SA365C1
Topic Author
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 1:39 am

Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 10:53 am

Ceilidh,

What is the story with your planned airline, is it going to happen, just that I have seen your website and the last update was 12th January 2001, I thought there maybe some new information you may wish to share.

I am not trying to jump on the bandwagon of the people who give you pelters for trying to make a imaginery airline, I am just very interested to know if it will happen or not??
 
galaxy5
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 10:09 pm

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:25 am

hey Ceilidh will you hire me to fly for you. i need a job im getting out of the airforce soon.
"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:27 am

Can I request that no one answers this, we all know where its going to lead.
 
englandair
Posts: 2193
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 4:34 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:28 am

Yes I'd be interested to read Ceilidhs reply too.
Johan, can we please not close this topic this strait away?
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:35 am

SA365C1 - in this business there's no such thing as a definitive answer on such a big project as that which I'm trying to accomplish. It would be easy for me to say "absolutely" - but that wouldn't be entirely accurate as there are so many outside factors involved - many of which I have absolutely no control over. Asb B747-437B - he thought that he and his team, backed by a respected financial group that we have mutual contacts at, would enable him and the people he was working with to pull off the TWA takeover. They spent a great deal of money - all on risk. And, at the end of the day, it was all for nothing.

I will say this - I've assembled a first class team and we'll give it all we've got. We're still a long way off yet, though, and lots can still go wrong - especially with the current Bermuda II negotiations creating a fair amount of animosity between the UK and US governments.

So yes, we're still working on it and we're quietly confident that we'll be airborne within the next year or so. Funding is pretty much in place and the aircraft are getting cheaper by the day!

As you say, there are those around who will 'give us pelters' - if I was them, I'd have adopted more of a wait and see attitude or at the most contributed constructive criticism... this industry is very small and those in it tend to have long memories.

Then of course there are the complete scumbags!! Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:42 am

We have waited and been lied to repeatedly!
Iain
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:51 am

This is one of those cases where I am able to look into the future...... here goes.

1: The initial innocent question.
2: Freeboot appears and starts his usual line of questioning.
3: The Guv issues a rebuttal asking for Freeboots identity.
4: The Guv appears in another persona to vouch for himself. Lawyergirl was already used, so it wont be that one.
5: The Guv gets caught out.
6: The Guv issues a lawyers letter to the bulletin boards owner.
7: The Guv then denies issuing this letter and says that it was a misunderstanding.
8: The board owner bans all discussions about The Guv, Ceilidh, CalWings, Celtic Airways and Delta L1011's.
9: The whole thing starts again on yet another board.

Let the game begin.........

 
wirraway
Posts: 1294
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2001 4:32 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 11:54 am

To those that don't know the story, its a long story
but well worth the read.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


....The "Sunday Mail" has taken up Robertson many times, and they can also reveal that he, who calls himself "The Guvnor" on PPrune and "Ceilidh" on Airliners Net,........
..........................................................................

"We haven't really talked with Caledonian Wings." was the reply when I asked Delta Air Lines about the airline.

Frequent visitors of this website, or people who know about the Lockheed L-1011 TriStar well, probably thought ÒWhat!?Ó the moment you read this first sentence. Caledonian Wings, formerly known as Celtic Airways, has been known for its humongous, ironic plan that took the airline industry observers by surprise; a plan to purchase 44 L-1011s from Atlanta-based mega carrier Delta Air Lines. Neil Robertson, the Chief Executive Officer of Caledonian Wings has been telling the media since early this year that he is under negotiations with Delta Air Lines, and that talks were progressing smoothly, despite slowly. According to Robertson, the new airline would offer low-fare transatlantic flights from Scotland's Prestwick International Airport commencing April 2001. He claims that the airline will grow quickly, becoming the largest operator of the L-1011, opening and thus developing Scottish tourism. Well, then what did Delta's words mean!?

