KCLE
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Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:50 am

Did United stop 757-200 service in CLE? I've been to CLE recently, in the time periods when the 752 would arrive or depart, and I saw that only a 737 and a 727 come during these times. If this is true, it's a sad state of affairs with UA at CLE. I guess I was two years too late getting into aviation, since back in '98, UA had DC-10-10's on regular service, but now they are retired, so I expected that maybe there would be some 767-200's, or more 757-200's at CLE, but now it's just so few flights, and they are only 727-200's, and 737 (200-500)'s.
 
Cleco
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:52 am

I thought there was a UAL airbus or two.

Jake
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KCLE
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:58 am

O ya, thanks CleCo, every now and then they do have that Airbus flight. I think it's an A319, or A320, one of the two.
 
N766UA
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:02 pm

Early mornings UA has a 767-300 to ORD. Throughout the day UA flys in 757s, A320s, A319s, 737-200s, -300s, and -500s, and 727-200s. I just depends what day you go. ACA flys CRJs for UA too.
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Cleco
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:05 pm

I remember seeing one of the dc-10's take off a while back. It's a sight to see from the Bomber squadron.

Jake
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UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:08 pm

Rumor has it that CLE will get the ax as a UA mainline station in the upcoming months....I wouldn't be surprised...
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:15 pm

Not likely. The CLE-ORD market is pretty big, for a variety of reasons, including Cleveland's lack of
international air service, beyond the daily CO CLE
to LGW flight and some weekly services to Mexico.

I think IAD and some ORD flights at off peak times
will go regional jet and that the CLE-DEN flight, if
it still operates will get the axe though.

When I lived in Northeast Ohio in the early 1990's
I sometimes flew the afternoon DC10-30 to ORD,
continuing to SEA.

ContinentalEWR
 
N766UA
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:21 pm

Keep in mind, UA and Cleveland hate each other. After UA "just pulled out" in the 80's, the city has gotten mighty sore at them.
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Guest

RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:26 pm

Cleveland has 8 daily UA mainline flights, 72S, 737 and a lone 320. No 757s or 767s. Den and ORD
 
flyCMH
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:29 pm

United's schedule is constantly changing. Currently, United does not offer 757 service into Hopkins, but starting in the fall, 3 flights will be upgraded back to 757-200's. An 8th daily nonstop to ORD will also be added with a Canadair regional jet. While I've heard the rumors that CLE will be downgraded completely to regional jets, I have a hard time beleiving that will happen.
 
N766UA
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 12:38 pm

FlyCMH makes a great point. UA changes schedules daily. I saw three A320s when I was there in June. I saw a 757 in late May, and a 767 in June as well. It just depends on when you go.
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Alpha 1
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 1:13 pm

N766UA said:

"Keep in mind, UA and Cleveland hate each other. After UA "just pulled out" in the 80's, the city has gotten mighty sore at them."

I couldn't disagree more, will due respect!! Here's a little history behind UA/CLE after UA's hub closed:

-In the late 70's, DL approached CLE to build a midwest hub in CLE-the city turned them down, convinced they could get UA to reopen the hub here.

-In the late 90's, there was a series of articles in the Cleveland Plain Dealer on the history and the future of Hopkins. One of the head honchos running Hopkins was quoted in the paper as saying that he wished UA would come back with a lot of flights to CLE to keep CO from getting too big-he thought it would be bad to have a carrier with too many flights!! This is a guy trying to run a major airport!!

There are still people in CLE-their numbers are dwindling, but there's still many, who have a huge case of United-Envy in CLE, even 25 years after UA started to leave CLE.
 
SouthRebels
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 1:57 pm

Here is a look at United's service out of Cleveland. This is all current for this week. As someone said before, UA's service in Cleveland changes frequently.

Cleveland to Chicago (ORD) -- 49 weekly
1 daily - 733
1 daily - 72S
1 daily - CRJ
1 daily - 732
1 xSat - 320
1 xSat - 733
1 M-F - 320
1 Sat. - 757
1 Sat. - 733
1 Sat. - 732
1 Sun. - 319

Cleveland - Washington, D.C. (IAD) -- 28 weekly
4 daily - CRJ

Cleveland - Denver -- 14 weekly
1 daily - 72S
1 daily - 320

That makes 91 daily flights from Cleveland on United. 767-300 service to ORD stopped sometime last year and you won't see it again. The volume isn't there, especially with its frequency. However, the myth that the 757 doesn't operate to CLE anymore isn't true. Hope this helps a little.
 
aio86
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:15 pm

The (not so) old 767 service to CLE was timed in the afternoon. (I thought) it was perfect because it fed all of the flights comming in from west of Chicago, and they could fill up an entire widebody of just passengers in transit. I guess there weren't enough passengers to fill up a 767, oh well. I remember being on a full widebody plane going to CLE on a LAX-ORD-CLE itinerary.
 
