RainerBoeing777
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Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:39 am

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Hello everyone ! will have information of which are the main intercontinental routes of the airport of incheon ?

I have seen a lot of growth on the ICN-FRA route, the three airlines that operate this route are using their Jumbos, Lufthansa with their Boeing 747-400, Korean Air with their elegant Boeing 747-8i and Asiana Airlines increased quite by introducing their Airbus service A380-800, I think it's the busiest route from seoul to europe, there's a lot of capacity

In the FCO route I have also noticed a remarkable growth, Korean Air during the summer 2017 increased its service with its elegant Boeing 747-8i and maintains service in both summer and winter seasons, Asiana Airlines increased its frequency in summer five times through week to daily flights, the only one that I see stagnant is Alitalia that has only three flights per week

The ICN-SYD route has also had a remarkable growth the two airlines that operate this route use their big jumbos in the winter season, Korean Air with its Boeing 747-8i and Asiana Airlines with its Airbus A380

In SFO I see a remarkable growth, Korean Air increased its service with two daily flights using its Boeing 777-300ER, Asiana Airlines increased its capacity with its new Airbus A350, the only one that I see stalled is United that with the capacity with a Boeing 787- 9 with a route with so much demand should use the new Boeing 777-300ER

SEA has also had an increase since it has three daily flights during the 2017 Korean Air increased its frequencies now fly to SEA with daily flights with its Boeing 777-300ER

And the routes LAX, JFK, CDG and LHR historically have always been the busiest, although I have noticed a slight decrease in JFK since Asiana Airlines is using its Boeing 777-200ER during the winter season, and Korean Air its second daily flight is being operated by the Boeing 747-8I, at LAX note a notorious growth Singapore Airlines introduced a second daily flight to LAX via ICN, and during the high season Korean Air increased its service with a Boeing 777-300ER with five frecuency weekly and in some daily times

And I do not know if I'm wrong but I think the FRA route exceeded CDG and LHR in number of passengers, the economy in Germany has increased notoriously increased the demand for premium passengers and due to these the airlines increases their operations with megajumbos
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:42 am

Interesting about the amount of demand between ICN and FRA. Wouldn't expect that, but I guess OZ benefits from feed from LH.
Also I'm surprised QF doesn't fly to ICN yet.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:57 am

PerfectGriffin wrote:
Interesting about the amount of demand between ICN and FRA. Wouldn't expect that, but I guess OZ benefits from feed from LH.
Also I'm surprised QF doesn't fly to ICN yet.


It surprises me so much QF and NZ do not have flights to ICN from their respective Hub, the demand in Sydney is very large, and Auckland is Star Alliance territory and the market is dominated by a Skyteam Airline, Korean Air during the winter season uses its Boeing 747-8i, I'm surprised that Asiana and Air New Zealand do not have non-stop flights to Seoul Incheon
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:11 am

Simple explanation is that most of the traffic originates from, and returns to, Korea. QF and NZ can't reach breakeven LF. KE can.
 
kriskim
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:33 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
Interesting about the amount of demand between ICN and FRA. Wouldn't expect that, but I guess OZ benefits from feed from LH.
Also I'm surprised QF doesn't fly to ICN yet.


It surprises me so much QF and NZ do not have flights to ICN from their respective Hub, the demand in Sydney is very large, and Auckland is Star Alliance territory and the market is dominated by a Skyteam Airline, Korean Air during the winter season uses its Boeing 747-8i, I'm surprised that Asiana and Air New Zealand do not have non-stop flights to Seoul Incheon


Flights are very low yield, QF can simply make money elsewhere. KE barely filled up their J cabins when they flew their A380's to SYD during the northern winter peak. I guess atleast QF has a code share with OZ on their SYD-ICN flight. The only Australian carrier I can see launching services to ICN is JQ.

I would like to see KE and OZ expand further in Australia though, could see a flight to MEL sometime in the future, and year round CNS flights, possibly even flights for OOL too.
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planemanofnz
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:52 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
It surprises me ... NZ do not have flights to ICN ... Auckland is Star Alliance territory

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

You are not alone - AKL is crying out for additional OZ or NZ services to/from Korea:

- Korea has the most unserved demand for travel to AKL of anywhere (as per AKL Airport)
- Korean arrivals to New Zealand grew by more than 8% in the past year, and tourism by 9%
- AKL has double the Korean population of BNE, and ~4-5x the Korean population of MEL

See:
- https://corporate.aucklandairport.co.nz ... sentations ('Investor day presentation').
- https://www.tourismnewzealand.com/marke ... uth-korea/.

kriskim wrote:
Flights are very low yield.

What is your source for this? I dispute this, based on a number of factors (not limited to):

- KE and OZ sending their flagship products to SYD (and AKL, for KE), at least seasonally
- Korea not having Chinese-level pricing pressures (e.g. SYD-HAK on HU for ~AUD 200 RT)
- FTAs and strong trade demand supporting high-yielding cargo (e.g. Samsung Healthcare)

ICN is regularly one of, if not the most expensive non-stop Asian destination, ex-AKL/SYD.

WPvsMW wrote:
Simple explanation is that most of the traffic originates from, and returns to, Korea. QF and NZ can't reach breakeven LF.

Most traffic on NZ/QF's Chinese and Japanese routes are majority Asia-originating, too - in both markets, they do fine.

It is also noteworthy that for Australia, Korean flights had the third highest LF for Asia, after Hong Kong and Indonesia.

See: https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... FY2017.pdf.

