CliperB777
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Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 3:06 pm

I have flown several times across the Atlantic on AF's A340's. However, I have been disappointed as far as the aircraft goes. They shake a lot and just don't feel as sturdy and comfortable as the B767. I much rather travel on a CO or DL 767-200's and 767-400's than on an A340. It just feels like, once I get into the 767, it WILL get me home safely and comfortably. A lot of you seem to like the A340's, and I am just wondering why. I am not comparing the 777 to the A340's simply because as far as comfort goes, I think the 777 is head and shoulders above the A340's. Please note that this is NOT a question regarding the looks or the technical performance of the aircraft (ETOPS included), but just mere comfort. Also, please answer ONLY if you have flown on both, the A340's and B767.
 
eg777er
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 3:27 pm

Never had the experiences you describe on the A340.

In my opinion, it's comfortable, quiet and the 2-4-2 layout in economy is a very good compromise between personal convenience and passenger numbers. And in seat 1A, let me tell you it's almost silent at the cruise...but a bit sluggish on the takeoff roll...

I haven't flown on a 767 very much in the last 5 years - just a 45 minute leg NCL-LHR in March...but have always liked them.

And the A340 is perfectly safe...as are most aircraft today.

 
paulc
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 3:45 pm

4 engines vs 2 engines - enough said

Found both A340 and 767 comfortable and quiet - maybe you should try a different airline  Smile
English First, British Second, european Never!
 
Guest

RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 3:50 pm

It looks cool!
 
zauberfloete
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:09 pm

I had been a lot of times on 767´s and a lot of times on A340´s. And guess what - I definitely prefer the A340.
Quieter, smoother, wider....what more can you expect.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:13 pm

It is the most beautiful modern aircraft!  Big thumbs up
It also looks fantastic in Olympic Airways livery.



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Bring back the Concorde
 
Cyril B
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:02 pm

Feelings are not facts. With four engines, the A340 is definetly safer than a B767. And never an A340 have crashed, contrary to the 767 (even if i must admit that the 767 is older than the A340)
 
fritzi
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:14 pm

I like the A 340 a lot more because the cabin feels more modern. Of course it may shake sometimes because it has two more engines than the 340. I've flown with the DL 767 twice from VIE-ATL and I didn't enjoy the flight so much because the A/C felt quite aged. I also feel alot safer with four engines on a long haul flight than only two.
 
BlatantEcho
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Cyril B

Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:18 pm

Site one fact that points out that 4 engines are safer than 2.

Site a document, report, or anything, in which 4 engines are safer than 2. Put up or shut up. I am rather tired of comments like those that are based on no facts at all.

BlatantEcho
They're not handing trophies out today
 
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sebolino
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BlatantEcho

Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:34 pm

It's just common sense guy.
If you have one engine out of order upon the ocean, it's better to have 3 left than only one.
 
Udo
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DC-3?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 6:50 pm

I have flown 340s of Cathay and SIA and B767s of Delta and BA and I can tell you I definitely prefer the A340. It's cabin noise is extremely low, it still feels good in turbulence (there were quite many near the Himalaya!), it's just comfortable. Better than the B767...and regarding your "unsafe" feeling aboard the A340: how many A340s have crashed so far, and how many B767s due to doubtful reasons (e.g. suicide or rudder...?)

Are you sure you mean the A340 and not the DC-3 of SAA's classic division?  Big grin

Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
sabenapilot
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 6:58 pm

As a Sabena pilot myself (not on these ladies) I have flown numerous times on Sabena's A340 and 2 times on Sobelair's B767 (a Sabena subsidiary).
Although it is difficult to compare different aircraft on different flights, I think I can have a fair shot at it because both Sabena and Sobelair operate their planes in much the same way. (performance - time - speed - fuel - etc.) Comparing different planes from different companies is not really the way to do it since a lot of the differences might be caused by how the company wants its pilots to operate their planes.

Both the B767 and the A340 are very nice aircraft but I must say that I prefer the A340.
Why?
it is a more relaxing plane to fly on.


