DeltaAir
Topic Author
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 12:18 am

Until further notice all Boeing 777-200IGW orders have been deffered until an agreement between the Pilots Association can be met. Only 4 777's will be in operation. Boeing and the Pilots could not guarentee that the 777's would be in operation on Delta's winter sechedule. The base salary for a Delta 777 pilot is 298,000 a year, highest in the world and 26% higher then United 777 pilots.
 
Guest

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 2:12 am

To see the official press release on Delta's website, click here.

"The airline will market its 777 fleet, including two aircraft already in operation."

If you read "between the lines", this statement sounds like they are putting the two 777s already delivered up for sale.
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 2:18 am

I thought that DL cancelled the orders a long time ago...replacing them with new 767-300's.

FLY777UAL
 
Guest

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 3:32 am

I wonder who will get at them first AA,BA? Maybe Airtran will take up a couple of theose orders...............He...He...He.

Lance
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

Wow Nelly. Lets Look At Those Income Figures !

Sat Jun 12, 1999 3:57 am

According to the contract signed on 5/1/96 Delta's 30 year captains on the MD/11 were making $ 15,790 per month on a 75-83 Hour per month guarantee.

If one does the math the income comes out to be $189,480 per year for the minimum guarantee.

A United 777 30 year captain makes 14,621 per month. Which is 1315.00 less than a 747 captain who makes 15,936 per month, or 191,232 per year.

And your gonna try to tell me that a 777 captain is going to make more than a 747 captain? Well here are the numbers. The highest paid pilots in the business fly for United.

Check your source on this info.
 
DeltaAir
Topic Author
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

I Have My Sources

Sat Jun 12, 1999 4:47 am

In a press release it is stated that Delta 777 pilots make 298,000. Get your facts straight and if you want the site you can e-mail me.
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: I Have My Sources

Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:00 am

Whoa there! Let's not get TOO nasty, DeltaAir! Those pilots should shut their holes, and be happy with the 223,385 that DL is offering them! I don't see why they want the 298,546...it's not as if they actually SPEND their money...ie: NEWSPAPERS!!

FLY777UAL
 
United777
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 8:04 am

RE: I Have My Sources

Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:11 am

Delta AirLines was planning for a long time to cancel orders for the Boeing 777-200. The airline is planning to use the 767-400 for routes the 777-200 was to be flown on.
 
ken4556
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:28 am

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 5:32 am

Does anyone have information on the performance of the 777's for Delta? Does Delta have problems with the plans performance?

I personally think Delta is forgetting a big point, Passenger preference. I would rather travel on a 777 then a 767 any day of the week. Most of my business travel is in economy and the 777's are, to me, much more comfortable.

With UAl, CAL, and AA flying them, it will be interesting if Delta will be competative with 767.

Thanks,

Ken
 
Guest

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 6:13 am

I think this is going to be a real drawback in Delta's fleet renewal/upgrade policy. As much as I love the 767-300ER, they are only confortable for only East Cost-Europe distances. When the flying time increases to 9-10 hours (JFK-Istanbul that I frequently take), you feel the need of either the 777 or A330/340....
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 6:22 am

Like the other posts say, buying lots of 767s will really hurt Delta. It's old technology, they're MUCH slower than a 777, and the value of the fleet will depreciate faster than 777s would. Delta are just SO conservative (look at their new colours). In many ways it has served them extremely well (slow and steady wins the race etc), they're getting very parochial when everyone else is getting radical with fleet renewals and alliances. It's funny how some companies take on the role of smaller companies they swallow up, like Boeing (having taken over McDD) are now playing the role to Airbus that McDD always played to the mighty Boeing. And Delta are becoming Pan Am.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

Might Delta Get 2nd Hand MD-11s?

Sat Jun 12, 1999 6:28 am

Is the production line down just yet? Why not aquire 2nd hand MD-11s if they cannot work it out with their pilots? I have heard that unlike other carriers, They are not going to be tossing out their MD-11s as soon as they can be replaced and would be holding on to them for a while even when many of the 777s were to have been in service. MD-11s are hardly old at all. AA should convert theirs into freighters and start expanded Cargo services instead of selling to FDX. If they fail to break the impass with their pilots they will be stuck with them and will need more to expand. Better get them before FDX has them all.

P.S. Is KLM getting 777s or airbus widebodies or are they not in the market for any widebody jets?

Lance
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

These Are The Facts

Sat Jun 12, 1999 7:10 am

I'm not in the business of arguing with little boys still in grade school. My source is the Air Inc. U.S. Salary Survey and Carrer Earnings Comparison. It is the actual Delta pay scale.

Post your source. I don't need to E-mail you for that.

Instead of comming to the forum to tell people who know better, you should come here to learn. Your source is bogus.