Recently, I had been receiving numerous letters asking whether Caledonian Wings really existed or not. They had announced their existence in spring 2000, and surprised, or should I say took everyone by doubt, when they told the media that they intended to acquire 44 L-1011s from Delta for ACMI (Aircraft Crew Maintenance Insurance) services. Robertson reported that the new airline would be based at Shannon, and that a huge L-1011 overhaul complex would be built there. TriStar enthusiasts around the world were probably delighted to hear this, since it was like a dream coming true. But, when Robertson kept giving similar announcements on and on that he was "making progress, despite slowly", shades of dark clouds started to gather in our minds.

When Robertson first emailed me, he was not asking me to assist in finding an airworthy L-1011 TriStar available at a reasonable price, but instead asked me if I could suggest a good name for his new airline! I replied "Excel" (now used by former Sabre Airways), but then he told me that he had made up his mind on "Celtic Airways", the reason being that "Celtic" was his favorite word. Next, he emailed me a large chart identifying the names and registrations he hoped to apply to the L-1011s he planned to acquire, which he hadn't even submitted to the Ireland's aviation authority. After that, he introduced me Africargo Airlines and told me that they operated ACMI leases worldwide with Boeing 747Fs, L-1011Fs and "many" cargo propliners. He also told me about City Connexions Airlines, which he said was a local airline based in Burundi utilizing a fleet of "fuel-efficient" Canadair CL-44s. I searched for the two airlines in several aviation directories and publications, including "JP Airline Fleets", but I could not find anything about it, and nor did my friends did. Robertson told me that he negotiated with BWIA for three months in acquiring three L-1011-500s. He reports that the negotiations were terminated since BWIA asked too much money for the aircraft. But BWIA has nothing about the discussions on their website. Before summer, Robertson told me that he had plans on setting up a leasing company exclusively for the L-1011 in Gibraltar named Elten Acquisitions Limited, and that Caledonian Wings would lease the L-1011s from them. Well, let's see, what's the point of leasing aircraft from a subsidiary leasing company? Recently, he told me that he would rename his airline "Caledonian Wings" with the "parent company"(?) being named "Wings Holdings", although he didn't tell me any reasons for this move. He then told me his tie up with BPI Aerospace to form a large company to acquire the L-1011s from Delta. But BPI Aerospace has nothing about it on their website either. Anyway, why would anyone form an airline by forming an alliance with a company who's major is in providing spare parts?

One day, a pilot who had lost his job with Kitty Hawk International, because of the airline's bankruptcy, came up to me if I could help him find a new job, of course as a TriStar pilot. At that point of time, I did not know much about Celtic, so I suggested him to try Celtic, and told him Robertson's mail address. The pilot later told me that Robertson answered him, but his words had absolutely no reliability. "The salaries were too good to believe..."

Turning back to the basics, the most important thing for any kind of business is "money." He has boasted of creating 250 jobs at Prestwick with direct flights to Boston, Orlando, New York, Los Angeles, Toronto, and Washington DC for as little as 165 pounds roundtrip. Recently, he said that he was close to clinching a 30 million-pound deal with Delta to buy three of its aging L-1011s. Remember, the "deal" was to have led to Robertson buying 44 aircraft, instead of three. He boasted "We will have no problem filling our seats. It will be carriers like British Airways who will feel the pinch when we start up. As long as we can conclude this deal with Delta, we will be flying by Easter." But a senior Delta source revealed "The last time this news came out, checked and the reality was we have never actually talked with them. We run up against this sort of thing on a regular basis. It enhances their public perception and, in a lot of cases, enhances negotiations with governments and others to say they are talking with Delta Air Lines." An official Delta spokesman said it was their policy not to identify firms involved in buying aircraft until the deal was complete. But in anyway, they revealed that Robertson was an "unreliable client". Robertson's last HQ was an office at Bujumbura Airport in Burundi. A friend of mine who is involved the airline business said that in the beginning of this year, Robertson came up to him and asked if he could find a job! An airline is nothing without aircraft and employees. I tried writing emails to different departments at Wings Holdings to find out more about Robertson's biography, but surprisingly, all of them were replied by Robertson. Is there anyone who works for Robertson?