To me riding the B767 means:
a powerfull take-off pushing you into your seat,
a lot of bumping whilst climbing,
noisy flap and gear retraction.
frequent power changes during descent profile,
spoilers that cause vibrations during descent-decelerations.
abrupt deceleration on the RWY due to reverse and brakes.

On the A340 everything seems to be going much smoother.
Take-off is less powerfull,
configuration changes are very quiet.
descent is done at real idle setting.
smoother landings.
no abrupt stopping.
etc. etc.

I know much of this has to do with the guys flying but as said before, I have compared between the 2 planes operated within the same group of companies.
 
SQ325
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 7:13 pm

I flow 767 from FRA to CVG and from TPA tp ATL
I flow A340 from SIN to DPS from MAD to MIA and back.
I prefer the Airbus. I feel more comfortable in the A340.
I know that the performance of the A340 is not that good, but I' ve to say that the noise inside the plane is tuely soft. softer then in any other plane I' ve flown.
that makes the A340 always a good choice for long haul flights during nights.
 
lewis
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 7:18 pm

It looks so great especially wearing Olympic Airways colors! It has style.

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voodoo
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 7:41 pm

I find the 777 noisy and every flight I have been on one someone has been sick....(search/see various news reports relating to 777 syndrome...especially BA).
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
gerardo
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 8:02 pm

I definitely prefer the A340. But on the contrary to some here, I definitely count the Olympic livery as on the worst ever seen on an A340, sorry.

What about Air Tahiti Nui

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or Cathay Pacific

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and others

Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
na
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 9:35 pm

Strange post. My experience is different. I find the A340 extremely stable and the quietest aircraft I´ve ever been on, in fact ahead of the 777. That´s the complete opposite of what you´ve been posting and I absolutely cannot understand how you came to your conclusion. The 777 "head and shoulders" ahead of the A340? Untrue and partial. Are you one of these 777 maniacs on this forum?
 
Guest

RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:09 pm

I find the A340 the most comfortable plane to fly with. Compared to other Widebodies I have flown ( DC10,MD11,A330, B744 and L1011 ) it seems to have the most quiet cabin.
Also I like it´s seating configuration alot.
I am looking forward to the A346 and I hope that the new interior design will offer a bit more space at the sidewalls which are currently just ok but not as good as on the other widebodies.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:22 pm

Right on Gerardo! Air Tahiti Nui livery is beautiful, while Olympic is less of an eye opener, anyways it's all a matter of taste.

I flew both on both the 767 and the A340. The 767 seems more powerful, but is also more noisy (especially gear retraction) while the A340 is less powerful but seems smoother.

As far as the number of engines goes it looks pretty simple to me.
For the 767 2 - 1 = 1 and 1 - 1 = 0
For the A340 4 - 1 = 3 and 3 - 1 = 2 and I could go on like this...
Keyword: redundancy

Regards,
Nicolas
 
LON-CHI
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:31 pm

On the flip side of the number of engines debate, a four-engine craft has more of a chance of experiencing engine problems (potentially catastrophic, no less)

Just playing devils advocate.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:31 pm

Can't wait to see a new long range RR Trent 553 powered SIA A340-500!!!
 
M27
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:32 pm

Cliperb777;

Its okay to have the feelings you have and the likes you have! You don't expect Sabenapilot, Voodoo, Gerardo, Na and the like to ever concede anything is anybetter than any Airbus, and anyone who does is a maniac, so don't worry about it and just consider the source. I think the maniac bit is a bit of a case of the Pot calling the Kettle black!

By the way, the AN 225 has to be the safest plane flying. It just makes common sense man, cause it has two more engines than even the wonderful A340.

Regards
 
M27
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:44 pm

By the way, do you think when the A340-500-600 comes out with their powerful RR Trents, that they will be as quite as the current 200-300 series?

If not, I guess the emphasis in this forum will switch to how the great power of the A340 makes it superb instead of the super quiet cabin. I look foward to the big switch in the A340 promotion!
 
