Guest

Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:46 am

I wonder if anyone could give me some info?
I shall be flying to Thailand from the UK...in a couple
of weeks, but by what people have been telling me i
shall be lucky to get there in 1 piece  Sad hehe
How safe are Aeroflot?...and what am i likely to be
flying on? a modern jet airliner i hope  Smile
thx for your time
jb
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 3:16 am

You will be safe, don't worry.

If you are transfering via Shermetovo - keep cash reserve in the case of missing connection at SVO, because if you do, you will be on your own in regard to hotel accomodation. Keep in mind that you will have to declare the ammount of cash you have with you; they'll take it away and fine you on exit if they find you have more than what you notified them!

Also, don't carry any alcohol because it is very likely that it will be taken away from you even on transfer.

Well, let us know how it goes.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 3:47 am

Aeroflot is fully capable of bringing you safely to your destination and back.

If they are allowed to do that!!!

When there is an alternative, then I would think twice before choosing what is considered the flag carrier of a country in the middle of a civil war. In the Caucasus region there are people who are desparate enough to worry less about your safety than you do. And who blow up things at random.

But if they hit Aeroflot, then they will most likely hit a domestic plane carrying few non-Russian pax in order not to spoil whatever goodwill they might enjoy abroad.

Terrorism is by far the greatest safety risk. But so far it hasn't hit Aeroflot, only other Russian airlines. Be prepared that the security checks may be more hefty than you are used to, and be glad that they are.

Have a pleasant journey.

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

This Topic Again?

Thu Jul 12, 2001 4:20 am

I am really getting tired of this topic coming up.

KUGN- How many times have you been searched at SVO? I have been there 6 times in the past few years and never had my bags opened.

Prebennorholm- Can you list the Russian ( non-Aeroflot) airliners that have been downed by terrorists?

Aeroflot is a fine airline, better I'd say then some of the western ones. Don't get all worked up into that "if its Russian it must be inferior and dangerous" way of thinking. I really hope topics like this will go away in the next few years.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 4:29 am

Which currency is the best to carry in Russia? I've heard German Marks or US Dollars. But wouldn't you just be better off with Russian Roubles?
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 4:43 am

RedAirForce they might not have searched you for various reasons. The fact is that customs officers at SVO treat various nationals like dirt.

Just the yesterday, on departure SVO-FRA a passanger who happened to be an non Russuian Orthodox Priest was arrested for failing to declare $5000 and 550DM. According to the news, they have started criminal proceedings against him. (Source is not on English, but you may ask JAT to translate it for you if you care http://www.b92.net/archive/s/index.phtml?Y=2001&M=07&D=10#n006) This has not an isolated incedent.

Also, there have been many horror stories from pax arriving from Asia and continuing to third countries, about their treatment by Aeroflot personal and by customs officials at Sheremetovo 2.

You personally might get good treatment for whatever reason, but taking a step back, and looking at the picture on general level, transfer passangers still get better treatment on Western hubs, and Western airlines.

Sorry, but true, and we damn have the right to talk about all issues concerning air travel.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:09 am

Dear RedAirForce,
No downings, only hijackings. Which always carry along a downing as a potential outcome. Or at least are discomfort brought to the extreme.
I did not pick specificly on Russia. I said: "choosing what is considered the flag carrier of a country in the middle of a civil war". Sadly Aeroflot fits into that basket.

End all civil wars - or all wars in the world, and many choises will be much easier.

When talking about downings, and your user name, then only KAL-006 jumps into my mind. But that was a different historical epoch. And it was probably one of several events which created the changes.

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

This Topic Again?

Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:42 am

KUGN- So, SVO is bad because they will prosecute people who try to smuggle currency? I don't know how many damn people you interviewed to make your conclusions, and you have the damn right to discuss what you want, but try to leave "Russian barbarian" models in the past. And damn discuss what you damn well want to. But I'll give my opinion when i damn want to also.But the "saftey of Russian airlines", etc. has been beaten to death in this forum.

