Guest

AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:53 am

All of these are major American airlines. It looks like they have very organized fleet plans ahead of them to me.

AA:

737-800
757-200
767-200
767-300 (ER)
777-200

The A300 and 727 will be retired soon I think.

DL:

737-300
737-800
757-200
767-200
767-300 (ER)
777-200 (ER)

Exact same as AA, MD-11s being replaced with 777s, 727s and 732s, also L1011s gone soon.

UA:

A319
A320
757-200
767-200
767-300 (ER)
777-200 (ER)
777-300 (a possibility, but unlikely)
747-400

The 727s and 737s will be replaced with A320s in the next years to come.

CO:

737-300
737-600 (?? I think CO ordered this, not sure though)
737-700
737-800
737-900
757-200
757-300
767-200ER
767-400ER
777-200

The 727s and DC-10s should be gone in awhile.

NW:

DC-9 (when will they go?)
A318
A320
757-200
757-300
A330-200 (or was it the -300 they ordered?)
747-400
747-400LR (possible when they replace 742s)

The DC-10s, 727s, 742s, and some 752s will leave the fleet in the future.


So, what do you think these airlines future fleets will look like?
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6897
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 3:56 am

CO, DL, and AA will have the same fleets:

737NG (cockpit commonality, use different planes for different capacities)
757/767 - Cockpit commonailty
777
Sonic Cruiser

Jeff
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 4:11 am

CO has the 735, not the 736. AA will probably order the 73G in a few years as their MD-82's start to age. Also, DL has the 764 along with the other variants.
 
Guest

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 4:15 am

AA A300s are not going anywhere anytime soon, they're still pretty young, and no plans have been announced on replacing them

CO 737-600: I too thought I had seen an order for these by CO, but they probably converted them to the -700 and -800, 'cause there aren't any on the order books...

NW: It was the A330-300 they ordered.

Other than that, you're probably pretty close to the truth...

Greetings Big grin
 
Guest

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:18 am

If AA likes their A300s, what is the possibility of them going for some GE CF6 powered A330s instead of the 767-400ER if Airbus gives them a great deal to replace their A300s in a few years?
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:34 am

NO chance I can see of AA going to any additional Airbus products. The 35 AB6's will be around a while as most were acquired in the late 80's-early 90's. Long years of service a head for them.

With the economy slowing business travel, I bet that AA will also accelerate the retirement of the 727's and streamline the hubs with aircraft already on hand or on order. Next big order will come when they start to exercise options to begin the MD-80 replacement program....my guess, that starts in 4 yrs or so and with the most recent fresh arrivals of almost new MD-80s from TWA, you can expect MD-80s to around aa for at least another 20 yers..that would give them about a 40 year run at AA..almost the same as the 727.


As for the others listed in your post, I think you have most of it dialed in. I sincerely thought that the 777 was a better fit for NW that the A330...but its not my money.
 
Guest

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:36 am

Tedski,

Not a big possibility at all. The 764ER would suit AA perfectly for commonality with the 777s and 767s in AA's fleet. AA is trying to get an organized common fleet, so the A330 would mess it all up, there is no space for the A330 with the amount of 767s and 777s AA has. A330 doesn't have any commonality with the A300.

Juul,

Ok, sory about that. I'll add the A300.

I can't believe I forgot the Continental 735 and Delta 764.  Sad
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13296
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 5:50 am

AA recently ordered 15 additional 767-300s to replace TWA's pratt 767s and to pull A-300s off of trans-Atlantic flights.

The A-300s will go back to a two class high density configuration for use in the Carribean and Latin America out of SJU,MIA,and JFK.

There's a good possibility that AA will sell their A-300s to a cargo/package comapny (Fed Ex,UPS) and replace them with 757-300s for high density flights to the carribean and Latin America. The 757-300 is much more efficient for that type of short-medium range high density travel, the A-300s aren't a good fit for airlines because of it's limited range compared to a 767 however it's cargo capacity makes it valuable to Fed Ex,UPS etc..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
A330/B777
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2001 4:48 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:00 am

While the 757-300 is an amazing aircraft in terms of efficiency, it just can't haul cargo as well as the A300 can. This is a huge issue for AA because cargo is a huge part of thier business to the islands of the Carribean and Latin America.
 