Talking more about "aircraft", Robertson reportedly purchased N31023 (msn 1080) from PK Airfinance. This fact is extremely hard to believe, since this aircraft is one of the TriStars which have accumulated the highest hours, having logged 71,299 hours. The aircraft would absolutely need a C-Check. In addition, the aircraft has been stored at Kingman, Arizona since its retirement from Trans World Airlines back in September 1997. A photographer shared with me a recent photo of the aircraft sitting on the desert sands at Kingman, and it did not seem airworthy at all. Asking the sources, they said that they haven't heard of Caledonian Wings, and that the aircraft may have to be scrapped soon, since a new owner could not be found. First of all, from an industry observer's point of view, how effective could acquiring 44 overaged, fuel-thirsty widebodies be for a startup airline, when maintenance fees and fuel cost a fortune these days?

Tracing Neil Robertson's biography, it revealed that he is a failed pilot linked to a trail of broken businesses. He claims to have acquired Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 experience, but according to sources who actually know him, the only genuine pilot he has obtained is a South African PPL and in no ways above that. He is at age 35, and he claims his firm, Caledonian Wings, will pioneer flights from Prestwick International Airport to the USA and Canada. A few weeks ago, he claimed that he was buying L-1011 TriStars which would be flying across the Atlantic by April 2001. But research revealed that the closest Robertson has come to being an airline tycoon was running two clapped-out freight planes from a dusty airstrip in Africa under the name of Africargo Airlines, which was not listed in any airline directories. But, as previously mentioned, Robertson boasted that the airline operated Boeing 747Fs, L-1011Fs and many propliners. And the thing is this even ended up in disaster. Seven months ago, both planes were blown up by explosions which killed more than 100 people. But all of this was flipped over later, as more "truth" started to show from the dark. It came out that both Africargo and City Connexion were "paper" or "internet" airlines. The CL-44, which is reportedly registered 9U-BHI, does have that registration but has never been owned or operated by neither City Connexions nor Robertson. This was revealed by one of the actual owners of the aircraft. The "Sunday Mail" has taken up Robertson many times, and they can also reveal that he, who calls himself "The Guvnor" on PPrune and "Ceilidh" on Airliners Net, has been involved in more than 10 "airlines" - few, if any of which ever made it into the air. According to their information, his bases have included a string of war-torn African countries notorious for diamond and arms smuggling. Robertson, whose only pilot's qualification is a lapsed licence he bought in Nigeria for 60 pounds, returned home to England to set up Caledonian Wings. Plugging the firm on TV and in the Press, he said it would be Scotland's first international airline. Prestwick's managing director, Tom Wilson, was persuaded that the new airline could get off the ground. He said "If it gets the planes and finance to start up, there is no doubt it will work. We would welcome transatlantic flights back with open arms. It would be a major stimulant for the Ayrshire economy." But they also said that "At this stage Caledonian Wings is an idea - so far the company has not yet purchased aircraft from supplier Delta. We hope of course that finance can be raised however until that happens, Prestwick is not involved." And despite publishing ticket prices and advertising for staff, Robertson's airline has no aircraft or pilots whatsoever. The company's "switchboard" is Robertson's mobile phone, while the "office" is his laptop computer. And the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has never heard of him or his firm. On his website, Robertson still claims he will be raising 350 million pounds to buy and overhaul 44 L-1011s.

Robertson has been involved at various levels with "airlines" in Equatorial Guinea, Uganda, Rwanda, Tanzania and the Democratic Republic of Congo. As previously mentiones, the common fact about the areas is that all of them are notorious for its civil wars, corruption and lawlessness. Robertson's firms included City Connexions, SecureAir, FreshAir, TransOceanic, PegasusAir, Lionair, Skymaster Freight, Trans Lloyd Cargo and Africargo Airlines. And not even Africargo operated any aircraft. It was run by Robertson and another of his firms, City Connexions. The two propeller-driven freight planes told to have been operated by Africargo, built in 1961 and 1964, were destroyed, or at least heavily damaged, at Kinshasa Airport in the Democratic Republic of Congo in April anyway. The inferno was blamed on a soldier dropping explosives. At least 100 people died and 200 were injured. Shortly before the catastrophe, Robertson announced that City Connexions were also grounded, blaming it on "political problems". The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said anyone wanting to run an airline in the UK would need both an Air Operating Certificate (AOC) and an Operating Licence. But a CAA spokeswoman said few days ago that they had not been contacted by Caledonian Wings or any other firm Robertson has used for his latest venture - Celtic Airways, Celtic Aviation, Celtic Caledonian, Wings Holdings or the Odyssey Group. Even if they had been contacted, applying for such rights takes more than six months national and an additional four months for international routes. Robertson's plans seem way too premature, don't you think so?

