TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 1:43 pm

I asked 9 pilots and my 2-year-old which was more efficient for flying over 200 people more than 1000 miles. All of the pilots agreed, it's the Tristar.

How can you argue with that?

 Smile
 
concorde1518
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 12:02 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:13 pm

Horry for my favorite, the L-1011!
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 2:14 pm

ok....
 
oxygen
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 1999 12:27 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:51 pm

GOOD !
 
trintocan
Posts: 2728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:58 pm

If you are talking about the merits of the TriStar itself then I will strongly agree. The question is, what are we comparing the TriStar to? Is it the DC10, MD11 or otherise?

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
GDB
Posts: 12678
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 5:23 pm

I've never heard a bad word about the L1011 from pilots and engineers, but it's had it's day as a pax aircaraft for major carriers.
 
fritzi
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:34 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 5:33 pm

Maybe all of the nine pilots you asked were pilots for the L1011. Is that maybe a good argument? Confused
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 10:52 pm

I agree 100% with the 9 pilots, the L-1011 is much more efiicient at flying over 200 people over 1000 miles. Than a DHC-8 at least. I really suppose, though, that the 757/767/A330A340 are more efficient than the Tristas.  Laugh out loud
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:03 pm

What does the "1011" stand for? I know the "10" in DC-10 means model 10.

I would assume the L-1011 is a good aircraft, BUT, I work at SFB where ATA just started service and their L-1011's are always spending the night for service because they need "life support" as a mechanic refers to it. Why does it need to all of this when the DC-10 just flies off without any of it like the 767s and A330s I work with?
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:04 pm

And how would you be typed for a Delta L-1011 when all other aircraft are Boeing/McD?
 
Guest

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:25 pm

Only the B757 is cheaper in terms of cents per seat mile cost than the L1011. B767, A330 and A340 are quite a bit more expensive to operate - largely due to their high capital cost and cost of maintenance (parts).

ATA's maintenance programme is a preventative one - in other words, it's preventing problems from happening. I'd imagine as well that the main problem aircraft are the longbodies with the -22B engines rather than the -524B4 powered -500s.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:33 pm

Speaking of Tristars, Portugese charter airline Yes has bought/leased (?) a 'new' L1011. The plane is a L1011-385-3 tristar 500. It comes from Delta airlines and it will be registered as CS-TMX. This wil be Yes's second tristar.
FLY Lineas Aereas won't be receiving Delta tristars.
I got this news from the dutch site: www.civilspotters.com
Attamottamotta!
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 3:20 am

9 out of 10 Dentists agree, the RB211 is better than ... a lawnmower.
 Wink/being sarcastic  Laugh out loud
 
TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 4:33 am

Guys, it was really late when I was suddenly inspired to do this post...

I meant to say that it was more efficient than a Cessna 152.

Oh well, my bad.

 Sad
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 4:46 am

DC10 all the way. The TriStar is an historical footnote, the Diesel 10 is still viable and making money.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
LuckySevens
Posts: 186
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 6:51 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 4:53 am

LOL TWA717_200:
I know it's not what you mean but the image of 200 people in a 152, all in full clown attire, is equally disturbing and amusing. I think Cessna was not referring to max passenger capacity when they named it the 152 Big grin
 
Al319
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 1999 9:05 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 6:06 am

Yet still they refuse to make an NG 1011 subjecting them to this
Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Pierre Lacombe

“atom celled…jet propelled”
 
TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 6:48 am

FDXmech, too bad your company can't afford those MD10 conversions...Looks like a bunch of otherwise usefull 10's are going to be scrapped.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:41 pm

IMHO, but learned, the L-1011 is the better aircraft than the DC-10 for routes up to 3500 miles. It is at this point that the the 10 takes over.
As for FDXMech, the only reason that the DC-10 will soldier on making money for the next 20 or so years, is that the 1011 IS a better aircraft. The airlines operating the Tristar kept it in service as long as it was making money, as did the 10 operators. Sadly, the 10 sould no longer compete against the new blood. (757/767. etc) It seems that the Tristar did quite well until this year. As for the two US carriers still flying DC10s? NW is stuck with them for years to come and CO will dispose of them as soon as possible.

BTW : I loved the DC-10
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Mon Jul 16, 2001 1:15 pm

What does the "1011" stand for?

L1011 = Late 10 of 11 times Big grin
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:31 am

TWA 717-200,
FDX intends to convert 89 DC10-10/30's to MD10-10/30's of which six have been completed and are in revenue service.

FDX cancelled 29 MD10 options.

IMissPiedmont,
Please explain how the L1011's "superiority" contributed to its early demise in relation to the DC10 continued success.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:11 am

When Lockheed engineers designed the L-1011, they did not rush it into production like MD did with their DC-10. The L-1011 was designed with safety in mind, such as having 4 hydraulic systems that were in separate areas of the aircraft rather than the 3 hydraulic lines that were side by side on the DC-10. The L-1011 had one-way shutoff valves in case of a hydraulic leak. The L-1011 also has a slat locking system that the DC-10 did not have. If DC-10 had the same items that the L-1011 had there wouldn't have been any serious accidents like the Sioux City UA Flt 232 and AA Flt 191 at O'Hare.
 
