Tango-Bravo
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

Pan Am In 1985

Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:03 pm

The idea for this topic was inspired by another topic concerning the U.S. major airlines in 1985, after which RC, WA, OZ, FL, PE, NY, UR, PI, OC and PS were gone within 3 years. In one of the replies, the question of where Pan Am stood in 1985 was raised.

Since PA is a subject that is at or very near the top of my interests in airline history, I set out to answer that question and found it to be a most interesting study that seemed to be a topic in its own right, especially since I have noticed that many who contribute to this forum share my interest in the historic, legendary PA.

Based on information contained in the June 1, 1985 Pan Am timetable from my collection, "Pan Am, An Airline and Its Aircraft" by R.E.G. Davies, and my Jet Airliner Production list, here is what was found.

Pan Am fleet on June 1, 1985: 12xA300B4-200; 4xA310-200; 6xL-1011-500; 13x737-200; 39x727-200; 34x747-100; 7x747-200B; 11x747SP; 8x747-100F/-200F.

Fleet Notes: The last of PA's 727-100s had been sold in 1984. All 16 of the DC-10s that were inherited from NA were gone by April, 1985; 11 DC-10-10s and 4 DC-10-30s were sold to AA in 1983-84 and one -30 to UA in 4/85. The A300B4-200s and A310-200s were being added during the same time the D10s were leaving PA's fleet. Six of the original fleet of 12 L-1011-500s were sold by 3/85, 3 to DL and 3 to the RAF. In 2/86, PA took delivery of 3 more A310-200s and from 1987-88 and in 1990, a total of 14 A310-300s. Twelve second-hand 727-200s were acquired from PE (8) and LH (4) in 1986 for use primarily on the BOS-LGA/LGA-DCA Shuttle which PA took over in the same year.

Pan Am's June 1, 1985 timetable lists 322 flights opb PA to 21 U.S. and 67 international points, plus 82 Pan Am Express flights opb Empire, Republic and Air Atlanta connecting a total of 33 U.S. cities to PA flights at JFK, DTW and MIA. Service to GRU was provided on behalf of PA by TransBrasil from GIG.

The multi-dimensional, yet apparently well-integrated worldwide route network of PA covered six continents and centered around hubs at JFK, MIA, LHR, FRA and NRT plus gateways to Asia and Australia at LAX and SFO. The Internal German Service (IGS) serving West Berlin's TXL was largely a stand-alone specialized niche operation for PA.

From JFK, flights were offered to the following destinations (n/s = non-stop):

Caribbean: n/s to BGI, BDA, NAS, PTP, SXM and STT, with 1-stop same plane services to FDF, STX, SKB.

South America: n/s to CCS and GIG, with same plane service to EZE, MVD.

Europe: n/s to LHR 3x daily, FRA 2x daily, CDG 2x daily, HAM, MUC, NCE, FCO, ZRH plus twice weekly one-stop direct service to VIE via FRA. Additional cities in Europe were served via PA connecting services from several of the cities served non-stop, as noted under FRA and LHR services.

Middle and Near East: n/s to DHA. Same plane services with stops served DXB, KHI, BOM, DEL via FRA on various days of the week.

Asia: n/s to NRT 11x weekly, with daily service continuing on to HKG.

Africa: Twice weekly service from JFK was routed DKR-MLW-LOS-NBO

U.S. cities served n/s or direct: BOS, ORD, CVG, CLE, DFW, DTW, HNL, HOU, IND, MCI, LAX, MCO, PHL, PIT, RDU, STL, SAT, SFO, TPA, DCA, IAD. Pan Am Express, opb: Air Atlanta MEM, ATL; Republic MSP; Empire ALB, BGM, BUF, BTV, ELM, BDL, ITH, ROC, SYR, UCA.

MIA Services:

Caribbean/Mexico/Central & South America: n/s to ANU, BGI, FPO, PAP, STT, MEX, GUA, MAR, CCS, GIG, EZE. Same plane, one-stop service to SXM, SDQ, POS, SCL.

Europe: n/s to LHR

U.S.: n/s or direct to CLT, DFW, IAH, LAX, MCO, JFK, LGA, TPA, IAD, DCA. Pan Express opb Air Atlanta to ATL, MEM.

LHR Services:

U.S.: n/s to JFK 3x daily, LAX, MIA, SFO, IAD, DTW 5x/wk, SEA 5x/wk.

Europe: n/s to AMS, BRU, NUE (no local traffic) and TXL, FRA, MUC.

FRA Hub Services:

U.S.: n/s to JFK 2x daily, LAX, IAD

Connecting services to Europe, Middle & Near East: n/s to ATH, LHR, WAW, ZAG, DHA, DXB, KHI with same plane service to BEG, DBV, BOM, DEL.

Other intra-Eurpean connections opb PA 72S or 73S: MUC-DBV; MUC-BUD-OTP; HAM-AMS; HAM-VIE; ZRH-STR; ZRH-GVA-IST; ZRH-TXL.

Internal German Services: n/s TXL to FRA, HAM, MUC, NUE, STR.

NRT Hub Services:

U.S.: n/s to JFK 11x/wk, HNL, LAX, SFO

Asia: n/s to OSA, SEL, PEK, SHA, MNL, TPE, HKG. One-stop direct to BKK, SIN.

Australia/New Zealand Services: SFO-LAX-SYD-MEL 3x/wk; JFK-LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD 3x/wk; JFK-LAX-HNL-SYD-MEL 1x/wk.

Other n/s routes from non-hub cities: IAD-CDG 3x/wk; TPA-MEX; IAD-MEX; SFO-HKG.

