Hole_Courtney
Topic Author
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 1999 12:51 am

Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 11:15 am

I would like to hear some opinions on the overall service on Southwest Airlines. Personnally I think that people are too stupid to realize that major airlines charge almost the same rate for most flights and have better service than Southwest.
"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
 
Bush
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 2:10 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 11:33 am

You're so right. (By the way, HOLE rocks!) We have the same situation in western Canada with WestJet. It's a discount airline that the idiots fly on, not realizing that both Canadian Airlines and Air Canada offer full service for the same fare. The only benefit to the discount airlines is they aren't as restrictive when it comes to advance booking periods. Wow...I'm sold.
 
Ben2
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:30 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 12:35 pm

I guess I'm an idiot then for supporting an airline that can bring airfares down and not take a loss. Selling out to "the man" is just what the majors want you to do. Besides, for the kind of flying I do, I don't need a meal. Now that I think about it, you're calling tons of people idiots, people who bring profits to this good airline(WN). It's a persons choice on who they want to fly, not your "duty" to call them idiots for doing so.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 1:30 pm

Bush hits upon one of the advantages of airlines like Southwest and WestJet, and that they aren't as restrictive when it comes to advance booking fares. This is a major advantage to business travellers, and others who must travel at the last minute without much advance notice. In addition, their walk-up fares (no advance purchase, purchased day of flight) are often lower than the majors.

Other overlooked difference is airports. While a major airline may offer similar fares to the low fare carriers out of the same airports. But out of other airports, there can be a fare difference, and often the smaller airport is more convinent. For example, I recently booked a flight from Southern California to Sacramento. Southwest and United Shuttle had similar airfares out of LAX, but WinAir was cheaper out of Long Beach. And Long Beach is also more convinent than LAX.

And the point that Ben2 makes, about supporting the airline that brings down the fares is a good one. Would Delta Express exist today if it were not for ValuJet/AirTran? Likely those same routes would be flown by Delta and Atlantic Southeast, at higher fares. The Southwest effect is real: Once Southwest enters a market, fares drop.
 
BryanG
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:59 am

Too Poor To Do Anything About It

Wed Jun 09, 1999 1:47 pm

I fly Southwest about four times a year, and never with my own money and not by choice. Their planes are dirty and their methods treat passengers like cattle. But I'd willingly fly them if they can get me where I want to go at a cheaper cost than the better airlines. On a two hour flight, I'm willing to bear the offences if it can save me $40 of my own money on a fare. The bottom line is that they're safe and dependable, even if they have less comfort than taking the bus.
 
Guest

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 1:54 pm

For the average person, planing a flight 2 months in advance, they have the option of a new Air Canada A319 or a 20 year old Westjet 737-200...

Meal vs. no meal

Comfortable seats with good pitch vs. How many people can we pack into the plane without forcing them to be in direct body contact

video entertainment vs. The "Whats that smell" guessing game

High time, pro flight crew vs. Pilots and FAs that would rather be working for Air Canada.

Definate Gate slots vs. Definate gate slot... unless Air Canada or Canadian find it inconveniant to give it to you. Oh well, people won't mind walking across the Tarmac in -20 weather...

Can you see any good reason why this person would pick Westjet if the ticket is the same price? They would have to be an IDIOT!
 
Bush
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 2:10 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 4:21 pm

Thanks, C-GAGN, for the back up. I was attacked by Ben for spelling out the truth. Lets look at this for a sec. What does a consumer look for? The lowest price and the highest quality. Right? So, if i can take a full service airline or a crapline, and the price is the same, who the hell would choose the crapline? Apparently, a 'smart' consumer in Ben's view would choose the crapline, because it's responsible for driving down prices in the first place. Well, personally, i couldnt care less who the hell is responsible for the low price. I look for the best value for my dollar, as does any intelligent consumer. Who the hell cares if i'm bowing down to anyone? I got my meal, damnit.
 
Bush
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 2:10 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 4:28 pm

One last thing. You're right, i AM calling a lot of people idiots. How many Southwest Airline passengers got onboard and sat down, pleased, and said, "I'm supporting a good airline and helping it turn a profit. Yay." Sure, some do. They're not idiots, they know what they are doing. Its the rest of the busload that sits there, totally unaware, not realizing they could be on a full service airline. They did not choose to fly on the discount airline because they 'believe' in the principle of low-cost flying. They were just unaware of the options - they were idiots.
 