Prennorholm - I fail to see what KAL 007 ( not 006) has to do with any modern commanalities with Aeroflot safety. And as for Russia being in the middle of a civil war, i think you need to rethink that position. Russia has a conflict in a small area of the nation. This is not the same situation as 1917-1924; to call both civil wars is not accurate.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:43 am

To add to KUHN's horror stories, I have heard of many people who have passed SVO without incident.

But once my cousin and her husband - grandparents in their fifties - attended a football (am: socker) match in Moscow against their native country Denmark. There were of course several hundred, maybe thousands, Danish spectators on charter flights to SVO for that match.

Upon departure from SVO a few hundred of them got locked up in one large room, with the excuse that their passports had to be scrutinized.

No service, not even a toilet. Knocking or kicking on the doors created no responce whatsoever. People - children, parents and grandparents - had to do what they had to do in the corners of the room. No indication about how long time it would last. It suddenly ended after three and a half hours. They got their passports and boarded their plane.

Even if such events may be rare, then the thoughts which create them are so far from the business class lounges and such, which we take for granted, that we are simply unable to relate to it.

But this has of course nothing with Aeroflot to do. And certainly not the new Aeroflot.

Anyway it is really strange - like landing on another planet, isn't it?

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Guest

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:55 am

ok guys!!!!!  Smile
Sorry to hit on such a "touchy " subject, i feel a little
easier...i think  Smile
It was stupid of me to think that...the 4th largest
airline in the world, would not implement a certain
degree of safety....my worries were more concerning
their maintenance record  Sad
They do have 1 don`t they?
Lets say...i would feel better knowing i was going
on a "777" or Iylusin 96.....than 1 of those Tupelovs..
or whatever their called  Big grin lol
thx for your time again chaps
jb
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 6:16 am

RedAirForce: "This is not the same situation as 1917-1924; to call both civil wars is not accurate.

During the 1917-1924 civil war millions were killed.
During the 1995-? civil war thousands have been killed.
The fact that a civil war seems a thousand times smaller i terms of casualty tally doesn't mean that we can ignore it. Especially not when it creates hijackings and we want to fly on airliners.

End all wars, and many choises will be much easier. This is a fact. I (and my native ancestors) have 153 years experience. And we are not going to act stupidly again. We have learned our lessons from our history.

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

This Topic Again?

Thu Jul 12, 2001 6:21 am

Prebennorholm - Yes, Russia is just like landing on another planet! You really know your 'Rodina'. How many times have you been over? Must be many more then me since you know it so well..... The only place I have ever been searched is in Scandinavia by very polite, but stressed out, SAS persons.Its amazing how many of these horror stories, as you call them, are second hand, i.e., "I heard..." or "I was told..." etc.

Johnboy1- Perhaps you should do a little research before posting questions about "Tupelovs or whetever their called". Andrei Tupolev was one of the finest AC designers ever, producing AC for many years before we were born.

What upsets me is that you post with no background knowledge at all, and are just basing your fears on old models of Russians set up during the cold war. Russia is trying to get those old ideas outof the heads of westerners; difficult to do when people just make old assumptions. It would be like flying to Australia and being scared because you think all Australians are criminals; or flying Aer Lingus and assuming it would be full of booze because, after all, you know the Irish.... Old ideas die hard.



 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 6:27 am

PN- I am not saying to ignore Chechnya, but it is not a civil war. A civil war splits a nation, more or less, in two. Chechnya is a domestic disturbance. A serious one, yes, but nowhere akin to the real Russian civil war of 1917-1924 9 not that this is a real approptiate topic for this forum). yes, there has been air piracy, but there has been this type of activity in many countries without internal conflict. Hijackings do not mean there is a civil war; just too great of a leap of terminology.
 
Guest

RE: This Topic Again?

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:15 am

Ooops sorry 2 offend u Red
I admit my homework was "Bad" to say the least.
Yeah its true that old habits die hard " skoda "
as an example....much better these days, my backround on Tupelovs was based on ignorence...
my apologises  Smile
To be quite honest...i would sooner fly on an Iylusin 96
than on an airbus A310...but is my homework letting
me down again?
jb
 
OH-LZA
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:21 am

The cash declaration is not only a SVO thing, also on all land border-crossing points evrybody older than 16 needs to fill a customs declaration, you even have to declare your cellphone there!