Pan Am Express flights opb Republic to/from DTW, all n/s: ATL, ORD, CVG, CLE, DFW, FWA, GRR, GRB, IAH, IND, AZO, MCI, MSN, MEM, MKE, BNA, PHX, MBS, STL, SAN, SEA and SBN.

Soon after Pan Am's June 1, 1985 timetable, the Pacific network would be taken over by UA, followed by the LHR routes in May, 1991, followed by DL replacing PA on the remaining Trans-Atlantic routes about six months later at about the same time that Pan Am could "hang in there" no longer. While Pan Am has been gone for nearly a decade, it is not forgotten!

Please add any facts or thoughts or memories you wish to concerning Pan Am.




 
Laserjet
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2000 5:01 pm

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:22 pm

Wow - interesting information - and lots of it too!
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Tue Jul 31, 2001 11:41 pm

Still a beast of an operation in 85...but the storm clouds had already started forming....

In a way, it was Pan Am's own history that would help eventually kill it...looking at where they were flying in 85 sort of confirms this....(We Fly To Africa because we've ALWAYS flown to Africa!)..

In the early and middle part of the century Pan Am started and thrived as an exotic "instrument of American diplomacy"......what it needed to be in 85 was a leaner, meaner, smarter domestic competitor. It should have worried less about Frankfort , Germany and more about Charlotte, or Salt Lake City or Phoenix....American cities that were exploding in growth and potential passenger load.

Oh, I know they tried...buying National was the right idea, but not enough of it. Honestly, I think if someone in 85 (or earlier, say 82) said "Guys! Let's trade in all 52 747s for 73s, 75s and 76s"...and started to aggressively schedule within the US, feeding their hubs to overseas... they might just be around today. But the thought pattern seemed to be Pan Am invented the 747. Pan Am ALWAYS flew 747s. It was only proper that they have one of the biggest fleets of them. Someone with a US flag on the tail has to fly to Melbourne, dammit! It has to be us!

What a shame. Think of a vibrant Pan Am in 2001 (haha not quite reaching the space stations yet). What other lines might they have gobbled up?(USAir? Continental?) What hubs would they have closed? (LAX? FRA?)...Where might they have opened new ones?(DTW? MSO?)...how would the A320s they ordered too late have looked in Clipper colors? What about A319s in Pam Am Shuttle liveries? Or the graceful A340, winging the meatball logo across the Pacific, the modern China Clipper..

If ever there was a case study about the mighty brand name that was infallible, the industry leader that could never, ever dissapeer...suddenly doing just that, alas, it had to be PAA. Suits in offices with names on the door like General Motors, IBM, GE...even Microsoft....should get a respectful chill in their spines when they remember Pan Am.
 
767-322ETOPS
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 9:06 am

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 2:57 am

Pan Am was the de facto American flag carrier.
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 5:13 am

PAN AM did what the carriers of today would never do. If the service was really that slow then they should've either pulled out and canceled service or serve it through codeshares. I remeber PA flying to places with litte or no loads no for reason other than "We must fly there" such as Wake Islands...with a gas guzzling 747. The other big mistake was where PA could've used more maintinance and fuel efficient ac like the A300 or A310 PA use the gas guzzler on routes like JFK-LHR, JFK-FRA, JFK-CDG, JFK-SJU and other places that could've used the Airbus fleet. If PA weas still around they would've flown with all Airbuses considering that PA was way too late in replacing their aging 727 and 737 fleet with A320s. PA had a big enough A300/A310 fleet as is. The Pacific route depatures should've been a wake up call for the management but unfortionatly they had kept with the PA legacy of going every where. They wet under also due to very little domestic routes. TWA survived for more than 10 years after PA due to ditching the gas guzzling 747-100 and the L-1011s in 1997 along with having an extensive domestic route system in place many years ago. PA also went uder due to Trippe's failure to find a good successor that cared for the welfare of the airline.
"FUIMUS"
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 5:29 am

I dont know much about Pan Am, but from what ive heard they went under. If they went under, how did someone post a pic of a Pan Am 727 at Worcester, saying it was leaving on a flight on jul 20, 2001. The pic was just added today, i belive its number is 148869, or 178720. I dont understand this, if the numbers are wrong, i'm sorry.I'd appreciate if someone could explain this to me. Thanks

Thanks for the info on Pan Am, very interesting.
 
Pilot1113
Posts: 2276
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:42 pm

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:00 am

Phxairfan...

The picture you're talking about isn't false. There's another Pan Am flying around. I believe this is round 3 for that name. The current Pan Am is a joke of an airline and it's an embarrassment to the name.

- Neil Harrison
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:04 am

After Pan Am went under in 1991, its assets were sold off. Part of the sell-off was its trademarked corporate logo - the blue globe with the words panam on it. What you see hobbling around third string airports today are aircraft belonging to the corporate group who purchased the logo. It's a sad facsimile of what was once America's de facto flag carrier. In any case, I wish it luck !! We really do need more competition in the aviation sector in the US today.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
phxairfan
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:22 am

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 6:56 am

Thank you for answering my question, I did not mean to call it flase I just didn't understand. Thanks
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 8:44 am

Interesting topic.
The only time I flew on Pam Am was in 1985. I flew LAX-JFK 747-100. It was a spectacular flight! One I will always remeber.
Bring back the Concorde
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2471
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: Pan Am In 1985

Wed Aug 01, 2001 9:06 am


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Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Joe Pries



It's amazing how big Pan Am was all over the world. It's 10 years and I still miss my beautiful PAN AM...


Pan Am, World's Most Experienced Airline

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Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.

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