Cheers,

C.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:23 am

kriskim wrote:
I would like to see KE and OZ expand further in Australia though, could see a flight to MEL sometime in the future, and year round CNS flights, possibly even flights for OOL too.


Jin Air already flies to CNS. Would love to see KE at MEL or dare I say... PER
 
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zeke
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:29 pm

Would think the busiest intercontinental route would be ICN-ANC.
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RainerBoeing777
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:39 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
kriskim wrote:
I would like to see KE and OZ expand further in Australia though, could see a flight to MEL sometime in the future, and year round CNS flights, possibly even flights for OOL too.


Jin Air already flies to CNS. Would love to see KE at MEL or dare I say... PER


MEL it's time to open this route, Korean Air can use its fantastic Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner is perfect for this route! the same with PER, Asiana Airlines can also start MEL with their A350-900, and many airlines in the area operate with this model such as Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines and China Airlines
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:40 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
MEL it's time to open this route, Korean Air can use its fantastic Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner is perfect for this route!

I doubt that KE will return to MEL in the near future. KE tried in MEL, and failed - as recently as 2013.

Korean-born populations in Australia rank as:

1. New South Wales (SYD) - ~42,000
2. Queensland (BNE) - ~12,000
3. Victoria (MEL) - ~10,000
4. Western Australia (PER) - ~4,000

See: https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/fi ... /korea.pdf.

Further, in terms of business and commerce:

- Most Korean companies have their regional HQ in SYD, not MEL (like Hyundai, LG and Samsung)
- Most Melbourne-based companies, like ANZ and BHP have a minimal presence within South Korea

Victoria also lacks the tourism appeal of New Zealand and Queensland, for Korean package holidays.

That being said, I would love to be proven wrong, particularly if OZ can make work what KE could not.

Cheers,

C.
 
kriskim
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:11 pm

^ That was about 5 years ago now, the market has changed. There has been growing demand for services to ICN as the local population grows, the number of Korean students studying in Melbourne has also grown too, and so has Korean tourists and arrivals into Melbourne/Victoria but then again these aren't exactly high yielding pax. I guess using the local population is a good indicator but its not really a deciding factor.

Take a look at Japanese-Australians, only about 5,300~ people are of Japanese ancestry in Melbourne, yet there are 2 daily flights to NRT, with QF and JL, however Melbourne - Japan is higher yielding thanks to many Japanese interests in Melbourne. Also I disagree about Melbourne's appeal to Koreans, it might lack sunny beaches and the Sydney Harbour, but it is getting quite popular for millennials with its vibrant and hipster image, it bodes well with younger Koreans. The same, again can be said with the Japanese market, the appeal of Queensland and Sydney is still there, but Melbourne is increasingly attracting more and more Japanese tourists.

I also find that many Korean tourists are bundling up Melbourne with Sydney and Queensland (mainly Gold Coast/Cairns). There has been alot of marketing in place to grow Korean visitation to Melbourne, this includes features on popular Korean shows like, 'I am Singer', 'Running Man' and '2PM's Wild Beat'.

I think MEL-ICN warrants a thrice weekly service. If KE mainline does not want to try, maybe let Jin Air give it ago. Melbourne has an extensive route network to North East Asia (NRT, TPE, PVG, CAN, PEK, HGH, CTU, XMN, XIY, CSX, HKG, TAO, CKG, SZX) yet it has no connection to ICN, which is quite interesting.

planemanofnz wrote:
kriskim wrote:
Flights are very low yield.

What is your source for this? I dispute this, based on a number of factors (not limited to):

- KE and OZ sending their flagship products to SYD (and AKL, for KE), at least seasonally
- Korea not having Chinese-level pricing pressures (e.g. SYD-HAK on HU for ~AUD 200 RT)
- FTAs and strong trade demand supporting high-yielding cargo (e.g. Samsung Healthcare)

ICN is regularly one of, if not the most expensive non-stop Asian destination, ex-AKL/SYD.


They fly their A380's in, mainly due to the uplift in demand for seats during the Australian summer peak. It is expensive due to limited competition on non-stop flights.

Although I think another carrier should fly to AKL, to increase competition and stimulate demand.
Last edited by kriskim on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kriskim
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:16 pm

- Multiple Posts -
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dredgy
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:34 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
kriskim wrote:
Flights are very low yield.

What is your source for this?


While I am fairly sure that KE makes very, very good yields judging by their (anecdotal) load factors plus their pricing, they do have at least some low yield passengers. KE has (or had, as recently as last year) a partnership with student flights for black market flights and I was able to pick up return BNE-CDG for ~$850AU. I fly them in premium cabins fairly regularly and they do pretty well ex BNE and SYD. Korean-Australian market is doing very well from what I understand.

Plus ICN is, I'm fairly sure, Qantas' most requested Asian destination.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:03 pm

kriskim wrote:
That was about 5 years ago now, the market has changed.

For this route, what has actually changed though? All I can find is the opening of a Victorian Government Business Office in Seoul, in 2014.

Although tourism growth is strong, QLD (which only supports 4x flights pw part-year) has about 60% more Korean visitors than MEL / VIC.

See: http://www.tourism.australia.com/conten ... 002899.pdf.

I would love to be proven wrong - an option might be for OZ to extend a MEL flight to New Zealand (CHC or WLG), as CI do and SQ will?

Cheers,

C.
 
NichCage
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Re: Busiest international intercontinental routes in ICN

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:18 am

I'm sure that ICN-Barcelona is an fast growing market. KE flies five times a week and OZ will fly 4 times a week later on this year, so capacity on the route will increase. Quite weird to see both OZ and KE serve BCN, but the demand must be pretty high.

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