 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

Pilots And $$$

Sat Jun 12, 1999 7:30 am

This whole deal with the deferments/canellations of the 777 is kind of outrageous. If I were a DA
pilot, I'd be thrilled to be flying the 777 at ANY PRICE. Granted, more money is always nice, but
if one is a pilot, one should be doing it because one likes the airline industry and flying
planes!

Also, in my opinion, the 767-300 is NO MATCH for the 777...in fact, I think they're kind of
boring. Why defer/cancel such a beautiful and technologically advanced aircraft like the 777!?!?
Just because your pilots want more money? Gee, who's to blame for that one?
Bonjour Chef!
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Jetpilot

Sat Jun 12, 1999 7:37 am

source for this is:

Yahoo News, derived DIRECTLY from DL's press release.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990611/ga_delta_a_1.html

FLY777UAL
 
flpuck6
Posts: 2047
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 1999 12:32 am

Notice To All Of You

Sat Jun 12, 1999 8:17 am

To all of those who seem to be disagreeing: please visit the NEWS section of airliners.net and read the article: (here's the pertinent portion)

Delta said it remains committed to paying its 777 pilots the highest rate
in the industry and expressed disappointment that an agreement has not been
reached. Delta is offering its 777 pilots an industry-leading rate, five
percent above American Airlines' rate (currently highest in the industry),
25 percent higher than United's and 26 percent higher than Continental's.
ALPA's current demand represents a rate 40 percent higher than American's.
Delta's current best-in-the-airline-industry pay offer is $238.66 per hour for
a 777 captain. A captain flying 78 hours per month (average limit of flight
pay) would earn $223,385 base salary annually under Delta's proposal. ALPA's
current demand of $318.96 per hour for captains equates to an annual base
income of $298,546. In addition, the union's work rule demands would require
37 percent more 777 pilots, said the company.
Bonjour Chef!
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

777UAL

Sat Jun 12, 1999 8:40 am

The statement reads that the pay rate which you are reffering to was a propposed rate which was of course was not agreed upon. That would be outlandish.

The Delta 777 pilots make 223,385 per year per minimum.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

They Deserve The $$$$$$$

Sat Jun 12, 1999 11:24 am

Guys, think for just a sec what the hell you've gotta do to be a delta pilot. After all everything one goes through, i think they deserve the dollars. Just look how much money successful lawyers and dentists earn. Why should pilots not do well to. And as for the comments about 767s, well, most people are not planes nuts, and, wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 767 or 777. For them, its just a plane. And, weather we like it or not, they are the bulk majority of the customers. If delta can't afford it, well, why not use the Boeing 747-400, and sell a few more seats. If they are 'such' a great airline, they shouldn't have any trouble selling they're seats.
and if it were my airline, i would have a de-unionised workforce. I have never heard of such problems at southwest! Delta's problem here is its competitors are companies like British Airways. They get the traveling publics first preference and can fill up 747s with ease. An extra hundred or more people does make it just that little bit easier to pay for expensive crew.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sat Jun 12, 1999 8:22 pm

Most pasengers aren't plane enuts and can't tell the difference between a 767 and 777 from the boarding lounge, it's true. But they can tell the difference between an uncomfortable 80s cabin and a comfortable 21st century one. And they tend to notice when one airline's flights take an hour longer than the competitors'. I personally would go out of my way to avoid the 767 (on long haul or international flights), not because it's unsafe (there's no a/c type I would avoid on the grounds of safety) but because it is slow, boring, out-of-date and Delta are showing a breaktaking lack of imagination by cancelling the 777. They WILL pay, though.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Hole_Courtney
Posts: 549
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 1999 12:51 am

RE: These Are The Facts

Sun Jun 13, 1999 3:51 am

I'm sorry, but you don't have to be such a dick about talking to someone younger than you are. Maybe he was wrong, but that gives you no right to insult him for his age! Sorry for a bit of colourful language, this is supposed to be "fun", not putting down people for thier age; again, don't be a dick.
"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
 
william
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Cedarjet

Sun Jun 13, 1999 6:02 am

If I understand you correctly,you saying you rather fly 2+5+2 777,than 2+3+2 767? Would your opinion be the same if you had to sit in the middle of 5 rows of seats? Just wondering.

I wish airlines would fly more 767,instead of its cousin the 757(overstretch 737 interior). Again my opinion comes from being a frequent flyer and aviation enthusiast.

Today in the Dallas herald,in the business section,it stated that Delta will put the 777's it already owns(2 or 4,I think)on the market. And will put the rest of the 777's it will recieve this year on the market. So if you 140 million laying around give the guys in Atlanta a call.

Reason for the change in aircraft operations were do the inability to come to an agreement with the Pilot's Union.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Serves Them Right!