AAmericanguy
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 1999 1:02 pm

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 7:35 pm

Southwest is a very good airline with good service and nice planes
 
Hole_Courtney
Topic Author
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 1999 12:51 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 9:25 pm

I am sorry for my poor excuse for words in the first post. What I was trying to say was that Southwest's procedures shock me in a very number of ways. First of all, this non-assisgned seating. The times I've flown with Southwest it has been a madrush to get to the door and inside the airplane to find a good seat. It's absolutly mad! Another thing would be the price. For WestJet its different , but for Southwest if someone makes an argument like mine, then they will not lose that many customers. Why? Becausse there will always be people in this country that believe that southwest propaganda "A Symbol of Freedom". Give me a break; sure, i would like to fly all the way from Baltimore to Las Vegas in a 737 with no meals, now thats what I call freedom.
"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
 
Guest

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 10:32 pm

My mom who is a F/A for United said that one time she was taking the crew bus across to the terminal once in LAX, and there were Southwest F/As on the bus too. My mom was talking to them (she is very social) and the SW F/As said that their passengers often are very unruly. My mom said that that's pretty odd, and the SW employee said that the United passengers probably respect the United crew more because of the image United gives out, which is professionalism. Southwest's image is "$30 ticket with crap service." Personally, I would rather pay $500 dollars or whatnot to fly United than pay $30 to fly on Southwest. To me, airlines like Southwest and AirTran, etc. with low fares and no service are designed for people who can't afford to fly a real airline like United, American, Delta.......
 
Guest

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Wed Jun 09, 1999 10:49 pm

A few points are in order here regarding Southwest Airlines.

First, SW gets credit from most industry analysts for reducing overall ticket prices in every market they serve.

Second, while the majors may match prices in those markets, they generally have more restrictions and a restricted number of seats available at SW prices. So just because someone is flying SW doesn't mean they could have purchased the same fare from a competitor.

Third, SW has one of the newest fleets in the industry and they continually win industry awards for performance, value, and customer service. While it may seem that some of their policies are a bit wacky, like no seat assignments and no meals, these are the very cost-saving measures that have allowed SW to prosper in each and every year of their entire history. So don't assume that just because you're on SW you're "slumming." There are planeloads of people who love the airline! By the way, now that SW is operating longer flights than ever before, like BWI-LAX, the snack selection has vastly improved. Still no hot meals, but they won't let you starve, either!

Lastly, let me just say that no matter what airline you love or patronize, be it SW, a major, AirTran, or even WinAir, you're not an IDIOT! Fly who you love, that's the beauty of airline competition. In my book, the only idiots are those who think everyone who doesn't think THEIR way are idiots!

jAAck

 
Guest

RE: No Seat Assignments

Thu Jun 10, 1999 2:16 am

If I had a choice between SWA and United Shuttle, I would choose the latter. No, not because I am pro-United, but because their policies are a bit better. SWA has no alliances with other airlines that I know of. United Shuttle gives seat assignments, and boards window seats first, then middle seats, then aisle seats. They also board from the rear door in addition to the front door. And, they actually have inflight service.
 
Ben2
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:30 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 2:26 am

UA#52- You're gonna have to enlighten me on what you think a "real" airlline is. Last time I checked WN offers everything a "real" airline does except a meal. Which gets to my next point, if you even get a meal on AA or UA you are damn lucky. Majors have been cutting back foodservice tremendously. If you even are priviliged enough to get a meal don't count on it being much, the industry average on food expenditures per passenger were quite low. Hey Bush, are you getting that much more of a value because you're getting a $3.00 meal? You just think you are. I could fly on a major anytime I want to, sometimes I choose WN which offers comparable service, just like everyone else. About these hoards of idiots, do you really think that they are that naive? I think not.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 3:05 am

Most people aren't willing to fork over $500 when they can get something similar for $30, at least not for a flight. On flights where Southwest is $30, you're not going to be in the air very long and United Shuttle or whomever aren't going to be much different. $30 on Southwest will get you an intra-California ticket one way (based on round trip purchase) if they're having one of their sales.

The difference between the meal service on United Shuttle and Southwest is what is in the little snack bag. On Southwest it will be peanuts, but on United Shuttle it could be peanuts, pretzles, or something else. The variety is nice, but not that big a difference.