Zulu Alpha
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:29 am

To answer the original question, most likely you will be on the IL-96. It is a very modern and safe aircraft.
Read more about it in the 'Aircraft Data & History' section.

Enjoy your flight!
Bring back the Concorde
 
rw774477
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 4:15 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:29 am

Isn't the Topic an oxymoron ?  Big thumbs up

rw774477
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Johnboy1

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:29 am

Dear Johnboy1, I wish you a pleasant trip. Now you should be well prepared.

One thing which you won't see, however, is RedAirForce and me agreeing upon the importance of the Chechenya conflict, now and in the future. What I see as a terrible cancer on Russia's belly, RedAirForce sees as something smaller. Only future will tell who is right, and even if I don't believe it, then I certainly hope that he is right. But 99.99....% sure this has no relevance to your trip to Thailand.

Just one more piece of info: Should you choose to make a stopover at SVO, then be prepared that the Russian people generally are among the kindest and most generous people in the world.

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:35 am

Too much passion do we put into russian related topics, don't we? I wonder why is it allways this way.

The fact that I need to declare cash value I care would make me think twice about using that country as transfer point. The treatment foreigners get at SVO is substandard, and no heated argument will change such facts or sentiments. True, it takes years to change impressions on global level, but that is the way things are.

Do I think of someone carrying $5000 being a smuggler? No. Countries like Russia could use their resources to catch much bigger and important fish to fry, rather than intimidate foreign tourists or transfer pax on their way out. Such experiances stay around for very good reason.

And finally, hijakings don't necessarely mean there is a civil war, but in countries with civil war they are much more likely to happen.
 
HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 8:01 am

Actually, if you're carrying more than $10,000 in cash into the United States, you must declare it when going through customs as well. There is an amount you're required to declare in almost every country in the world.

If it makes a difference, my worst customs experience was at LGW.
 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 9:22 am

KUGN wrote:
" The treatment foreigners get at SVO is substandard, and no heated argument will change such facts..."

No, that is your opinion. I disagree. Opinons are not facts.

You have to declare cash value in most countries, a fact ( not an opinion, just to show you the difference) pointed out by other posters to this thread. Why is Russia more vigilant about this rule? Well, the economic situation there is more severe then in other European nations and the movement of cash of more importance. Thus, yes, for Russia, trying to illegally bring in or out $5000 in cash, is a major crime. You think that people get poor treatment at SVO? Well, if they are breaking the law they deserve it! My friend was held at SVO for 7 hours back in 1999. But he deserved it as he was trying to leave with some WWII medals.
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 9:37 am

RedForce, what about Prebennorholm's cosins - what was their crime? That is only one of the examples of poor, substandard treatment that random passangers might receive at SVO? Those people, like many others were kept for three hours just because some uniformed personal felt like that on that day.

When things like that happen, you get snowball effects of horror stories. The ones that had hard time because they broke the law get bundled with these who just had bad luck to get mistreated.

And that is fact.

Transfer pax at SVO get poor treatment by officials in contrast with treatment transfer pax get at Frankfurt, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Heathrow, etc.

This has nothing to do with Aeroflot, but if Aeroflot really cared, they'd mount some pressure for changes. This is not enviroment to grow business of transferring hard currency paying passangers.
 
kevin
Posts: 1019
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:03 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 1:40 pm

Just to let you know:

When you arrive at SVO you are given a Customs declaration which says:

Pople who give wrong info about their assets (which are necessary to declare) will be prosecuted. So this is no surprise that that priest got cought.

KUGN:

I was flying through SVO on Aeroflot and there was a problem with the aircraft. All the passengers got thair accomodation at Novotel hotel at the airport.

As for the Sheremetyevo customs, they got their "black" glory at the time when hundreds thousands Jews were leaving to Israel. At that time I have to admit horrible things happened at the customs. As for now I guess everything will go smooth.
Just fill everything into the declaration
:your watch, CD player, jewellery and all other things that have value.

Johnboy: you will surely get there at one piece. However it will be funny if you ...
 
ben
Posts: 1369
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 1999 9:27 pm

Let's Examine Some Facts...

Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:56 pm

It is the responsibility of every person visiting a foreign country to understand the
laws and customs of that country. If you break the law, you will be punished according to
those laws. If there is a law about currency in Russia, obey it! You expect Russian people
to obey the laws of your country.

Hundreds of people every day travel through Thailand, Singapore, Dubai etc. on their way
from Europe to Australia. Nobody seems to think it strange that if you are found with a
certain type of fine, white powder, you are likely to be given a "Mandatory death sentence"
as is stated in those little cards the cabin staff hand out before landing....

No such barbaric punishment in Russia.

Hijacking?? You always bring that one up, Preben! Let's just say that the goold ol' land
of the brave and home of the free U.S.of.A has about a thousand times more (and more
well equiped) enemies than Russia. The recent hijacking of the Vnukovo TU5 was 100% the
fault of Istanbul Airport. Don't fly to Asia with Turkish Airlines via IST, hey??

I simply can't believe the absolute lack of substance in the anti-Russian argument!

I have travelled extensively in the former USSR and Eastern Europe, aswell as many other
parts of the world and I have *NEVER* had a bad experience travelling to the East. (That
is 101 flight-segments and 33 separate trips). However, I have been treated like a piece
of self-loading-cargo and worse in Paris CDG, Philadelphia and Amsterdam just to name a
few. Telling the customs officials at Philadelphia: "I'm only here from London for one day
to go to a party" is the same as saying "I'm Osama Bin Laden and I have a present for you".

Let's hope you will be travelling on a lovely new IL-96! It's a modern, safe, comforable
and reliable aircraft. By the way, those Tupolev things or whatever you call them are rather
nice too. Just about as outdated as some 727s flying quite legitimately on the 'other side'.

What makes something a 'classic' or just a 'piece of junk' depends on your brainwashing.

 
Guest

RE: Let's Examine Some Facts...

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:28 pm

Ben

I think it is high time that you drop your attitude on this issue and stop bringing up facts to support your argument. It doesn't make it quite as interesting as to hear the uninformed childish arguments as what other people have presented.

And I am in agreeance with what you say about Preben. For the most part his arguments have some relevance, except when it comes to Russia and the so-called civil war. Preben...when was the last time an airliner was hijacked in Moscow by Chechen rebels or sympathisers. From my memory, the most recent events have been the responsibility of foreign authorities, or the events have occurred in Dagestan; a small republic which borders Chechnya, and is being destabilised by the Chechen terrorists.

You have more chance of having an in-flight incident after the English soccer fans leave Denmark, than what you will in flying within Russia.

Heya Ben....look out in your email in the next day. Have been snowed under with email and am slowly getting to them.
 
rajno1
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 10:17 pm

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:50 pm

What's the difference between Aeroflot and a scud missile?

Aeroflot kills more people......




Was that childish enough for you?  Acting devilish


 
il-96lover
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 5:44 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:59 pm

Correct me if I´m wrong, but afaik you dont´t even need a customs
decleration when you are only changing planes at SVO.
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 9:06 pm

As a point of refference, when I used LHR, AMS, FRA and MUN I did not have to fill any declarations, as I stayed in international area; in Copenhagen I did, because I stayed in hotel.

From my understanding, when you switch aircrafts at SVO, you have to pass thru customs. That is only one example, how the necessary unconveniances for transfer passanger start.


KEVIN: Re Aeroflot, recently I've heard a story from a passanger from Australia who chose to travel by Aeroflot (instead of Qantas or Singapore, hoping to save couple of hundreds of bucks), and who missed connection at SVO by no his fault - the arrival was late - and was, along with everyone else left to his own devices about finding the hotel accomodation. In addition, he has been hasseled thru customs, and taken away whiskey he had no intention brining into Russia. This has happened only couple of months ago. The guy was a russophile, and he ended the trip with completely different impression of being hasseled and ripped of, just because they had a chance to do so.
 
il-96lover
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri May 04, 2001 5:44 am

RE: Kugn

Thu Jul 12, 2001 9:53 pm

KUGN:

No, if you switch Aircrafts in SVO 2 from one international flight to another international flight you don´t have to go thru customs as anywhere else.