Guest

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:39 am

Eh both are great.  Big thumbs up
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: FDXmech

Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:33 pm

1) I don't recall ever saying that the L-1011 was superior to the DC-10.

2) L-1011 "early demise" as opposed to the DC-10 continued sucess? The way I see it,the major operators of the Tristar were EA (bankrupt 1.18.91), TW finally retired the type after 27 years, and DL which is just now retiring them. The fact is that without the FedEx purchase of the DC-10,(because it was available when needed due to massive fleet retirements and bankruptcies in the mid 80s), you would see an equal percentage of airframes flying 20 years from now.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Guest

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:47 pm

Hehehe....you asked you son? LOL what's he gonna know about it?? Big grin

OK, ok, perhaps economically the L-1011 wins. Yep and it's alot safer as well. BUT, aesthetically, nobody, NOBODY beats the DC-10!!!!  Big thumbs up

Aloha 737-200!!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
desertjets
Posts: 7586
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:53 pm

Hmmm, 100 Cessna 152s would cost about $2.5million... each costing about $25,000 a piece. They'd be pretty cheap to operate too... sipping 100LL at aroun 8-9gph with about 20 gallons in each plane. That's 800 gph for all those planes... still a helluva lot less than a single Tristar.

Unfortunately you can only count on a cruise speed of around 90-100 ktas with the Cessna... the Tristar can't even get off the ground on that. So Jeff, I may have to agree with your two-year old on this one... at least for trips under 100miles.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
TWA717_200
Topic Author
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:50 pm

Brad, you just filled my head with the vision of 100 Cessna 152's all lined up on final approach...  Smile

Aloha, I beg to differ: It is the Tristar that can not be beat aesthetically. If the 1011 were a woman, it would be Faith Hill. As in damn good looking and a great performer!
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:27 am

Boeing747-400,
Absolutedly right Smile

TEDSKI,
First off, I don't buy this "rushing to production" of one type versus another. Fact is, they're ALL rushed into production including the 747 at that time. They all must make delivery or else severe penalties and loss of sales will ensue.

Second, in the Sioux City accident, the severed hydraulic lines were in the area of the elevator actuators where the lines were near termination by the user system. Unless the L1011 locates its elevator actuators and related lines in a location other than standard config, (oh, I forgot, the 1011 has a stabilator) which I understand is the reason for having the fourth hyd. system.

Actually I'm not technically fluent on the 1011 as I've never worked on one, so my opinions, much like yours carry little validity.

But I will go on and ask;

Why didn't the TriStar have two independant landing gear indication systems (like the DC10) which might have spared EAL's Flt 401 accident (no need to relamp in flight).

Why did the Tristar's wing spar have a tendency to crack, this being a major structural deficiency. I actually witnessed a Delta L1011 in the mid 80's land at EWR with this happening.

IMissPiedmont,
No, I don't buy into that argument. Amongst many other reasons, The DC10 carries a much greater payload than the L1011.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Guest

FDXmech

Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:35 am

Eastern Flt 401 was caused by pilot error because flight crew was focusing on the burned out light bulb on the landing gear panel and not on their altimeter. The L-1011 has one way shutoff valves that the DC-10 was not designed with in the hydraulic lines to prevent loss of hydraulic fluid. It was after the UA Flt 232 Sioux City accident that McDonnell Douglas installed the one way shutoff valves on all DC-10s. They were standard along with a slat locking system on the MD-11.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Wed Jul 18, 2001 3:23 am

I've also talked to some pilots though who have said the L-1011 is a much better plane than DC-10, etc.

Jeff
 
DeltaBoy777
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:22 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Wed Jul 18, 2001 3:24 am

Thank you someone actually agrees with me!! See my post: L1011 Vs. MD-11 What do you think? I think the L1011 is better than some of the bigger jets, except 767 and 777. I think this because it was so efficent for so many years. And it was probably the biggest plane of it's time!!!  Smile  Smile  Smile
Thanks and Gig Em!
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1579
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: 9 Out Of 10 Agree, The L1011 Is Better

Wed Jul 18, 2001 4:26 am

The model number "1011" has some stellar connotation to it as did the "Constellations, 949, & 1049"

The Lookheed may have been over -engineered and made the techo types real happy, but the DC series were of a much more simple overall design, and thus easier to maintain, and less costly to do so. (I don't see any L-1011's going into coversions to L-2011's or some such thing)
Expect the DC-10/MD-10/MD11 to be around for a long time to come.

When they park the last Lockheed at Mohave or Victorville, the crew will probably fly home on a Boeing or Douglas built aircraft!(LOL)

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