In January 2001, Robertson reported that due to "difficulties", the inaugural flight will not take place until April 2002. But he says that he would take advantage of this period of time making efforts to gain many certificates he needs in order to commence operations. He also says that he has posted the availability of their L-1011s for wet-lease contracts and that the response from the industry was great. Can this be? Even Air Atlanta Icelandic, who is well-known for their ACMI leases, is having some hardships in finding contractors. Later, Robertson released news that he is now ready to place his first TriStar online, which he claims is N31023 (msn 1080), as previously mentioned. He used the wording "ready to rock'n roll", but is the aircraft really going to? Early this year, a representative from an aviation company made a visit to Kingman, Arizona, where N31023 is parked, like most other remaining TriStars which were with Trans World Airlines. He reported that the aircraft was still sitting on sand, missing all of its three engines and many other vital parts, and looking like if it is going to be scrapped soon. According to his report, the aircraft has not been touched for many years. Well, then what did Robertson mean by "rock'n roll"? Is he going to convert the aircraft into a disco or what?

Well, from the points viewed, a man named Neil Robertson is planning to start transatlantic services as Caledonian Wings, but they have no aircraft, no crew, no rights, and they are missing the most important thing of all, cash! Also, as this article points out, there are serious doubts about Robertson's words. It would be a dreams-come-true for us TriStar fans and enthusiasts worldwide, to be able to see 44 L-1011s return to the skies, and it's sure that Scotland would appreciate the development of tourism, but we sure can't hold much hope in this one. Caledonian Wings is likely to end up betraying all our hopes and dreams, turning itself into just a cluster of broken promises...

This article was posted on: April 4, 2001


 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:05 pm

IainHol,

Your credibility on this subject is ZERO, Scottish birdwatching site, my ar5e!!!!

Cyber squatting more like it.

For those who dont know the story, Ceilidh was foolish enough to announce the proposed name of his airline prior to registering the www name. IainHol and his Dad 'somehow' decided to set up a birdwatchers site using this same name. This site isnt in operation and was actually offered for sale back to CalWings.......

You make me sick!
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:17 pm

Ambasaid - I have categorically never had a lawyer's letter issued to either Johan or PPRuNe; even though I would be perfectly within my rights to do so. There's a fine line between truth and libel - and certain people here (including in particular Freeboot) go well over that line. An ISP or board owner owes a duty to ensure that such libels are not disseminated and is required to delete or at least remove for verification any posting which is identified as such; failing which s/he is liable to be sued for publishing such libel.

That's the law as it stands today - I didn't write it!

Iainhol - FYI, I had breakfast with Freddie Laker this morning, and I mentioned that you claimed his first wife committed suicide after he divorced her. He wasn't exactly pleased by it. And what 'lies', exactly, have you been 'repeatedly told' about the project?
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:20 pm

Ambasaid it is a pity you only know one side of the story, Ceilidh approached us about our Twitcher site, and informed us that he had trademarks going through in the UK, US and Canada. We ran a search on the United States trademark and Patent website, and found no paperwork had been submitted in regards to Calwings. However we did include in the email if he had submitted the paperwork we would be willing to sell it at a fair market value. His response was you have helped uncover some inefficiencies my end. You can interpret that for yourself.

In regards to your allegations about this being classed as Cybersquatting, I got this from cybersquatting.com.