While not having seat assignments tends to lead to a mad rush to board the aircraft, it also means less confusion on board. You don't have people trying to find their seats, figure out if a row is row 18 or 19, and then the confusion that results when some people decide to sit elsewhere, only to have the person assigned to to that seat show up.

To alleviate the mad rush phenomenon, perhaps Southwest could adopt the same model used by Hawaiian and Aloha on their interisland flights, which don't have assigned seats. At the gate two lines form, one for first class and other pre-boarded passengers, and one for general boarding. The preboards go first, and then the general boarding follows. So the first person in line gets to board first. It's not a mad rush, but maybe that's just because it's Hawaii and people tend to be more laid back there.
 
Bush
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 2:10 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 3:16 am

I'll keep this short. You're all right. The only idiots are the ones who call those who don't agree with them idiots. So, i'm a big fat idiot, and i now end my argument. What a pointless debate to get all wrapped up in. When i made those posts i was distracted, not thinking clearly, for personal reasons. I could sit here and type an essay-length response and restate exactly what i said last night, like some have done on other topics (ie - There is another side to United). Those responses are deadly boring. But my argument willl just not hold up and i would be fueling the debate and asking for responses like JAAck's. Thanks again, buddy, for letting me see the light. I AM AN IDIOT!!!
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 6:19 am

Ok, let me add my $ 0.02 and make a couple points:
Food:
I flew on a USAir 757 and got a cheap sandwich that could have come out of a vending machine. I flew on Air Tran and got peanuts. Would I really choose the big airline just for the food??

Price: Ok, lets compare. Going from New Orleans to San Jose, CA:
Southwest: 8/7 - 8/10
737-300.
1 flight - afternoon: 4hr 50 min flying plus 1 stop
total cost: $398

America West: 8/4 - 8/10
757, 727, and 737-200
choice of 3 flights, each 5 hr 31 min flying plus 2 stops
Snack (whoopee!!!)
total cost: $431

Ok, now who would you fly?
Why pay more?
If both offered the same flight on the same day, of course i would take the bigger airline. But when you can save, why not?? I am not an idiot for choosing the less expensive flights. If more people supported discount airlines there would be mroe incentive for the airlines to lower fares.

Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 4935
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

One More Example

Thu Jun 10, 1999 6:24 am

Let me add one better example.
You want to go from New Orleans to Houston, Texas.
Southwest: 737-500 jet, 1 hr. 5 min flying time
total cost: $102
Continental: 737-500 jet, 1 hr. 5 min flying time
total cost: $170

See my point?
Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
 
Bush
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 2:10 am

RE: Give It Up Already...Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 6:35 am

Yes, Bruce. I already admitted that it was me who was the idiot. You're not an idiot for saving money. Hell, everyone in the world is brilliant. Great, good, end of argument.
 
Guest

RE: One More Example

Thu Jun 10, 1999 7:10 am

I've flown both SWA and Continental between New Orleans and Houston.
The extra $68 on Continental gets you a rude flight attendant and usually late for your business meeting.
 
L1011
Posts: 2141
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:02 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 7:17 am

A couple of years ago I decided to fly from Baltimore to Chicago. The US Airways fare was the same as the Southwest fare, so I decided to go one way on each carrier. The US Airways DC-9 went to O'Hare, was not crowded, and had a very good snack. My return flight was on a Southwest 737-300 from Midway, and although there was no snack, flight attendants were enthusiastic and seemed to enjoy their passengers. The seat pitch was almost the same as US Airways', and the plane was clean. I thoroughly enjoyed both flights. I have flown on Southwest several other times, and all of their flights were enjoyable. Both US Airways and Southwest have their plusses and minuses.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA
Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
 
Boeing727
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 7:52 am

Since we are on the topic. I am going from Louisville to SanDiego in July and looked @ all my options. Of course SouthWest, I thought would be my #1 choice, because of their prices. SW offers a $33 ticket from Louisville to Midway (one way) and everybody here in town knows that SW is the best airline in terms of price. But when I looked up my ticket to SanDiego SW prices were $105 more expensive than AA (surprise, indeed!!!). Although it is generally a rule that SW are cheaper than the majors, I made the discovery that this is not always the rule.

