Guest

Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 1:35 pm

Which airline has the best safety record for a major operating airline?
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 1:44 pm

Qantas.
Dear moderators: No.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:06 pm

wasn't it ElAl?
I wish I were flying
 
Guest

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:07 pm

Incorrect,

If I remeber correctly the order of the top 3 is:

1. Air Canada
2. Ansett Australia
3. Qantas

Can anyone verify?
 
Ryefly
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:56 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 2:22 pm

You can look at the airline report card stats on air safety online. It lets you knowthe airlines rate, events, flights and grade.

< http://www.airsafetyonline.com/safetycenter/reportcard.shtml>

P.S. Whats the deal with Midwest Express getting a "D"? I was kind of surprised by that.
 
Guest

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 3:44 pm

Cathay Pacific has the bets safety record.
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 3:47 pm

Well it isn't Qantas after the Bangkok accident and it certainly isn't El Al (remember Amsterdam and a certain 747 crash?).

This is an unanswerable question - as Iwrite every time it comes up.

Just as Concorde was thought to be the safest aircraft until last July (it wasn't, until then one hadn't crashed but there had been many safety incidents), it is statistically now relatively unsafe on the basis of percentage of airframe losses.

You have to define this question in terms of:

Loss of life
non fatal injuries
airframe loss
major airframe damage
minor airframe damage.

An airline might injure a few dozen passengers one year, according to the statistics (but they may all be hurt in one turbulence incident) and that- until then - very safe airline slips down the ratings.

Had the Qantas 747 at Bangkok carried on a few yards further at a somewhat faster speed, there would have been deaths. The accident preserved the Qantas safety myth in the public mind and Qantas spent a fortune and bucked their insurer's decision to scrap the aircraft so that they could continue their record of not losing a jet hull. Yet the report slams the CRM and the company standards and training.
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1462
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 3:51 pm

P.S. Whats the deal with Midwest Express getting a "D"? I was kind of surprised by that.

All they look at is the number of accidents compared to the number of departures. Midwest Experss has only had one fatal accident, but they are a small and relatively young airline, so their "accident rate" is calculated to be higher than other carriers.
 
Guest

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 3:54 pm

This is an unanswerable question

It is an unanswerable question.

Besides the Concorde, we all think Singapore Airlines will never crash, because it's an excellent airline when it comes to Safety Records. But they crashed last year.
 
SJCguy
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2001 4:39 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 4:02 pm

Every airline is safest until they crash...but really I think Korean Air is the safest.  Smile Just jokin but really I bet it's SWA or Qantas.

SJCguy
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 9:52 pm

Air Canada, Qantas, CX, JAL, BA all have excellent safety record.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 10:07 pm

I bet it's not Airtran
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Mon Jun 11, 2001 10:15 pm

On a rate per million flights basis, from best to tenth best:

1. All Nippon
2. Delta
3. British Airways
4. Lufthansa
5. Northwest Airlines
6. United Airlines
7. American Airlines
8. USAirways
9. Continental
10. Air Canada

All of which have an accident rate of less than 0.65 per million departures.

For the above sample, I only included airlines that have logged at least 2 million departures.

At the other end of the spectrum is Cubana, with a rate of 24.0 per million.

Cheers,

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Tue Jun 12, 2001 2:37 am

Hey, cfalk....

Looking at carriers with >2.0 Million departures since 1970....

the following carriers are the only ones to have reported zero fatal accidents:

Southwest 9.5 Million departures
SAS 5.4 Million departures
Ansett 2.52 Million departures
America West 2.3 Million departures
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Tue Jun 12, 2001 2:44 am

Tx,

Right you are.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Tue Jun 12, 2001 2:57 am

Qantas for sure!

Qantas has never involved in any accidents (Major ones).

Regards.
 
Andie007
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 5:15 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Tue Jun 12, 2001 3:07 am

In Europe LTU has on of the best safety record!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
wolfy
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2001 12:07 pm

: )

Wed Jun 13, 2001 4:33 pm

Air Canada! :P
 
v jet
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 9:04 am

RE: PhilB

Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:32 pm

" The accident preserved the Qantas safety myth in the public mind and Qantas spent a fortune and bucked their insurer's decision to scrap the aircraft so that they could continue their record of not losing a jet hull."

Can you provide proof of that statement?
 
Mac
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 11:56 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:37 pm

Southwest Airlines has one of the best safety records if not the best. However, I don't know if Southwest would be catagorized as one of the industries major airlines compared with Quantas, United, El Al and the rest.
 
airways
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Wed Jun 13, 2001 7:32 pm

What about Air China? They have never been involved in a major accident, as far as I know.