Guest

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:07 am

A330/B777,

You're right, the 753 can't haul cargo as well, but the 767-300 can. So the 767-300ER will be the likely replacement of the A300s when the time comes.
 
A330/B777
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2001 4:48 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:50 am

I agree, B744, although the B764 might be a good replacement too, since the A300-600s seat over 260 pax in AA's 2-class layout.
 
Guest

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:55 am

You're correct, the 764 is also a possible replacement.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:58 am

Just to clear things up about CO, they never placed an order for the 736, and I doubt that they will. The 735's cover this market well, and they are still very young.

AA will probably order the 764 and have it two configurations, one for intl. flights, and one for high density short to medium haul flights. I wouldn't rule out the 753 though.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:29 am

The long term fleet plans for each of these carriers is pretty clear.

AA : AA's fleet seems to be set for a while, especially after the TWA integration. The volume of relatively new MD80s acquired serves as a fleet replenishment plan in itself for the Super 80 fleet. The 738 is obviously featuring bigtime in their plans, and look for an expansion of that fleet along with the possibility of some 73Gs for other flying (possibly a low cost subsidiary? maybe we will have Crandall's B-scale type program again?) The A300 is a major oddball in the fleet and don't expect to see them around too much longer. The older 767s will replace them in the Carribean as more 777s take over the FlAAgship services. A nice balance of widebodies and narrowbodies gives them a very balanced fleet plan in terms of capacity and costs.

CO : They are already phasing out the MD80s and replacing them with 737NGs. The 733s and 735s will be next to go, replaced with 73Gs. Everything upto the 120 seat capacity will be handled by Express. Remember, the IACP contract has no scope clause so there is no problem with this. There are no plans to acquire the 736 right now, but all the 73G orders are convertible to other variants. The domestic fleet will consist of 737s and 757s (both -200 and -300 series) while the international fleet will be 762, 764 and 777. Gordon is in complete command of everything here, except possibly his pilots who are threatening to bring in ALPA. Guys, JUST SAY NO!

DL : The L1011s are gone in a few weeks. MD-11s are an oddball, but will be around as long as the 777 line is backed up. The 764s are never going to be utilized as efficiently as Continentals will be, so learn to live with it. DL intends to essentially let the commuters handle almost all short-medium haul flying as the MD80s go out and more CRJs (the -700s especially) come in. Mainline flies the premium transcons and expanded international routes (with the occasional long thin route or high density shorthaul using the 757s and 738s), but the marginal routes get the lower-cost-structure subsidiaries. That is why Delta fought tooth and nail to get "scope clause" concessions from the mainline pilots in the contract dispute. And it also explains why ComAir held so firm in their dispute. They HAVE TO keep their costs down to fit in with DL's long term strategic plan.

NW : At last someone with question marks over them. The biggest question mark is the DC9 replacement. So far, there doesnt appear to be any contender to the 717 in this field (don't even suggest the A318 till Airbus proves it will even get off the ground) which explains why NW will probably not be keen on acquiring it just yet. They have traditionally been very conservative in this respect and will wait till a design proves itself before committing to it. The A330s will replace the DC-10-30s internationally, the 753s will replace the DC-10-40s domestically and the Airbuses are replacing the 727s. What about the transpac 742s? Good question again. If ETOPS 207 becomes a reality, we can expect the possibility of 777 variant in NW's future - but my gut instinct says that Anderson's conservative nature will stay within the 747 family instead.

UA : What an unenviable mess. Not since the creation of Allegis has UA seen such a glut of good stuff causing bad results. UA suffers from the classic problem of trying to be too much to everybody. An ideal standardization plan would be towards Airbus narrowbodies (319, 320) and Boeing widebodies (747, 767, 777). Dump the 737s double quick (spin off Shuttle? Dick Ferris, please pick up the white courtesy phone!) and find a niche for those 757s in long thin routes. Its gonna be messy, and Jimmy Goodwin has a job thats fast deteriorating into "nightmare" classification.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
imkeww
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:48 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 8:15 am

B747-437B:

Unfortunately, you are far too right in your assessment of UA's problem of being too much to too many...

One only needs to take a look at the multitude of cabin configurations to see this... even before UA finished other reconfigs, they decided to reconfig again. There is a horrible inconsistency of planes out there floating around with 6 or so different interior decors (although the newer decors are very rare), some 74's STILL without First Suite, mutiple crew rest configs on the triple, the list never ends. UAL can't seem to decide what standard configs it wants on the inside.