KCLE
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 2:39 pm

It's a shame to go spotting at CLE anymore, since all you see are small jets. The exception being CO with their four 757 flights spread across a large timeframe. I can probably guarantee that we will not see another passenger widebody to CLE for, at least, the next 20 years, when the new runway will be completed. Even then we may not get UA back to bringing at least 767's back. CLE is basically "the Akron-Canton Regional airport" of Ohio's international airports. When spotting at CAK, the biggest aircraft is the AirTran DC-9. At CLE, you got your 757's. Whereas, CVG (although in KY. let's just say it's an Ohio airport) has Air France and Delta, so they got widebodies. CMH, I'm pretty sure, has a lot more 757 flights then CLE, and DAY, well, is a lot bigger than CLE, in all areas.

It's a real shame that even ATA downgraded their charter to Las Vegas from an L1011, to a 757. So, unless you are carrying every lucky charm known to man, and your psychic, and you can control the weather, you have a good chance of NOT seeing a widebody. But I don't think airlines divert to CLE anymore, in favor of larger, more inviting airports (namely DTW).
 
TimMSP
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Kcle

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:13 pm

KCLE,

It doesn't matter what airport you spot at. You will get used to whatever aircraft use your home airport. Here in MSP we have DC-9s, A320s, A319s, 727s, 737s, F28s, 717s, 757s, DC-10s, 747's, MD-8X's, Avro's, RJ's etc....

However, 80% of the above are all in the NW color scheme with a smattering of AA, UA, ATA, Sun Country, DL, HP, TW, CO and KLM thrown into the mix.

How I would love to see an A321, A330, A340, 767 or 777 thrown into the mix from a new airline. As it was, a Planet Airways 727-100 and a Midwest Express DC-9 were surprising and welcome visitors on my last spotting trip MSP.

Bottom line is people tend to become complacent with what they have. Try varying your spotting routine. Sometimes I'll take a camera and take still photos, sometimes I'll take a scanner and listen in on ATC or sometimes I'll grab the camcorder and take videos or sometimes I'll go with nothing and just watch.

Perhaps one of my most recent and memorable spotting trips consisted of standing directly under the 12R approach path while a string of DC-10's landed. It was the first time I heard the whine and felt some wind from their wake vortices.

Also, PIT, DTW, CMH, DAY and CVG are not far from KCLE and could make a neat day trip. Trust me, I was an airliner nut from about age 5 and my home airport was CAK. Of course there were a few more 727s and 737s than there is now and they had Eastern & Piedmont there. I can remember whining until someone in my family drove me up to CLE for a day of spotting when UA was the main carrier and can remember how huge it seemed compared to CAK. And by the way, Yes I was such a good whiner at a young age that I made it DTW, PIT, DAY, CMH, CVG as well.

Tim
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:22 pm

Kcle said:

"It's a shame to go spotting at CLE anymore, since all you see are small jets. The exception being CO with their four 757 flights spread across a large timeframe. I can probably guarantee that we will not see another passenger widebody to CLE for, at least, the next 20 years, when the new runway will be completed."

Kcle, wake up!! There's a new runway being built RIGHT NOW, that will be up and running NEXT YEAR!!! You've read too much of this crapola over the proposed 3rd runway where the IX Center is. By next fall, CLE will have dual landing/takeoff capability in VFR/marginal IFR weather. Does that mean widebodies? No it doesn't, although CO has said the 762 will replace the 752 on CLE-LGW after the runway project is completed. Whether that will happen is anyone's guess.
 
N766UA
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Alpha 1

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:24 pm

When I say Cleveland, I mean mainly airport employees. Many many lost their jobs. I'm sure some of them still work there.
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N766UA
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RE: Kcle

Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:29 pm

DAY bigger then CLE??? Since when? The only thing bigger is the runway, but I dont see a hub there, I don't see 1000 daily flights, I don't see much at all!
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SegmentKing
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:38 am

United used to have 2 daily DC10 flights into CLE and as they retired the birds, domestic FY 767-300s came in, but those have since moved to the California-Hawaii corridor.

United isn't dropping Cleveland.... too many flights, and boardings are good.. plus they have a decent Red Carpet Club and multiple spokes from the city. Last I heard UA was researching a LAX - CLE nonstop route....

Nate
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heavymetal
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Fri Jul 27, 2001 2:04 am

Some ideas, starting with some facts from my particular business:

-Cleveland is the 24th largest radio advertising market in terms of number or people who live there

-BUT, television combines Cleveland and Akron....and the area makes the leap to 13th largest metro area in America.