Anyway, I will fly SW for the first time in my life in July to Chicago, it will be a thrill, "I am pretty sure",


Later, Boeing727
 
Guest

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 7:53 am

Hey, Bush, I'll take back my idiot comment since you're playing nice now. ;) We all get passionate from time to time. See you around.

jAAck
 
AirwaysDC9
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 11:30 am

MetroThreat

Thu Jun 10, 1999 8:07 am

I think Southwest may have to change their plans for East Coast Expansion. MetroJet is here to stay.
 
Bush
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 2:10 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 8:11 am

Thanks JAAck, really i did get wound up over nothing. Sorry to all i offended.
 
Ben2
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:30 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 9:27 am

No harm no foul, it's cool. Sorry if I got out of hand.
 
Hole_Courtney
Topic Author
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 1999 12:51 am

RE: Southwest-Worth The Fare Or Not

Thu Jun 10, 1999 11:52 am

While many users here are apologizing, I might as well too. Sorry for providing a topic that started out in a very negaitve manner, I never intended it to get this harsh. (by the way to bush-man, they kick some heavy ass too)
"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
 
Guest

Listen Up Everyone!

Thu Jun 10, 1999 11:55 am

Southwest is successful, not because they offer low fares, but:

1)They have a very good ontime rate. Business pax LOVE that, therefore generating $ for Southwest.
2)Employees are really friendly. Southwest has an employee loyalty program with its emps that keep them happy.
3)737-700 <----- Very neat aircraft!

If you want food, you can always pack it yourself, and if you want an "in-flight food service experience", you can always give your packed food to a SW F/A, and they will be happy to serve it to you while they serve drinks.

BTW, if you want to fly on a clean Southwest plane, take the early morning flights!
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

RE: Listen Up Everyone!

Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:36 am

This is in positive response to FirstClass!:

You have put forth three excellent pieces of evidence as to why Southwest is successful. The ontime rate generates more $$ for SW because it can turn its planes around in 25 mins or less where as other airlines usually take 45 min.-1 hour. By creating such a quick turnaround, SW can put in another 1-3 flights a day! This is economics.

Furthermore, Southwest is NOT a carrier for people who cannot afford to pay a higher price. It's not fair to say who can and cannot pay a certain airfare. I could very well pay $400 to fly DA or AA to Florida, but I have grown a liking to Southwest's flying and business philosophies. Many times, I find that some carriers are too business like for me and Southwest FA's create a very friendly and less tense environment. Granted, SOMETIMES, I feel that I want some element of 'seriousness' if you will, but SW FA's are still and always will be professional, in their own way.

In addition, airline choice does have to do with location. I may be reiteratining somethings here, but I haven't the time to read through all the messages. I'm from Providence, RI, a smaller busy airport since having been remodeled. SW came into PVD under the condition that the new terminal be built. The thing with SW coming into PVD is that they create a whole new market. In comparison, Boston (1 hr away) is so much more expensive. Even for the common carriers (AA, CO, UA, DA, US, NW), PVD is much cheaper. People are willing to drive the 1-1.5 hours (even from Maine!) to save $150 on a plane ticket. And none of this would have happened if it were not for Southwest. What Southwest has done for Providence is a very good economics lesson in airfare wars and competition.

Obviously, there are millions of people out there who like SW, otherwise, they would not be creating as much competition and fare wars in the airline industry.
Bonjour Chef!
 
william
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

The One Thing That Saves The Other Majors

Fri Jun 11, 1999 1:10 am

I live in Texas,the home state of SWA,and some would say the unofficial airline of Texas. The one thing that saves the majors from the SWA,is SWA stubbornness. They know(as reported in Airtransport world sometime back)people want reserved seating,but they will not institute reserve seating,because of cost and time. Most frequent flyers,like me,want to know in advance,and choose there seat. Has anyone on this board actually flown SWA? Has anyone been part of the "cattle call"at boarding time,it makes taking Greyhound look descent. One thread hit right on the head,it comes down to professionalism. But I glad that there is SWA,they do keep downward price pressure on the airlines,and provide a perfect example of you get what you pay for.

But they must be something right,they are successful.
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Bush

Fri Jun 11, 1999 5:52 am

Bush...

NO...you're not an idiot. Just quote me, ex: "retard".[haha]

FLY777UAL

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos