Heinz
Topic Author
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 1:34 am

Notorious Airlines

Mon Jul 16, 2001 6:07 am

Hi everybody,
which airline, still existing or not, would you consider real notorious, and why ? (e.g. because of the number of crashes and/or pilot errors, such as Spantax).
Facts and anecdotes much appreciated...
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Mon Jul 16, 2001 6:26 am

Cubana...a few crashes etc, bad conditions on a/c etc.
However, I admit that they look as if they are improvinng slightly by replacing there aging Russian fleet with 737s leased from Panorama?? and other modern a/c. So things seem to be improving...but in the past ...well nuff said.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1698
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

Any Of The Incarnations Of Braniff

Mon Jul 16, 2001 6:31 am

Even the last one, where some 24-year-old kid bought them at fire sale, then got caught for stealing a rent-a-car. More fun than all the airlines Frank Lorenzo and Carl Icahn ever owned...
 
chepos
Posts: 5938
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Mon Jul 16, 2001 8:51 am

China Airlines has great service but their reputation for safety is down under, but hey they have been improving.
Chepos
Puerto Rico
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
trickijedi
Posts: 3201
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 4:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Mon Jul 16, 2001 10:32 am

Value Jet, man!!! Who can forget Value Jet??? Did the new Value Jet (Air Tran) ever change their call sign from Critter?
Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:50 am

Yes, the Critter callsign is dead. Long live Critter. AirTran's callsign is 'Citrus'.
 
SSTjumbo
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:09 am

For service, it's not new news that America West is notoriously bad. I'm not sure if they've improved or not.
I don't know, so this is my signature.
 
chiawei
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 9:07 am

China Airlines Wins By A Land Slide

Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:18 am

CI has managed to crash 747-400, MD-11, 2X A300-600R. (within last 10 year).
 
airways
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:40 am

What about Korean? They also had a lot of accidents in the last years. They distroyed a 747 in Guam, a 747F in England, an MD-11F in Shanghai. Then there was another 747 wich was written off after an incident (I don't remember where, probably Asia..) and I also have a picture in mind of a F100 which stranded on a field, broken in two or three pieces.

Ok, things became better at Korean. They did a lot to improve their security. We will see what the future brings...

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
Whistler
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 8:12 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:08 am

Tower Air, I don't think I need to elaborate Big grin.
 
BA DC-10
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2001 8:40 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:31 am

I seem to remember Panam had a lot of unfortunate accidents...a lot though were not its fault...
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:11 am

PAN AM; They were cutting corners on security and their mangement of Martin Shugrue and CEO Plaskett were shady. When the plane went down not all of the passengers who were on the plane were even listed on the pax manufast yet. The airlines attitude toward grieving family members were abominable. I'm gald they're out of business. I couldn't stand the sight of them after the way their uncaring employees treated my family the night the plane went down when we tried to find out info related to the crash. They had waivers to skip hand searches on unaccompanied bags from Europe. They had a man named Ulrich Weber who was hired to to security at FRA who had misplaced the Helsinki Warning.This employee got a dishonerable discharge from the Illinios Natioanl Guard and was courtmarshaled in the Army for going AWOL. He also had a rap sheet longer than my arm with fraud, stealing property, recieving stolen property, writing bad checks among other offenses. Yet PA hired this punk to do secuirty at the then World's most netourious airport. He shouldn't have even been allowed to clean toilets!!! He hired a haidresser who had no background in secuirty because she had lovely blue eyes. Within 4 days she was promoted to supervisor.

By the way; Another employee found the Helsinki waring in a pile of papers on Weber's desk the day after the bobmbing. That employee was fired but Weber was allowed to stay and his budget for security shot up. Their bomb sniffing dogs at JFK were a sham. They were show dogs bnough cheap from a local kennel. I bet none of you would fly PA if you found our that they were no doing pax/bag match. Dan Sonenson a Top securtiy exec for PA sent a Telex "If a pax does not show up but his/her luggage is on board then we go!!!" Shugrue lied about the waivers. He said that they were a verbal agreement which is crap because you need to get them in writing.

They lied to the NY media by palcing ads stating that in order to pay for high security PA was tacking an extra $5 fee on ever one way 1st class ticket. The money was actually goingto their coffers. An ex EL Al Security cheif named Issac Yeffet was commisioned by PA for a security review. In his report he found that the most security employees have never seen a bomb real or fake and that their cago comaptments were venerable to bombs.The report concluded "The mere fact that no major incident has occured to date is merely providential" This report was filed away in 1986 and was never touched since.

Another airline was Eastern. During the Lorenzo era. The IRS was auditing EAL over tax fraud. The FAA (The tombstone agency) was strogly objecting. The IRS was suspicious so a further investigation found that EAL was also cutting corners. This time it was maintinace. EAL superviosrs would say "We don't have time for this repair " S othey would sign it off as done even though the work was partially done or not done at all.
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:17 am

If I had it my way along with the families of PA 103 then Martin Shugure, Thomas Plaskett, Dana Sonenson, Ulrich Weber and ex FAA cheif Dan Salazar(who gave PA the waivers) would be serving time for manslaughter. But guess getting the $550,000 compenstion, having the airline go under and the airline being found guilty of gross neglegence in the safety and security of those of PA 103 is good enough.
"FUIMUS"
 
Dasheighty
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 1:54 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:24 am

Eastwind airlines Not they ever crashed but it was the only airline I ever heard of that had a riot during flight.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:14 pm

I meant to say Dan Sonenson not Dana.
"FUIMUS"
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Whistler

Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:29 pm

Yes, you do need to elaborate.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Guest

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:30 pm

For some reason, Eastern Airlines...
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:42 pm

Tower Air had an incident accident rating 13 times higher than Valujet. After the closing the CEO Morris Nacatomi skipped the country in order to avoid paying creditors.
"FUIMUS"
 
airways
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:00 pm

What about Aloha of Hawaii?

As I know, the only airline which was flying a 737-convertible (without top)...

Michael
http://airways.ch
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:03 pm

koren air and gulf air are fairly notorious for safety records.

Aloha of Hawaii are very famous for being the airline who had the roof come one of their planes in mid-flight.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
taloush
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 4:20 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:19 pm

Go Canada, why do you consider GF a "notorious airline"???? just because of that crash last summer??
okay i admit that crash wasnt the best thing to happen, but you can't judge an entire airline's safety record just because of the mistake of one pilot..
i've flown on gulf air for almost my entire life and i can assure you that i feel EXTREMELY safe in flight..!
Your attention, please.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 8:29 pm

How did I know the phases 'show dogs bought cheap from a local kennel' and 'skipped the country' would appear in this thread?  Insane
-
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:03 pm

i flew with GF twice and i didnt feel safe, i had a plane that rattled! your are naturally going to say that gulf air are safe because your biased towards them.

however the fact remains there are notorious, this thread wasnt Go Canadas opinions on whats safe and whats not-it was a thread on what airlines are notorious.

the fact is gulf air are notorious, i know of not one person interested in aviation that thinks gulf air are a very safe airline.

It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:06 pm

aeroflot-what about them?

TG992-sorry i dont get your post!
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
OH-LZA
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:39 pm

Can someone explain what the Helsinki Warning was?

Zulu Alpha
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:07 am

Tg 992; I hope you're not being wise with me because my opinons are backed with facts. CEO morris Nacatomi did skip the country due to his enormous dept he could pay off. Yesa PAN AM did get show dogs from a local kennel. They were not security dogs; They can find hamburgers in your bag but not bombs as PA claim they were. These so called bomb sniffing dogs were used as a propaganda tool by PA and as a result of their lies 270 people are dead.
"FUIMUS"
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

OH-LZA

Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:15 am

I think that it was the warning recieved prior to the bombing of PA103 over my hometown of Lockerbie. But the Americans and PA didnt take much notice and well...u know what happened next, 270 lives were lost, including that of my best friend at the time.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
OO-VEG
Posts: 1214
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2000 5:31 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Wed Jul 18, 2001 2:57 am

Korean Air, they managed to lose 5 747's in air disasters. Not all of those 5 crashes are to blame on Korean Air as you may remember 1 was shot down by Russian fighterjets somewhere in East Russia. And they have also lost a significant number of other aircraft.

I wouldn't want to fly with them.
 
sevenair
Posts: 1494
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Notorious Airlines

Wed Jul 18, 2001 5:01 am

Axon Airlines-
last week a flight from greece to newcastle made 3 attempts at landing but diverted to manchester-the pilot then imprisoned the passengers (one of which called the police) at manchester before completing the journey by train. Axon airwaysd is yet to comment and NCL says the airport is fine and its the first incedent of that type at the airport. Athens based Axon was using the 733 last week and has been all over the british press.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

Sevenair

Wed Jul 18, 2001 5:07 am

It was a 737-700 and I read about it on PPrune and I think I posted aout it in another thread.
Miracuously, an ATR42 landed after the Axon 737 went down to MAN !!
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Notorious Airlines

Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:33 am

OH-LGA; The Helsinki warning was a male with an Arabic accent calling up the US Embassy in Helsinki warning that a PAN AM flight out of FRA would be blown up a few days before christmas.

"FUIMUS"

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