Is it fair to include Akron as an area whose residents use Cleveland Hopkins on a regular basis? Absolutely. Akron-Canton Regional Airport has decent service, but using CO out of Cleveland guarantees more nonstops available to the consumer.

I believe Cleveland does indeed have the geographical location and the market size to be a 1000 flight a day hub...BUT...

-They have a mayor and a city council who think it's the duty of every citizen within 150 miles to go along with everything they say. Thus, when they amble along and tell three seperate communities that the city, in fact, owns rights to anything airport related, they expect to be obeyed. I'll give at least a little credit to the mayor, but for the most part these are not "big picture" types.

-Hopkins is in an awful location to expand. Building out the terminals, parking garages, etc, means essentially flattening an enormous Ford plant. One end of the runway has an Interstate and neighborhoods at it and the other end has a 200 foot cliff into the Rocky River! Indeed, the cavernous gulch that is the Metroparks will be a bigger obstacle to future expansion than any inept politician.

There was an idea floated to abandon Hopkins and build a Denver-style superport out in the corn fields of Medina County....I think it's only a matter of time before something like this happens. Why? Well, the idea was shot down as too impractical for people on Cleveland's far east side, who would be driving 50 to 70 miles to get to the airport. But the real growth areas in Cleveland are on the west side.....As the population of the Metro balances out between east and west, I think inconvenience will loose out to sheer numbers and the awesome earnings potential of a superport...the way it did in Denver, not the easiest airport to get to if you live there.

If Cleveland aviation could or would ever hope to achieve parity with Pittsburgh, Cincinatti, Detroit.....Hopkins, for as consumer friendly as it is (I once went from sound sleep in bed to seat 7a in a 737 in 28 minutes!)...is not the answer.
 
KCLE
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Alpha1

Fri Jul 27, 2001 4:01 am

What I meant in my last post was the expansion of 6R/24L, which will not start until this new 6W/24W runway is completed. This lengthening to 11250 feet will take longer because of Grayton Rd., the calley into the abyss of Abram Creek, and the condominiums along the route of the new taxiways. My aunt lives in those condos, and she said that the bulldozers are waiting to tear down these buildings. The residents have between 1 and 8 years to move out, and they will be given the fairest market value for their homes. Also, the city is moving Brookpark Rd. I don't know why, since the runways are being built south of 10/28, but they may expand the runways and put displaced thresholds on them, but that is only my guess.

TimMSP, I never knew that Eastern flew 727's from CAK and CLE.
 
n521na
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Fri Jul 27, 2001 4:43 am

"It's a real shame that even ATA downgraded their charter to Las Vegas from an L1011, to a 757. So, unless you are carrying every lucky charm known to man, and your psychic, and you can control the weather, you have a good chance of NOT seeing a widebody. But I don't think airlines divert to CLE anymore, in favor of larger, more inviting airports (namely DTW)."

I'm not sure if you are talking about Las Vegas not getting any widebodies but Hawaiian operates many DC10s here to Hawaii and Los Angeles. Delta operates 767s fomr Phoenix, Orlando, Salt Lake City, Atlanta and Cincinnatti. United operates 767 service from I think Chicago. We get 747 service from Virgin to/from London Gatwick and JAL operates 747s from LAS-LAX and NRT-LAS. Omni Air also operates DC10s. AirTransat still operates an L1011 into here. Northwest also operates DC10s to here.

Rgds,
N521NA
 
KCLE
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N521NA

Fri Jul 27, 2001 10:52 am

I'm sorry if I confused you, but I meant that ATA's Cleveland- Las Vegas charter flights were downgraded from L1011, to 757
 
Guest

RE: Question About UA At CLE

Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:42 am

Unrelated-
There is currently a UPS 747 parked on their own ramp. Been here for two days and hasn't moved - I'm wondering if it's "stuck" here.
 
n521na
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:07 pm

Ok, misunderstanding Kcle. Sorry.

Rgds,
N521NA
 
heavymetal
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Fri Jul 27, 2001 12:51 pm

Earlier posts mentioned the UPS jumbo had a gear problem after takeoff from Louisville and diverted, gear down the whole time, to CLE.
 
N766UA
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Cle_tim

Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:00 pm

See my post: UPS 747 flys Louisville to Cleveland-Gear down.
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KCLE
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RE: Cle_tim

Fri Jul 27, 2001 3:08 pm

Speaking of that 747, I was out spotting this evening, and it was gone, I didn't see it take off, but maybe it was hiding somewhere.
 
N766UA
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Kcle

Sat Jul 28, 2001 12:32 am

It's long gone. He went back to Louisville two days ago.
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SegmentKing
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:09 am

so do boy airplanes have something extra that female planes don't have?
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N766UA
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RE: Question About UA At CLE

Sat Jul 28, 2001 7:10 am

He as in the pilot.
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