If you own a name with the intent of setting up an e-commerce site or informational database on the Internet, that is totally different. According to Silicon Spin, you could own the domain name www.nike.com, as long as you were using it and not trying to sell it back at a higher price to the famous company. If you had a dog named Nike, you could use that domain name for pictures of your dog. With no problems at all.

After reading that it is obvious that what we have done is not cybersquatting!
Iain
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:24 pm

Ambasaid, I actually thought that was the funniest part of it all!

rgds
russ
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:25 pm

Amabasaid: You said

6: The Guv issues a lawyers letter to the bulletin boards owner.
7: The Guv then denies issuing this letter and says that it was a misunderstanding.


I have not heard about this story, could you tell me what happened?

Ceildish:

Cut the legal crap about issuing lawyers letters. Do we have to remind you that YOU went against the rules of this forum by registering 2 usernames and that YOU have deliberatelly (sp?) told lies on this forum to every forum member by using Lawyergal?

Nicolas
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:27 pm

Iainhol - you're talking complete crap. The remarkable coincidence of you/your dad registering the site after - as Ambasaid rightly said, I foolishly disclosed the new working name before buying up all the DNS names - was indeed cybersquatting. Your Dad offered to sell it to me "at market rates". According to my attorney, the fact that I had already publicly stated that that was the name I intended to use - and that I could demonstrate clear knowledge by you of that intention - plus the fact that your promised 'web cams of Scottish birds' have not transpired and your offer on PPRuNe of caledonianwings.com email addresses demonstrates clear malicious intent; and in his opinion, we'd have a good case against you both.

Luckily for us, you're in Buckinghamshire and come under UK jurisdiction! Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:32 pm

Nikolai - I have already said why I created the 'Lawyergal' identity, and I don't intend to go into it again. If you think that no one else has more than one identity on here - despite what the rules say - you're remarkably naive.

Also, please ensure that you spell user names correctly. You used two in your post and you managed to get both wrong. It's only common courtesy!
 
tt737fo
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:13 am

Wirraway

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:46 pm

This was, perhaps, the most inciteful and well produced post I have read on airliners.net. Thank you for exposing a simple truth:

CEILIDH IS A FRAUD
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:47 pm

Ceilidh, My understanding of cybersquatting is what I have written above. This is from a site dedicated to the subject.
In regards to the webcams, as you will notice the site is far from complete. We would certainly like to put webcams up, however these things take time.
About making the site a free-web based e-mail server, this was bought up over dinner, after Brissiie Lion joked about it in the chat. This feature would make the site an everyday stop, rather then make it a one time stop. However this is just an idea, and if we do go through with it, you just like everyone else are more then welcome to sign up!
Iain
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:52 pm

About your chat with Freddie, I find it hard to believe that anyone would bring up such over breakfast. Considering she bought my god-mothers house, and my parents lived in the local area from what we know what I have said is correct.
Iain
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 12:54 pm

?
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:07 pm

Yes we all know why you created Lawyergal, because ceilidh had lost all it's credibility.

I would encourage eveybody to read the thread called Caledonian Wings - Come Flap With Me! at http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/337808/ It's reall worth reading especially at the end!!

Sorry for the typos in the usernames but you too make typo, especially in the username field where you confused Ceilidh for Lawyergal hehe  Laugh out loud

Nicolas
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:12 pm

Iain, please do not try to give us the impression that your intentions were honorable! As for your definition of cyber squatting, I guess that you better ask some of the people in the UK who have used the word "EASY"!

Ceilidh,
Ambasaid - I have categorically never had a lawyer's letter issued to either Johan or PPRuNe; even though I would be perfectly within my rights to do so.

Then what on earth was the Pprune message from Capt Pprune on the 26 September 2000 09:57 all about? Was his interpretation incorrect? Would you care to show us your initial message to clear up any confusion?
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 1:14 pm

BTW I'm not naive as you said Ceilidh, I know some people have multiple username, however they just have them merely for fun, as you had one to cover your ass. When i post something on here where i make mistake I don't hide myself behind another username. That's the difference Ceilidh.