Guest

RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:45 pm

What about the B-52?
Boy, that thing must fall out of the sky every week since it has 8 engines!

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Nicolas
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 11:09 pm

I like the A340 because asthetically (sp?) it looks like everything "fits". I think it's an impressive looking aircraft. I have not had the pleasure of flying on one, but I look forward to it.

As far as the 2 vs. 4 engine debate goes, I think it's blown out of proportion. In relation to ETOPS aircraft and the A340 & 747, the chances of two or more engines on todays airliners have seperate mechanical failures on the same flight is practically impossible. There has been only one instance of a simultaneous shutdown of two engines, and it would have happened to all four engines as well. Air Canada 767 glider. When you run out of go-go juice, it doesn't matter how many engines you've got, your goin' down. Another is volcanic ash. Grant it, technology has caught up with this phenomenon, so the chance of running into it anymore are slim to none. None the less, there have been four engine aircraft that have turned into gliders.

Cliperb777, maybe you should try to fly an A340 on another airline. Don't judge the aircraft with a flight you've had on one airline.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
Cyril B
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Wed Jul 25, 2001 11:56 pm

In fact, my last topic was too brief.

A four engine aircraft is safer than a twin engine one not just because its higher number of engines.
A four engine aircraft is ETOPS free,
and with four engines, strains on the wings are highly reduced, wich can insure a slightly better security for passengers.

But the A340 is safer than the B767 mainly because its just a more recent aircraft in terms of conception.
 
Guest

RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:11 am

I only flew once on a LH A340 from DTW to FRA and it was very comfortable. But I think the B767 seating arrangement is unbeatable.


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jaysit
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:24 am

The A340 has to be the quietest plane I've flown on. The shaking you experienced may have been a result of local weather patterns or other climb related factors at the airport of departure. I don't understand where you get your absurd fears of the A340. It has a gentle climb rate, but unless you want your jetliners to feel like a rocket upon take-off (and most people do not), I don't see what the problem is.

As far as comfort goes, the 777 certainly feels like it has more space and head room, but that doesn't necessarily translate into more personal space, i.e., leg room. Airlines across most airplanes give you the standard 31-32" in coach.

And as far as the Olympic A340s go...... I have yet to see an uglier color scheme.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ContinentalFan
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:30 am

I think the Olympic livery is cool, in that retrojet kinda way. The four engines make it gives me that 60's/70's 707/DC-8 vibe.

BTW, on a slightly unrelated note, I read in some magazine that Boeing was proposing to reengine B-52Hs w/ four RR RB211s (I think the bigger (-424?) version)!

Mike.
 
BA
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:38 am

I flew on the A340 for the first time just 1 month ago and I was extremely impressed. Sure, it takes a while to reach cruising altitude, but it is certainly a fine aircraft.

Cliperb777,
You really shouldn't post these type of topics. They tend to end up as Airbus vs. Boeing wars which never end.

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Klaus
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RE: Cabin Headroom

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:50 am

While I like good headroom (I´m 1.97m tall) I imagine that it can become a problem for shorter people to reach the overhead compartments. It´s just a wild guess, but that might account for any difference 340/777 (if it´s not just perceived).

The space above the ceiling isn´t much use for anything else on a single-decker anyway. (Or did I miss something?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )

For me personally, the height of the head rest and the noise level in flight are much more important. It´s been some time ago, but my first A300 flight was a very pleasant surprise against the noisy 767s I´ve had before. If the 340 should be even better, well...
 
flyvs007
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:57 am

"To me riding the B767 means:
a powerfull take-off pushing you into your seat,
a lot of bumping whilst climbing,
noisy flap and gear retraction.
frequent power changes during descent profile,
spoilers that cause vibrations during descent-decelerations.
abrupt deceleration on the RWY due to reverse and brakes. "


Thats what I like about flying! On the engine # debate, I saw an interesting TV program the other day about the old Lockheed Constellation. They showed an in flight demonstration, firstly the outboard left engine was shutdown - no problems! Then the inboard - no problems! Then the inboard on the right side was shut down. Guess what? She kept on flying, no probs! I was impressed!
 