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Wed Jun 13, 2001 7:59 pm

I recalled that an old issue of First Class Magazine, International Airline Passenger Association (IAPA) listed that Aer Lingus has one of the best, if not best, safety record. Is that true?
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 1:28 am


You first have to find a common standard. Let´s take the top 50 airlines, by revenue passenger miles flown in 1999. Number of post war a/c losses:

VS - 0
EK - 0
TD - 1
HP - 1
WN - 1
GF - 2
QF - 2
SQ - 3
TP - 4
NZ - 4
BA - 5
CX - 5
LY - 5
MH - 6
SA - 7
AM - 7
AN - 7
OA - 8
US - 8
AC - 9
LH - 10
SK - 12
AS - 12
CO - 12
SR - 13
TG - 13
JL - 14
AZ - 15
CI - 16
MX - 16
MS - 16
CA - 17
NH - 17
KE - 17
AI - 18
SV - 18
DL - 18
SN - 19
TK - 19
KL - 22
NW - 24
PK - 27
VS - 31
GA - 31
AR - 32
AA - 34
UA - 41
TW - 42
IB - 43
AF - 78

(I included wholly owned subsidiaries, i.e. British Airtours for BA, Condor for LH etc.)

Hope this helps,

Daniel Smile
 
rw774477
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 4:15 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 2:20 am

ouch -AF really stands out

you list VS twice ?? once with 0 and then with 31 ????

Virgin ??

rw774477
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 2:22 am

Air Canada and QANTAS

Ac often come top or near top of safety leagues,though it is really hard to define.

Qantas have never had a major crash and if they have lost any people since they became a jet airline it is very minimal indeed.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 2:23 am

sorry - the "VS" with 31 is Varig - RG. Daniel Smile

VS - 0
EK - 0
TD - 1
HP - 1
WN - 1
GF - 2
QF - 2
SQ - 3
TP - 4
NZ - 4
BA - 5
CX - 5
LY - 5
MH - 6
SA - 7
AM - 7
AN - 7
OA - 8
US - 8
AC - 9
LH - 10
SK - 12
AS - 12
CO - 12
SR - 13
TG - 13
JL - 14
AZ - 15
CI - 16
MX - 16
MS - 16
CA - 17
NH - 17
KE - 17
AI - 18
SV - 18
DL - 18
SN - 19
TK - 19
KL - 22
NW - 24
PK - 27
RG - 31
GA - 31
AR - 32
AA - 34
UA - 41
TW - 42
IB - 43
AF - 78

 
737doctor
Posts: 1291
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:52 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 2:59 am

Mac, Southwest is considered a major airline as they earn more than one billion dollars in revenue per year.
Patrick Bateman is my hero.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 4:18 pm

This "AirSafetyOnLine Report Card" is crap...and the rating system is completely out of whack....

...it estimates ValuJet/AirTran has only operated .17 million flights since operations began in September 1993. Even a very conservative estimate is closer to .47 million (not even including the flights operated by the orig AirTran prior to the merger) actually giving the carrier a 2.13 rating, a "B". The airline would have to operate for another 22 months (at it's current size, not taking into account the anticipated growth) without a fatality to earn an "A".

...Midwest Express gets a "D"?!?!?!? for an accident that was SIXTEEN years ago?

For the period of 1970 to present (the period these grades are based on), let's look at airlines that have had more than one fatal accident in a five year period:


AMERICAN AIRLINES

Two within three years: 1976 and 1979
Two within four years: 1995 and 1999

DELTA AIR LINES

Two within two years: 1972 and 1973
Two within three years: 1985 and 1988

TWA

Three within two years: 1973 and 2 in 1974

UNITED AIRLINES

Three within two years: 1991 and 2 in 1989

US AIRWAYS

Five within five years: 1989, 1991, 1992, and 2 in 1994


The above doesn't include other accidents, only those that occurred within five years of one another....YET all of the above airlines recieved "A" ratings...but

ValuJet/AirTran has ONE accident in eight years recieves an "F" (should actually be a "B" - they screwed up on their flight estimate).

Midwest Express has ONE accident in sixteen years recieves a "D".


Am I implying that ANY of the above airlines are unsafe? NO, of course not...the US carriers are among the safest in the world. I'm simply saying that ANY "statisitic" or "rating" of ANYTHING can be torqued or misaligned depending on the variables imposed.

Just my two cents...

Travis



 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

AF 78?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:35 pm

Damn.

AF had 7 fatal accidents in the last 30 years.
That means they had about 71 accidents in the 25 years before.

Where did you get this information ?
 
Teej13
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 5:52 am

RE: AF 78?

Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:59 pm

I give repsect to the following:
Aer Lingus - they've only lost one plane, way back in the late 1960s, and even today, Ireland's holding inquests into that thing
SAS - Lots of miles, no incidents!
EL AL - Considering the unrest in Israel, they've done quite well!
Southwest - although Burbank could've been ugly!
British Airways, Air Canada, Qantas, Cathay Pacific, for the sheer numbers that they safely carry.
 