Last Summer you didn´t need any decleration form until you didn´t bring
more than USD 500.- in or out. Nobody there was interested in this
piece of paper.
 
KUGN
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 4:36 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Thu Jul 12, 2001 10:28 pm

Ok, that explains things a bit. Thanks for the info.

$500 is still pretty low, but there is no point arguing the law of the land here. It still makes me uncomfortable to declare ammount of cash I'm bringing into country, because who knows who can get hold of that information.

At any rate transfer pax who for whatever reason miss their connection and have to leave intl area need to be aware of these stringent rules.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Fri Jul 13, 2001 3:55 am

We compare rules and such. There are certain rules all over which must be obeyed to.

The big difference is the attitude when rules are broken, not because people are criminals, but because they make fauls or are just too lazy to learn the rules.

If you end up having broken declaration rules in, say, Munich, Rome, Philadelphia, or Copenhagen, then the officials will tell you what you made wrong. And they will tell you that you should not do that again. And if they are busy, and they most often are, then they may not use very polite words. That's one attitude.

When a man fails to declare $5k, gets prosecuted and ends up in the jailhouse, then that's one attitude. A very different attitude, one which should belong to another planet only.

Ben wrote: If you break the law, you will be punished according to those laws. That's some simplistic B***S*** in this case. Jailhouses are for criminals, not for preasts or any other persons who accidentally or by lazyness fail to fill in documents properly.

Ben also compares to "carrying certain white powders" through certain southern countries. The comparison is irrelevant since when you do that you are a criminal. Anyway I am against capital punishment - to take away life only shows off the weaknesses of the authorities who do that.

We shall not compare Russia the the least civilized countries, but to the most civilized countries, in order to identify where they still need to catch up.

Anyway, if in some countries some of the worlds worst criminals lose the head, while other countries let them rotten for twenty years in jail, that's no big deal, and nothing which would change my travel routes. Neither would it change many points on the scale on which I measure civilized countries.

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Fri Jul 13, 2001 4:09 am

Even if you transfer from SVO1 to SVO2 you don't have to pass the customs - at least, I didn't during my trip to the former USSR a year ago (as I wrote here several times, despite the two terminals have no direct connection, a special bus was provided that transferred people from SVO1 to SVO2 inside the airfield, without crossing the Russian passport control). No declarations, no checks (except, of course, security). I have though many things to say about people in Russia being "the kindest and most generous" to foreigners (I was considered to be a "hostile foreigner" even coming there from Latvia - I was asked quite interesting things when my documents were checked on the street), but this will be far from the topic...

...Preben, "end all wars" doesn't sound seriously. It's like "it's better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick". BTW, what do you mean by 153 years without wars? Weren't there two most terrible wars in Europe during this period? Was it enough then to say "end it"?

Regards,
RIX
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: RIX

Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:29 am

Dear RIX,
When I wrote "people in Russia being the kindest and most generous", then I should probably have been more specific and excluded officials. Some of them are, but on avarage they have a lot to catch up on.

But it is no accident that some of my closest and most respected friends are Russian.

"End all wars" - "153 years without wars". Well, you may already have noticed that when my pen is writing, then some polemic words tend to flow along.

"End all wars" is of course pure polemic. You may know that just two years ago my air force dropped bombs on Yugoslavia in formation with your air force - in order to teach people as fast as possible that they should not slaughter each other.

Counting 153 years back we reach 1848 which was the last time my country - Denmark - chose that violence was a legitimate way to "solve" internal disagreements.

Your country was a colony which gained independence. My country was the opposite, an empire which split up. When looking upon how we distributed different levels of independence to Iceland, Greenland and Faeroy Islands, then I have no reason to be specially proud. But! There are no other former "empire" on this planet who did it better, or even nearly as good. Not one single person has ever been thinking the thought, that this process, which has been going on for well over a hundred years, could ever be a valid reason for firing one single bullet.

It makes me a very fortunate person today. In just over a hundred hours from now I fly to Iceland to visit local friends. Denmark and Iceland are now two totally independent nations, one was the empire, the other one was the ill treated colony, one is EU member, the other one is not. But at the same time they are culturally and mentally the two closest nations on this planet!

Our situation was not completely equal to Russia and the Chechenya conflict of today. But there are more similarities than differences. And I am pretty convinced that the Russians could learn a great deal about solving that conflict by studying our successes - and failures - during our "de-imperializing process" since roughly 1885.

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RedAirForce
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:04 am

Prebennorholm

Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:45 am

P

You really need to get in touch with reality.

It's great when people in nations like Denmark (no offense to other Danes, but its where you hail from), which ranks behind Chicago in international importance ( that was what CNN said) tell nations like Russia, the UK, and the US how to deal with their international obligations (remember, Denmark has none, except for NATO, which might not notice if Denmark left ).


Oh, Russia should look to how Denmark dealt with its great empire...you mean those chunks of ice known as Greenland and the Faroe Islands? PA-lease.Not exactly India and South Africa! Get off your high horse. I wanted to leave this thread alone but your pompus 'know it all' attitude about how major nations should run their affairs is galling!

Oh, in what ways can Russians "catch up" to the great nations of the world like Denmark? What can you teach them? I'd love to know...

"Violence is justified in the service of mankind!"
Atilla the Hun
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6430
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Fri Jul 13, 2001 10:43 am

Dear RedAirForce, as I told Johnboy1 yesterday you and I will never agree. It hasn't changed since yesterday, I disagree with everything which you wrote in your previous post.

And yes, we can teach Russia a lot, how to organize public education, health care, how to intergrate IT into ordinary public services, how to structure justice systems and all such things. And also conflict management.

If in doubt, go to Tallinn, Riga and Vilnius and see how proud they are of what they have achieved since square one just a decade ago. Sure they did by far most of the job themselves, but they sure appreciate the guidance and assistance from the Scandinavian countries. Again Denmark was not in the lead, the heavy jobs were mainly placed on Swedish and Finnish shoulders.

But all five Nordic countries ran a co-ordinated Baltic development program. It helped a lot that all public service systems are practically equal in the Nordic countries. And never before in the history of this planet have three countries progressed from practically stone age to modern, well functioning societies in less than ten years time.

Big or small? The Baltic countries are small, but the success rate is not a question about resources. It is pure knowledge distribution, and the success rate is only dependant upon the acceptance rate in the receiving end.

But also hardware resources were put in from many countries to speed up the process. For instance first time I visited Tallinn eight years ago - by car ferry - the first thing I noticed in the harbour was 25 small size A cars. They were a gift from Herr Bundeskanzler Kohl in Bonn to be used as police cars and other public services, replacing old, smokey, military, hardly serviceable open jeeps which had got a white plastic sticker on the door telling the word "Politsei" and covering the red star.

And of course the Finnes had already moved in and set up a cell phone system so my cell phone was online even before I saw the city towers in the mist.

There is still a long way to go. Just like Russia lack money for dismantling their own old nuclear bombs, and lets the US taxpayers pay the bill, then there is no way that for instance Estonia alone can clean up the remnants of the Soviet naval base on the Paldiski Peninsula.

But as I told in the beginning, RedAirForce, I don't expect you to understand this, or accept it. You may get the same type of heathy laugh as me when I read your CNN comments about my country. Do you really watch that channel? Do you learn anything from that?

Rgds, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Turbolet
Posts: 1867
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: Aeroflot Safety

Mon Jul 16, 2001 9:22 pm

Ppl, this is getting too much for me. First of all Johnboy1: Skoda is a Czech car manufacturing plant, and apart from the fact that Czechoslovakia and USSR were "close friends" in the old days, Skoda has absolutely nothing to do with Russia or the USSR. Secondly, why do all you people criticize Russia for having its own laws which are different from those of other countries? Here in Malta where I live, bringing in ecstasy can get you in jail for 25 years. Well, it's the law - nothing you can do about that. Same with death penalty in the US: I don't disagree with it but it's the law again.
And that's to everyone, please do your homework well and do research before you post something. Otherwise the result is a forum with several badly informed users attacking each other.
-turbolet

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