BA
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 1:05 am

FlyVS007,

First of all, how can you compare an A340 with the 767? The A340 is a MUCH MUCH MUCH heavier aircraft, and offcourse larger.

Its like comparing a 747 with a 737.

Sheesh....
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
CliperB777
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 1:46 am

Again, the only ones that can answer this question are those people that have flown BOTH, A340 and B767. And, as mentioned above, I do not care about technical specifications, performance, looks or ETOPS considerations. This is just for my own information, since I have only flown on AF's A340's and lots of B767's. It is not meant to be an A v. B battle. Just looking for honestt answers and not fanatic answers. Remember, in the US, we do not have that many airlinse that fly A340's into the country.
 
LON-CHI
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:18 am

I have flown on a LH & VS A340 and UA 767, 777, 747 several times. I never noticed that one was quieter than the others (I'm not doubting that the A340 is quietest). Personally, I prefer the 767. Best seating config and least amount of pax. I like to get from point A to point B as quick as I can without spending a lot of time loading, unloading and waiting for my bags. I think the 777 has the best designed interior, however.
 
Skystar
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 4:15 pm

I've flown both the B767 and the A340, and I've flown the A340 on one of its shortest, and one of its longest routes.

Personally, in terms of cabin space I find no issue, as in both aircraft you are no further than 1 seat from an aisle (only thing is you have wider seats on the 767, but an airier cabin on the A340). Most B767s suffer from an old cabin layout that is starting to look quite dated.

The A340 by far has the best ventilation of any aircraft I have flown, and that certainly makes long flights a lot more comfortable. It is also noticeably quieter than the B747.

In regards to its takeoff performance, most don't care, and quite frankly it's adequate. Takeoff is more fun in the B767, but I'm willing to forgo some temporary fun for long term comfort. To put a positive spin, it's gentle, and for those who will complain that it's underpowered, just remember than with one engine out, an A340 is better powered than a B777.

Simply put, the A340 is a more modern machine, and on the right airline, is a very refined and comfortable aircraft to fly on.

Cheers,

Justin
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:24 pm

It'll be interesting to see what will the pilot and passenger reaction to the A340-500/600 series be when it becomes operational in the summer of 2002.

Hopefully, Airbus kept the quietness of the A340-200/300 series on the A345/A346 models. I do know that an all-new interior with improved overhead bins for improved headroom on the window seats will be standard on the A345/A346.
 
TTT
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:36 pm

Every aircraft is the best. Everyone has their preferences as to what they like. Airbus or Boeing cant please everyone in this world.

I personally love the 777. I used to hate the A340 after one medium-haul ride in it. But watching it depart, climbing especially with its glowing red engines and wings blending with the winglets, the A340 has become one of my favourite aircraft and I would gladly fly it anytime anyplace anywhere. Thats why I like the A340.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 10:44 pm

Cyril B,

Are you an aeronautical engineer? Why do you say that a four engined aircraft puts less stress on the wings of a two engined aircraft? With the more powerful engines on a two engined aircraft, the wing is reenforced to handle the "extra stress". Therefore, there is no more stress applied on a two than a four.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
caribb
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:23 pm

I have flown both the 767 (Air Canada, KLM) and the A340 (Air Canada) several times over both short and long distances in both cases.. from my experiences the feeling I get is exactly opposite to you. The 767 is noisy, shakes more and feels less secure while the A340 is significantly quieter and feels very powerful and secure. I know both jets are excellent and safe and I really don't worry about the technical realities of them but I would have to say I would prefer the A340 over the 767 in terms of comfort and how I "feel" once inside the moving aircraft. Now if you compared a 767 to a much smaller plane I would take the 767 over it so everything is relative.
 
Whistler
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:30 am

About the Olympic A340...

I think that livery makes it look like an Aeroflot IL86, that is NOT a good thing Big grin.

I like Air Canada and Lufthansa's A340s.
 