VgnAtl747
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 3:59 am

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:07 am

Virgin Atlantic !!!
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Sebolino

Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:39 am

I´ve got the information concerning AF´s 78 accidents (69 AF + 9 IT) from the aviation-safety.net (my favourite website for these purposes).

I´m not talikng about fatal accidents, but rather every accident in which an airliner was written off.

Here´s a more detailed list, by year:

46: 3 DC3
47: 2 DC3, 1 SE161
48: 1 DC3, 2 DC4, 6 SE161
49: 1 Connie, 2 DC4, 1 SE161
50: 1 DC3, 3 DC4, 1 SE161
51: 1 DC3, 1 DC4
52: 2 SE161
53: 2 Connies
54: 2 Connies
55: 2 DC3
56: 2 DC3, 1 Viscount
57: 1 Connie, 1 DC3, 1 DC4, 1 SE2010
58: 1 Connie, 1 DC3, 1 DC4
59: 1 DC3
60: 1 Connie
61: 1 707, 1 Caravelle, 1 Connie
62: 2 707, 1 DC3
63: 1 DC3, 1 Viscount (Air Inter)
68: 1 707, 1 Caravelle (Air Inter)
69: 1 707, 1 DC4
71: 1 Caravelle (Air Inter), 1 Viscount (Air Inter)
72: 1 Viscount (Air Inter)
73: 1 F27
74: 1 Caravelle (Air Inter), 1 F27 (Air Inter)
75: 1 747
76: 1 707, 1 Caravelle
79: 1 Caravelle
82: 1 A300
85: 1 747
88: 1 A320
92: 1 A320 (Air Inter)
93: 1 A300 (Air Inter)
94: 1 A340, 1 A300
99: 1 747, 1 737
00: 1 Concorde

..which leads us to the astonishing combined AF/IT total of 78 write offs:
1 Concorde
3 747
1 A340
3 A300
6 707
2 A320
1 737
6 Caravelles
9 Connies
2 F27
4 Viscounts
11 DC4
17 DC3
1 SE2010
11 SE161

I have to admit I was kind of surprised as well.

Daniel Smile

P.S.: I forgot to include the 13 losses USAirways had under their previous names, which would lift their total to 21 - sorry.

 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Airline With Best Safety Record?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:58 pm

This "AirSafetyOnLine Report Card" is crap...and the rating system is completely out of whack....

...it estimates ValuJet/AirTran has only operated .17 million flights since operations began in
September 1993. Even a very conservative estimate is closer to .47 million (not even including the
flights operated by the orig AirTran prior to the merger) actually giving the carrier a 2.13 rating, a "B".
The airline would have to operate for another 22 months (at it's current size, not taking into account
the anticipated growth) without a fatality to earn an "A".

...Midwest Express gets a "D"?!?!?!? for an accident that was SIXTEEN years ago?

For the period of 1970 to present (the period these grades are based on), let's look at airlines that
have had more than one fatal accident in a five year period:


AMERICAN AIRLINES

Two within three years: 1976 and 1979
Two within four years: 1995 and 1999

DELTA AIR LINES

Two within two years: 1972 and 1973
Two within three years: 1985 and 1988

TWA

Three within two years: 1973 and 2 in 1974

UNITED AIRLINES

Three within two years: 1991 and 2 in 1989

US AIRWAYS

Five within five years: 1989, 1991, 1992, and 2 in 1994


The above doesn't include other accidents, only those that occurred within five years of one
another....YET all of the above airlines recieved "A" ratings...but

ValuJet/AirTran has ONE accident in eight years recieves an "F" (should actually be a "B" - they
screwed up on their flight estimate).

Midwest Express has ONE accident in sixteen years recieves a "D".


Am I implying that ANY of the above airlines are unsafe? NO, of course not...the US carriers are
among the safest in the world. I'm simply saying that ANY "statisitic" or "rating" of ANYTHING can be
torqued or misaligned depending on the variables imposed.

Just my two cents...

Travis
 
sccutler
Posts: 5582
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

It All Depends...

Fri Jun 15, 2001 8:08 pm

It all depends on what your source is-

A record of performance and safety;

Or Dustin Hoffman, in Rain Man.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

_________

And for those of you who try to characterize Southwest as "not a major carrier"- that's what the US domestic carriers all want to do, pretty much every time they have to compare statistics of all kinds to Southwest. But with well over three hundred active aircraft, a rapidly growing fleet and unmatched safety standards, the odds favor you well, indeed, on WN.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, Alexa [Bot], AsiaTravel, ba319-131, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Bluebird191, Buml, eclipz, ERJ135, ernestxwb, Exabot [Bot], EY460, Eyad89, FAST Enterprise [Crawler], GloomyDe, lcycs300, Mani87, MayaviaERJ190, n272wa, olle, pdx, pompos, starbucks, tomofutah, trent1000, UltimoTiger777, YIMBY and 265 guests