos coming in, Andrew!  Big thumbs up
 
andyhunt
Crew
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 10:50 pm

RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:52 am

I'm trying but the upload queue is getting fairly long these days! Johan's site is getting popular.

Andrew
Full frame always beats post processing
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2537
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RE: CX A340 Photo:Taking Off Or Landing?

Sun Jun 10, 2001 9:46 am

Just to reiterate some of what's already been said;
If you thought the plane was taking-off, look to the left of it...
You can see the VASIs that give pilots visual glideslope information just off to it's left. You can see they're pointing towards the end of the runway the A340 has just come from. VASIs always point towards the closest threshold, so either the A340 has made a very short takeoff (<1000ft!) or it's landing!!!

Even at landing engines are still producing thrust, you don't need full flaps for landing, and there are no runway distance-to-go markers in the photo. There are TDZ markers - but the plane is right over them, again, landing.

Anyway, Andy has confirmed it.

Rgds
CROSSWIND
 
Skystar
Posts: 1339
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RE: Landing Absolutely!

Sun Jun 10, 2001 3:00 pm

I don't know how anybody can look at the flaps on the A340 and say that it is a takeoff.

They are quite clearly fully deployed - you look at the angle, the edge is right on the bottom of the belly. If you look at the climbing A340, it is clearly a different flap angle, as the trailing edge of the flap is only half way down the belly. The flaps on the 330/340 aren't that big, but flaps on the 320 series aren't either. The key to allowing the A340 to land at relatively low speeds is its wing design, including the relatively low sweepback angle.

The A340 has a very high flaring angle relative to other aircraft, I had the pleasure of a jumpseat landing into FRA, and our touchdown pitch was about 8°

Notice how there are 3 boxes to the left of the CX340 - VASIS, again pointing to a landing. If you argued that they were on the other end of the runway, well that's incorrect, because look at the direction that the boxes are facing.

I remember having a similar discussion over an LH340.

Finally, you have the photographer confirming that it was landing.

Cheers,

Jusitn

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