Sun Jun 13, 1999 7:30 am

Well, i have to say it serves them all right. Look at what this has come to - Delta can not chose to operate a great aircraft, full of advances over its tristars, because of a holier-than-thau attitude. Look at all the nonsence that seems to be going on a delta. Why, do they think they deserve the highest 777pay rates in the industry. Why do they feel that the 777 deserves more pay than an MD-11??? Capacity is about the same? If this is how delta is going to be run, they are going to be in for some very turbulante times ahead. Look at what is happaning to cathay pacific at the moment? Those guys are not going to have their jobs if they continue to be 'sick' for to much longer. If i were CEO of delta, i would risk everybody striking, i'd get a few f/os that had been on 737s or 727s or something for a couple of years, i'd premote them to captains and give them the same as the MD-11 wages. I am sure they'd do it! And Let the other guys loose their rank over this. I am not saying that they don't deserve high wages, but they have gone too far when the airlines deciedes it won't operate the plane. So, maybe somebody else like SIA that uses trent powered 777s will step in and get a great deal. They won't sell them for a 140 or so million, it will be substancially lower, those aircraft lost value the moment they left Seattle. Maybe this is Qantas' chance to get 777s. They decided it was cheaper to buy used 747-400s instead last time. Still, this should be the most heated topic in aviation.
 
Guest

Maybe Delta Will Auction Off Their 777s

Sun Jun 13, 1999 7:42 am

Maybe Delta will put them on eBAY. he...he...he

Lance
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Delta 777 Orders Are All Cancelled

Sun Jun 13, 1999 8:31 am

As for the 767 - 777 argument, I would say that I still prefer the middle seat in a row of 5 on a 777, because the plane is simply more comfortable and space-age (man). I've done the middle seat on the 767 which is probably better for getting to the loo but it IS slower and a bit old-hat. I did SF-London in the middle of 5 in a 777 and it was great, seatback TV, I don't tend to go to the loo on planes and on that flight I just slept in a nice comfortable seat. The thing is that the 767 was designed for 2-3-2 whereas the 777 was designed for 3-4-3 so 2-5-2 is a wider seat than on the 767. The 777 is just a nice plane. It's the future baby, as Austin Powers would say. I like 757 actually. I wouldn't buy them now if I was CEO of A. N. Other Airline, but it's great to fly in, fantastic amount of power and climb. I know what you mean about being a stretched 737 but it's not really, more of shrunken 767, whereas the new 737NG really ARE stretched 737s, and as out of date compared to A320 as the 767-400 is to the A330. Luckily Boeing have a great competitor in the wide-body big twin stakes and Delta are committing corporate suicide by ignoring it.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Gnomon
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 12:38 pm

RE: These Are The Facts

Mon Jun 14, 1999 11:01 am

I believe this topic was begun with express regard to the disposition of Delta's Boeing 777s. Accordingly, I am not convinced that further discussion in said regard in any way warranted the eloquent Hole_Courtney's rather impassioned defense of individuals of our age group. I am 18 years old, a pilot, and in the same age group as Hole_Courtney, but I do not in any way see that JETPILOT's response to the erroneous remarks of the younger boy were faulty. It seems that the young guy in question simply mis-read a press release filled with several confusing facts, and JETPILOT corrected that individual when the former spouted off to the latter about getting facts straight. In layman's terms, Hole_Courtney, let's at least PRETEND like we're real "grown-ups", ok?, and let's not be so sensitive when someone who was probably not competent to read a financially related press release was and got corrected but took offense when he was corrected. You're trying to get your foot in the water, but you're going in head-first instead. Just grow up and talk about Delta's 777s if you wanna make a further post. I think that's what the rest of us were talking about anyway. Posts like this just piss me off. (I must, however, congratulate Hole_Courtney on his/her diction. Quite impressive!)
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

I Think Gnomon Just Opened A Can Of Whoop Ass (nt)

Mon Jun 14, 1999 11:12 am

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twa747100
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:16 am

TWA And 777

Mon Jun 14, 1999 11:42 am

twa may pick up th orders but maybe they willnt anyone here about this tell me please
 
william
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Whats The 777 Backlog?

Mon Jun 14, 1999 11:59 am

I do not know the backlog of this aircraft,but I think it is over 100. So thats atleast 100 customers who want their planes. I do not think Boeing will have a hard time finding a home for Delta's 777. But as been posted someplace else,I do think Delta really does not want the 777s,but are really looking forward to their 767-400s.

I am surprised that Boeing does not have a freight version of this plane yet,unless they are trying to protect the 747-400 freighter line. Could a 777 carry more freight payload than a MD11? (I am sure FEDEX might be interested).