Nicolas
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 2:05 pm

Ambasaid, according to the site, we did nothing wrong! And Ceilidh all our websites are registered and maintain in the US, so it would not fall under UK jurisdiction.  Laugh out loud
Iain
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 2:12 pm

Well Iain, I guess that the only way we will really know who is right is if Ceilidh sues you!

Now what university are you attending in the UK?
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 2:54 pm

Since Ceilidh dragged my name into this, let me first stress that neither myself nor any entity that I have ever been involved with has a business relationship with him beyond casual contacts.

We do have a few mutual acquaintances, who vouch that he does indeed exist and that he does indeed seek funding for random airline projects every few months, but thats all I am willing to say.

My personal interactions with Neil show him to be a somewhat untrustworthy person and I would not enter into any dealings with him without skepticism.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 2:54 pm

I agree that Iainhol may not have the most tact and discretion of board members here, but unlike Ceilidh, is not neccesarily a fraud. So he's a bastard maybe about the website thing. It's better than out-and-out lying 24/7 (probably to himself aswell) about the future prospects of an airline.

He attends a college located in Southern England, north west of London, with the zip-code MK18, (I believe). He has said where he was going in the past, and I, for one, believe that he has more credibility than certain Caledonian flyers. He is not the one on trial here.

A few observations:
1) This saga has been running for months - nay - years. As yet it seems that, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary for sources all around the world with no axe to grind but wishing to know the truth, Mr Robertson refuses to conceed that it's all a giant farse, and that Prestwick will not be seeing 44 L-1011s (some of which have already been disassembled) any time soon in anything reminiscent of Caledonian Wings colors.

2) Ceilidh sparked something inside of me when he wrote, (above) "I had breakfast this morning with Freddie Laker." I don't know why, but this sets alarm bells ringing in my head. As with talking of Delta Air Lines so much in discussion, I believe this may be just another time where he inserts a famous aviation name to add credibility. This could, however, be doing him a grave injustice. But it strikes me that a) it is very convenient that you had breakfast with his that morning, and b) that you mentioned the rantings of a, (in your opinion) silly little college kid to such a man over breakfast.

3) Mr Robertson wrote: "As you say, there are those around who will 'give us pelters' - if I was them, I'd have adopted more of a wait and see attitude or at the most contributed constructive criticism... this industry is very small and those in it tend to have long memories.... Then of course there are the complete scumbags!!"
One of those scumbags, I feel, may well be you, sir.

In the words of DG_pilot, please step down, sir.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 2:59 pm

Maybe a lesson should be learned... coming from someone who is working on a start-up as well...

and the lesson is:

your plans SHOULDN'T BE POSTED HERE!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

hence why the First Choice Air site is down, and Midwest Wings Airlines... we've all decided to not even comment anymore on industry projections.

Heck, i even try NOT to post here that gives out information that may seem that I'm in the "know"...

Nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:03 pm

 Sleepy
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
tt737fo
Posts: 468
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:13 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:35 pm

My personal interactions with Neil show him to be a somewhat untrustworthy person and I would not enter into any dealings with him without skepticism.

 Laugh out loud


What a nice way of saying that someone is really a piece of.....FOD.
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:41 pm

N863DA As they say 2 out of 3 ain't bad. The You are wrong on the postal code bit.
Iain
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 3:50 pm

Well I was trying to support you, not attack you.

Guess I got the wrong website, then....

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 4:03 pm

Well, there isn't even a need for me to enter into this discussion! Big grin Big grin Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 4:06 pm

Every network needs a soap opera...

...though I knew absolutely nothing about this matter ten minutes ago, I'd have to commend Ambasaid for his accurate prediction of how this will play out. As for it's value on this forum, well...if I wanted a soap opera, I'd check out the telly.

"This thread is the weakest link...GOOD BYE!!"
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 4:51 pm

N863DA - with all the experience of your many, many years in the business I can see how you'd have that view. Big grin Big grin Big grin

FYI, this whole thing was originated 18 months ago - not "years".

Also, I know perfectly well where Iainhol is - Aylesbury. Strangely, he still doesn't wish to enlighten us as where he's studying - though I suspect you inadvertantly let the cat out of the bag when you said college.

SegmentKing - absolutely correct. That's why there's nothing about what's really going to be happening that's currently being posted - and all those involved (including myself) are keeping quiet. Lesson learnt!

B747-437B - that was totally uncalled for - as well as being a blatant lie. Strangely, this is what I was told about you:

I sent it to Dan and Kerry at Aerobanc as they needed to know about this,
as Sean Mendis has no right to give out any information like he did. If Sean
got back to you and gave you shit, I apologize, but you don't need to get
involved with kids like him as it can hurt your venture, and having you send
that to me puts you in Aerobanc's good books. Too much at stake here to play
games with children.


Seems like you're the one with no cred - at least, not where it matters!!

People - wait and see. If something happens, and the skies over PIK are darkened with aircraft, then the little children like N863DA, Iainhol and Nikolai will end up with egg on their faces - and doubtless will be amongst the first sending begging letters asking for jobs, freebies and jump seat rides. If not - well, none of you have invested a penny in this.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:06 pm

Anybody seen any three engined 777s around?
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:22 pm

Neil - Unlike you, I don't post emails from folks like Bryan online. And since when was Bryan an authority on what I was authorized to send to you? All the information I sent you was with the approval of the JAG team as their media spokesperson (albeit not with their knowledge it was going to you), but you turned around and did exactly what you agreed not to. Good job Neil. If that doesn't make you untrustworthy, I don't know what does.

I could post what Dan, Kerry, Albert and others have told me about you, but lets not get into a war like that because neither one of us will come out smelling like roses, and unlike you I still have some self respect left.

I've been straight with you Neil, but you have been nothing but a snake in your limited dealings with me. Why should I state any different publicly? Its not like you have any reputation left to be ruined.

I hope for your sake that Caledonian Wings works out. However, I am skeptical as would be anyone else in my position.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:24 pm

>>then the little children like N863DA, Iainhol and Nikolai will end up with egg on their faces<<

Never for one second did I say or imply that I have any experience in this industry with the exception of the fact I'm a junior in Av. Biz Admin. - but that's totally irrelevant.

From a purely tonal and credibility point of view - disregarding the industry - you are hardly one to voice or talk.

Also, you can guarantee I won't be asking for a job - thanks, but no thanks - as I have no intention of leaving this country.

To DeltaSFO: Those new three-engined 777s sure take-off better than even the 757-200! We had one here in Daytona a few hours ago. LOL.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:40 pm

Aylesbury is a good guess but it is not even close to where I live. I used to live quite close to there though! GO DUCKS!
I will give you a hint though, I fly out of Booker!
Iain
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:48 pm

B747-437B - as I explained to you at the time, it was simply a matter of verification. If all was as you claimed, then there would have been no problem passing it on to another member of the team - except that wasn't the case, was it? Big grin Big grin Big grin

I haven't met or had any dealings with Dan or Kerry - and as for Albert, that which I've been told isn't good. However, I haven't had any personal dealings with him, either. Strange that they (or you) should claim that I "seek funding for random airline projects every few months" as although I've been invited by Aerobanc to submit a proposal, I have in fact never done so.

As you say, let's drop this argument - as it doesn't benefit either of us. If you look at most of my other posts where your name's cropped up, I've treated you in a courteous and positive manner - and would appreciate it if you'd do the same to me.
 
Granite
Posts: 5026
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:55 pm

Hi All

Fri Jun 15, 2001 5:56 pm

Hi all

This thread is doing OK so please let's keep it civil.

Any sign of trouble and it will be locked.

This is not a dig at anyone, just an observation.

Have a nice weekend all  Smile

Regards
Gary Watt
Aberdeen, Scotland
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 6:01 pm

If all was as you claimed, then there would have been no problem passing it on to another member of the team - except that wasn't the case, was it?

There was no problem with WHAT you did, Neil. The problem was that you did it after I SPECIFICALLY requested you not to, even going so far as to stress that as a precondition to providing you that information. That was simply not ethical on your part. However, that is behind us, and lets leave it in the past.

Lets agree that you can poke fun at me everytime the TWA-AA deal is mentioned and I can poke fun at you whenever the L1011s are mentioned!  Smile Anything else can stay in private email, where it belongs.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 6:28 pm

B747-437 - agreed!  Big thumbs up
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 6:33 pm

Oh well ...

- Acceptable for him to obtain a Nigerian ALTP through fraudulent means.
- Acceptable to break the BB rules on multiple ID's, to which he agreed each time he registered one of his many alter ego's.
- Acceptable to refuse to disclose where he obtained his "Masters" degrees, while at the same time badgering other posters to disclose where they are presently studying.

Hmmm, bit of a pattern emerging here. This individual evidently considers himself to be above the laws of the land. Considers himself not bound by the rules to which he had previouslly agreed to. Considers himself above the normal standards to which others are held.
 
SegmentKing
Posts: 3224
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2000 7:16 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:22 pm

Since when as Aerobanc become such a talking point here... from what I know about them, they are into aircraft leasing, not airline financing.. although they offer ASSISTANCE with it.

And most of the stuff at Aerobanc is kept under wraps, Bryan was even surprised to find out some of the stuff I knew.. but then again, so were a ton of other people..

isn't it nice when you can live your life and do business in total privacy without having to explain it to EVERYONE!?!?!?
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:33 pm

Guys, whats the point? You can argue all you want but is that going to prove that Neil is in fact a fraud or not?

No, So stop your whining

Night, EGGD Big grin
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:37 pm

Hello,

Well me, unlike most of you, I actually believe Ceilidh. At least he is trying to open an airline unlike most of you. How many of you actually try and follow your dreams? IMHO, very few.

I have seen enough evidence that he is seriously trying to open an airline and that he is definitely not the fraud that so many of you claim him to be.

Freeboot, why don't you just give it a rest? We all know what you will say over and over again.....

I believe that one day we will see Caledonian Wings fly!

Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Guest

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Fri Jun 15, 2001 9:15 pm

>>- Acceptable to break the BB rules on multiple ID's, to which he agreed each time he registered one of his many alter ego's.<<

You are so right F_boot...I mean Freeboot.
 
us330
Posts: 3421
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Sat Jun 16, 2001 12:08 am

Fraud/No fraud. Let's just agree to disagree on this topic. Also, I do not think that the judgement of one's character should be up for debate in the civil aviation forum. The future of Caledonian Wings is fair game, however. Although this thread may have began with decent intentions of procuring more information, it has quickly evolved into an all out criticism of a member.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Sat Jun 16, 2001 12:25 am

Why does everyone here take all this as a personal attack? Ceilidh has done nothing to us. He is a man with a dream. Regardless of whether it is real, or made up or whether it will eventually happen or not, we should wish him luck. If he has lied, then so be it. It's not as if he has killed our loved ones, given us cheques that have bounced, threatened our safety or anything like that.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I would like to start my airline too oneday. I probably won't, but I can imagine can't I?
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Ceilidh, Time For A Definitive Answer?

Sat Jun 16, 2001 12:57 am

Why does everyone here take all this as a personal attack? Ceilidh has done nothing to us. He is a man with a dream. Regardless of whether it is real, or made up or whether it will eventually happen or not, we should wish him luck. If he has lied, then so be it. It's not as if he has killed our loved ones, given us cheques that have bounced, threatened our safety or anything like that.

I tend to agree with CX flyboy on this. Barely a handful of people on this thread have any connection whatsoever with Neil outside of assorted internet forums. Arguably these are Iainhol, Freeboot, SegmentKing and myself. Everyone else is basing their judgement of him solely upon his posts which may or may not be reflective of his true character.

Neil and I have had major disagreements over various issues both online and offline, but I will be the first person to advocate letting him say/do what he wants here. He is a darn sight more interesting and knowledgable than United Airline and the other retarded pre-teens. Besides, if you give him enough rope, he usually hangs himself. Dare I say Lawyergal?  Smile
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada

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