The United fleet standardization plan was established more than 5 years ago under Greenwald, and it is exactly what is hapeening right now; albeit, the A32X have been merely trickling in.

It's hard to dump the 157 strong workhorses in the 737 classic fleet when most aren't even 15 years old-- hell, younger than a lot of MD-80s. The widebody fleet has consisted of more than 150 modern 747-400, 767, and 777 aircraft; it's the largest and one of the most modern long range/widebody fleets in the world. I don't see a problem with the way UA is deplying 75's, for it is utilizing them just like all the other majors.

As it stands right now, the only white elephants in the fleet are the 24 737-200s... The 727s are fast going and should be gone before two years' passing. 35 should be retired in 2001.

In conclusion, I think UA's fleet strategy is a mess interior-wise, but very soundly arranged type-wise. United will have 6 standard fleet types in less than two years: B747-400, B777, B767/757, A32X, B737Classic, and the token 737-200. The natural progression will be more A32X series orders, with a faster delivery shedule.

At least it's not like AA, with 7in the forseeable future: B777, B767/757, 737NG, MD8X, B717, F100, A300R. Hell, DL is standardizing to 8: B777, B767/757, MD-11, MD-90, MD-80, 737Classic, 737-200, 737NG. No retirement plans have been made regarding the MD-80, MD-90, and 737-200, except for the possibility of 737-700s replacing the latter for express.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13296
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

B747-437B

Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:38 am

A couple of quick clarifications, the IACP voted about two months ago to join ALPA , it's already happened.

Second there is a clause regarding RJs at COEX, the limit is either 65 or 68 seats for jet aircraft. If they want COEX to fly 100 seater turbo props there's no problem but Jet aircraft above 65 or 68 seats have to be flown by mainline CAL pilots. If they could have ordered a 70-100 RJ for their COEX pilots to fly they would have ordered it years ago.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
HlywdCatft
Posts: 5232
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 6:21 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:05 pm

NW

DC-9 (when will they go?)
A318
A320
757-200
757-300
A330-200 (or was it the -300 they ordered?)
747-400
747-400LR (possible when they replace 742s)


Uhhhh, where is the A319???

 
United Airline
Posts: 8795
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:13 pm

UAL is quite unlikely to get any B 737NGs. However, the B 757-200 is serving UAL VERY well since this is a very reliable plane, they may go for more in the future. UAL is moving towards an all Airbus Fleet for aircraft that are smaller than the B 757 and an all Boeing Fleet for aircraft that are larger than the B 757.

When it comes to a point that UAL's B 762s need to be replaced, they may order a mixture of B 767-300ERs as well as a few B 767-400ERs. The B 767-400ER fits in perfectly into UAL's fleet, since they have so many B 767s.

It is quite odd that AA will replace their A 300s with B 764ERs.

Just my thoughts.  Smile
 
Guest

HlywdCatft

Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:42 pm

hlywdCatft,

Well excuse me for making a little mistake. You can forget things after typing that much. Nobody's perfect.
 
baec777
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 5:01 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 1:07 pm

What is NWA replacing their 757s with....??

Could it be B737-900s or A321s ...??

Baec777  Smokin cool
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 1:15 pm

On par with what someone said about DL's MD-11's, they're not going anywhere anytime soon. DL does not have enough 777's on order to afford losing the MD-11s. ALso the MD-88's aren't going anywhere anytime soon either.
 
deltaflyertoo
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 2:31 pm

Actually Continental did order 737-600s back in 97. The Wall Street Journal did a HUGE piece on it and there was no mistaken that they had 737-600s as orders. Very shortly after they converted the 600s to 500s, 700s and 800/900s. They did it so fast after their initial announcement of the 600s that it is just generally assumed they never ordered them at all.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24826
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets

Thu Jun 21, 2001 2:45 pm

The A300s are staying for the long-haul. AA will mainly use them on Caribbean routes and high-capacity short/medium Latin routes that don't generate as heavy premium traffic, such as MIA-LPB-VVI and MIA-LIM. They already use them on MIA-MEX, MIA-MBJ, MIA-KIN, and MIA-SJU. You will see the A300s out of trans-Atlantic services by the end of 2002.
a.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos