Hamlet69
Topic Author
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Thu Jul 19, 2001 10:01 am

Although this is only a tiny fraction from a more comprehensive article dealing with United's current financial situation, it is an interesting comment none-the-less. IMO, it also gives the first confirmation that UA is looking to off-load some of their 744 fleet.

From second-to-last paragraph:
It also said it's accelerating the retirement of its Boeing 727s and converting operations at several airports to United Express and cutting capital spending plans to save roughly $300 million. One executive said United was "long" on Boeing 747-400s and "if we could sell them, we would."

Full article:
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_comm.jsp?view=story&id=news/fual0718.xml

Now, the original story I kept hearing is that UA would exchange 12-20 747-400's for 777-300ER's. Boeing would take the 744's, and they would be the basis for a -400 conversion program, and would subsequently be sold to Atlas Air. Given United's current and forecasted finicial outlook, it seems doubtful that they would have the resources available for a 773ER purchase (this is, afterall, Boeing's most expensive model). Instead, it seems they are simply looking at selling a few 744's. However, Atlas has also been having a tough time recently, and have publicly stated that their forcasted market is not nearly what it used to be, which means it is doubtful they would be in the market for UA's 744's.

Comments?

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
toxtethogrady
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Help!

Thu Jul 19, 2001 10:10 am

The doggone plane won't fit into Dulles...not until 2006. Who knows if they can fit it into O'Hare or SFO or LAX? (oh well, Singapore's going to try to fit A380's into those airports!)
 
United Airline
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Thu Jul 19, 2001 10:40 am

More than a rumour I would say. They need the B 744s for many routes. The B 773ER is an ideal replacement for B 747 Classics, but not the B 744.

Besides, they do not have money to replace them.

Regards.
 
wingman
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Thu Jul 19, 2001 10:50 am

Here's another crazy rumor. How about an SIA switch to GE90s from the RR Trents? Someone on PPRUNE apparently quoted an FI article alluding to this. SIA apparently displeased at the number of IFSDs on the RRs. This coupled, I'm sure, with a super sweet deal from Beoing and GE of some LRs perhaps. Probably all pure speculation but who knows.

In terms of 773s for UA, I would seriously give these babies away just to keep Airbus out of their long-range equation. Take in the 744s with deep discounts on the 773s and this would squelch any talk of 345/6s. Would never happen. Too many 744s....doesn't bode well for 380 sales to UA any time soon either. I think this economic downturn is reminding everyone that shit does happen, and when it does, capacity is the first thing to go.
 
Guest

RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Thu Jul 19, 2001 11:06 am

Yes it is just a rumor. If this was serious, more people would be talking about than just one "executive". United simply doesn't have to money to make any changes to the fleet like that.

Also, if UAL wanted to cut capacity, why go for the B773ER? It serves as a 747 classic replacement, so it wouldn't be much of a downgrade of capacity than the 744s. I still don't see why some actually take this little rumor seriously.

Also, I think someone was talking about engine deal problems with UAL getting the B773ER, was it TEDSKI or B747-437B? I also remember B747-437B gave us very good, and many reasons why this won't indeed happen.

UA's 744s are too young, UA has 44 of them. The 747 plays a MAJOR role in Australia and Asian routes for UA. They can't afford to rid of any 744s, they are cash cows, especially on the Asian routes.

Rgds,

Boeing747-400
 
raggi
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Thu Jul 19, 2001 4:48 pm

The 773ER would suit UAL perfectly as a replacement for some of their 744s. Keep the same number of First and Business seats, while a bit less coach seats than in the 744. The 773`s outstanding cargo capacity, the fuel efficiency of a twin and the overall benefits of a newer design compared to the 744 could make, in my opinion, an order for the 773ER not unlikely...


raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
The777Man
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Thu Jul 19, 2001 5:46 pm

I don't think it would make any sense to replace the 744s for the reasons already mentioned above. In the press release for the second quarter result, Goodwin said that UA will "defer delivery of new aircraft" in order to minimize losses. I think UA will still take 777s and Airbuses for this year but I'm not sure if UA will take all on order for next year. I think it's a safe bet that UA will not order any new model of airplanes for a while. The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Fri Jul 20, 2001 1:29 am

United Airline, when did you have access to United's banking records?

Where do you get off "they don't have money for it?"

United isn't like TWA and Midway that skimp by on low bank accounts. United's CASH balance exceeds $3 billion dollars...

but wait.. you'd rather just speculate than do actual research on the Edgar Databases to find out the FACTS about United Airlines, and you still want to come across as an expert.

Blah..

too many kids on this board

And in regards to capacity, if UA gets the 777-300, it would barely hold 300 passengers in how United configures their aircraft.

nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
ILUV767
Posts: 3035
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Fri Jul 20, 2001 1:45 am

SegmentKing wrote:

And in regards to capacity, if UA gets the 777-300, it would barely hold 300 passengers in how United configures their aircraft.




Nate, I agree for the most part on that. People fail to realize that the 744s seat 14 in first, 73 in biz, and 260 in back, which isnt even 350 passengers. If the 773ER comes from Boeing with 365 seats, in United's config, it would probably seat around 310 to 325 people. If you just pull out some economy seats, and leave the large first and biz cabins, how much revenue is actually lost...if any?

I L U V 7 6 7
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:21 am

Wingman: You are right, FI did do that and see my post for more details!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Anyway, I think that for both airlines, the case is similar. They both want to cut costs down while retaining their current capacity (unless there is a serious recession or economic crisis). The 773LR is more fuel production, and efficient thatn the 744 while carrying a similar amount of pax.

However, I dunno about UA, but I don't think SIA will go for GE unless they get a discount for the massive inconvenience to SIAEC and the training of engineers. Stupid Boeing.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Hamlet69
Topic Author
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Fri Jul 20, 2001 8:58 am

The777Man,

Would you have any idea how much utilization UA gets out of their 744 fleet, and what their average load factors are? I realize that this might be hard to obtain, but you're one of the most connected to UA on this board, so it's worth asking?

As I stated before, I don't see a 773ER order in the near future, but I do think we'll see UA try and dispose of part of their 744 fleet (probably only 5-10 birds at first). Rememeber, that capacity is only valuable when it is used. In the current economic downturn, that 'extra' capacity can turn into a money vacuum virtually overnight.

As one last note, it should be pointed out that United's 61 777 (and last under current orders) will be delivered in May of next year. This means that their options must be close to fruition, and it will be interesting to see if UA choses to let the first ones expire.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Fri Jul 20, 2001 9:13 am

Would you have any idea how much utilization UA gets out of their 744 fleet?

In January 2001, the average daily utilization of UA's 747-400s was 13.6 hrs, which was the highest of any aircraft type in the fleet.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Hamlet69
Topic Author
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Is UA 773ER For 744 More Than A Rumor?

Fri Jul 20, 2001 12:36 pm

Thanks, B747-437B! Is it possible to tell me where you got the info? I would be interested if there was more where that came from.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.

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