Western737
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:37 am

I never flew A340 so based on looking, I like -600 with big engines. It make it look real plane compare to older -200, -300 which I would prefer 707 over.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:54 am

Whistler:
I think that livery makes it look like an Aeroflot IL86, that is NOT a good thing

Why is that a bad thing?
I think the IL-86 is great looking aircraft! Aeroflot has a beautiful livery just as Olympic. It looks like what a large aircraft SHOULD look like instead of some large generic twin ie. CO 777 YUCK!!




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It actually looks more like an IL-96 not 86.
Bring back the Concorde
 
briboy
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:07 am

On this, I have flown both 767-200 and -300 along with A330 / A340 on the YYZ - YVR route many times in the last 18 months. I find that I aim for flights with the Airbus aircraft, mostly because the aairplane itself is newer and more comfortable. Air Canada's 767 aircraft are getting a bit long in the tooth, and the ex CP aircraft are in many cases in definiate need of refurbishing.

Both aircraft are well layed out in Y with 2+3+2 and 2+4+2 layout, much nicer than the 777 with its 2+5+2 or 3+3+3 layout (IMHO). I also try to upgrade to J, and find that while AC's 767 aircraft may have 1+2+2 (give me the 1 anyday!), the Airbuses have much nicer overall accomidations up front.

I usually fly the WB Airbuses because they are newer, hence less worn out. I have yet to fly one of the new Air Canada 767s, so I will hold judegement on them.

As for looks, while the A340 is a nice looking plane, the 767-200 in origional AC paint is one of my all time favs!


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Continental
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:30 am

I'd say that the Airbus A340 is far safer. It has four engines, so if an engine goes out, it can still fly perfectly. If the 777 or the 767's engine went out, you're basically screwed. I love the 777 and it is my favorite aircraft, but I do have to say that the A340 is safer. I was on Lufthansa's A340-313X two Thursdays ago, and it was a smooth flight the entire way.

Continental
 
CV990A
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 3:03 am

I think it all depends on the airline- I just flew on VS's A340s and thought they were terrible- easily one of the most uncomfortable aircraft I've ever flown on, but with another 2-3 inches of seat pitch, the aircraft could have been very nice. But based on this one experience with the A340, I'd take the 767 any day of the week.
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
Continental
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RE: CV990A

Fri Jul 27, 2001 4:05 am

It's not really that your bad experience happened because of Airbus's A340. See, the airline recieves the aircraft empty, it is then the airlines duty to fill the aircraft with seats. So Airbus has nothing to do with the seats, it's just the airlines fill up every possible space with a seat, to get the most capacity as possible, even if the passenger dislikes it.


Continental (MSP)
 
AC_A340
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:10 am

To answer somebody's question about stress on the airframe, here's th summary of why.

When aan aircraft is flying, the entire weight is supported by the wings, so naturally they bend up. Now, the engineers have to keep the wing from bending up too much, if it bends up too much, less lift is created. So to keep the wings down, they can

A) Add another engine to each wing

B) Structurally re-inforce the wing.

The best example of this is the A330 and A340. The A340 can go further because it can hold more fuel. It isn't re-inforced as much in the wing as the A330 simply because it doesn't need to be. So they put fuel tanks there.

That's what I've been told anyways. Please correct me if I'm wrong
 
WiLdmanVzla
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:27 am

It's a really safe airplane... & so beautiful by the way!!!!

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Adria
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RE: Why Do You Like The A340's?

Fri Jul 27, 2001 5:43 am

They shake a lot? Smile Come on haven't you found a better reason for putting the A340 down. Well I have flown on a 767-300 Lauda air and the plane was really comfortable but then again I flew on a 767-200 Air Seychelles and MAS B777 and we sit like fish in the box. The Airlanka(SriLankan now) A340 were comfortable but I only missed the TV in each seat.AF aircrafts aren't comfortable.Have you flown on a AF B767/777?I guess not so don't write something you aren't sure about.It all depends on the airline.I've been on a AF 747-300 and was wery dissapointed.

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