studentdrbev
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Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:12 pm

Is there any established procedure for a pax to visit the cockpit inflight? Last time while I requested to the chief steward of MH in a flight to KUL, I was denied outright :roll:
 
stratosphere
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:56 pm

studentdrbev wrote:
Is there any established procedure for a pax to visit the cockpit inflight? Last time while I requested to the chief steward of MH in a flight to KUL, I was denied outright :roll:


Europe used to be quite liberal about this but don't think even they allow it anymore. The US in the 30 years thus far working in the airline industry I don't remember anyone being allowed during flight into the cockpit other than authorized personal although I am sure it happened but after 9/11 you can totally forget it in the US and I assume most anywhere else..They are usually very accommodating after the flight is at the gate if you want to visit the flight deck.
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:14 pm

Yeah, there's an established procedure and it's really easy!
1) be a kid
2) ask before 2001

But seriously, how big a rock have you been living under for a rejection to surprise you?

(also are there any airlines left that still refer to male FAs as stewards?)
 
mikaelrules
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:26 am

I was able to visit the cockpit of the Iran Air 747SP during the flight from IKA-KUL back in 2016. Then again, they seemed used to people taking the flight for the sole purpose of flying the SP so they probably get the request quite often.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:07 am

Norway is known for the ability to jumpseat on commercial flights as a "regular person". I know Ben Wang got to do it a few years ago.

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aa87
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:09 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Yeah, there's an established procedure and it's really easy!
1) be a kid
2) ask before 2001


LOL. THat was going to be my answer. However, I can tell you that just before 9/11 I got upfront often on non-US carriers, including some while operating in the US which was totally illegal. For 2 years I worked for a large bank and our b class tickets were usually upgraded to first, so that helped a lot. Sat up front for t/o and landing on LH, BA, Cathay and Air Canada. But even before 9/11 US carriers were a big no-no in flight.

In the late 70s as a kid I used to pester flight attendants with questions about flying and their jobs. Once, and my first time, was brought up front on a National DC-10 mid-flight. What struck me first was looking out front and realizing it seemed we were suspended, no movement. I also thought the DC-10 power panel looked like a big cash register.

I will also mention even today El Al will allow in-flight cockpit visits on a case by case basis for "known" pax. "Known" means you know a crew member, or you have some kind of personal connections. They view it purely as an issue of a "known quantity" to a crew member.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:32 am

I got a jumpseat on a Convair 580 last year. It was a splendid old bird.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
zrs70
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:04 am

There was an Aeroflot incident years ago with a crash caused by a child visiting the cockpit.

https://youtu.be/XrgXM8QjEqY
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studentdrbev
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:35 am

zrs70 wrote:
There was an Aeroflot incident years ago with a crash caused by a child visiting the cockpit.

https://youtu.be/XrgXM8QjEqY


That involved the negligence of the pilots. They were too unprofessional. Furthermore, the boy was a teen :flamed:
 
VSMUT
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:39 am

There is no guaranteed way, but your best chance would be to send the airline an email with your request beforehand.

It is still possible to ask in the aircraft and get to ride in the cockpit, even in Europe, but there just aren't very many airlines that do it. I used to fly for an airline from '16 to '17 where we probably had a jumpseater on 1 in 4 flights, half of which were passengers who just asked when boarding. It was nice.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:21 am

VSMUT wrote:
There is no guaranteed way, but your best chance would be to send the airline an email with your request beforehand.

It is still possible to ask in the aircraft and get to ride in the cockpit, even in Europe, but there just aren't very many airlines that do it. I used to fly for an airline from '16 to '17 where we probably had a jumpseater on 1 in 4 flights, half of which were passengers who just asked when boarding. It was nice.


There are only a few airlines who still allow it post-9/11. I know of only one large one in Europe that still allows it, as of last time I heard. Maybe that's changed now.

It's not allowed at all for any airline flying into the US or Canada.

In today's security environment, I wouldn't even ask.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:23 am

studentdrbev wrote:
Is there any established procedure for a pax to visit the cockpit inflight? Last time while I requested to the chief steward of MH in a flight to KUL, I was denied outright :roll:


You're lucky you weren't arrested. Don't even ask. That's a very bad idea. At least you'd be questioned and warned.

Nothing wrong with asking to visit the flight deck when you are disembarking at the gate, but in today's security environment, I highly recommend you not even ask. Certainly don't ask in the US.
 
IPFreely
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:44 am

XAM2175 wrote:
Yeah, there's an established procedure and it's really easy!
1) be a kid
2) ask before 2001


That's one way. But there's another way....
http://en.mercopress.com/2015/06/29/aer ... f-throttle
 
aklrno
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:58 am

Fly Sounds Air between Wellington and Picton or Blenheim and ask to sit next to the pilot in one of their Grand Caravans. Ok, so it’s not a 777, but you are in an airline cockpit.
 
Chemist
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:46 am

I managed to do this 3 different times pre-9/11 (but not by much). It was on the first non-US airline flights I had taken. Once on KLM 747-300 over Greenland, once on KLM 747-400, and once a jumpseat ride from 10K feet down to landing into LHR on Virgin Atlantic 747-400. Certainly the highlight of the bunch.

Per a previous poster, I don't believe that flight deck visits on foreign airlines were illegal in the US - it was the airline policy and was illegal for US airlines, but not for foreign flag carriers. On that same Virgin Atlantic flight, my co-worker got to sit jumpseat for takeoff on Virgin from LAX. Good times.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:36 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
studentdrbev wrote:
Is there any established procedure for a pax to visit the cockpit inflight? Last time while I requested to the chief steward of MH in a flight to KUL, I was denied outright :roll:


You're lucky you weren't arrested. Don't even ask. That's a very bad idea. At least you'd be questioned and warned.

Nothing wrong with asking to visit the flight deck when you are disembarking at the gate, but in today's security environment, I highly recommend you not even ask. Certainly don't ask in the US.


You are paranoid, nobody is going to arrest or question you for asking in Europe. It isn't illegal to ask in the first place, so the police wouldn't even bother to interfere. I know, because I have asked a ton of times over the past few years, and I have yet to be questioned, arrested or warned.

And FYI, a lot more than one major european airline allows jumpseaters.
 
BC77008
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:25 pm

As others have said, in the U.S., forget about visiting a cockpit inflight. It would be strictly prohibited. However, on the ground while deplaning most pilots I have worked with would be more than happy to let you visit the cockpit for a minute or so. Pilots truly love aviation and would completely "get it" as to why someone would be interested in visiting the flight deck, and it's really not at all an "odd" request. For now, at least we have plenty of Youtube videos to watch of the cockpit view in flight!
Last edited by BC77008 on Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:32 pm

VSMUT wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
studentdrbev wrote:
Is there any established procedure for a pax to visit the cockpit inflight? Last time while I requested to the chief steward of MH in a flight to KUL, I was denied outright :roll:


You're lucky you weren't arrested. Don't even ask. That's a very bad idea. At least you'd be questioned and warned.

Nothing wrong with asking to visit the flight deck when you are disembarking at the gate, but in today's security environment, I highly recommend you not even ask. Certainly don't ask in the US.


You are paranoid, nobody is going to arrest or question you for asking in Europe. It isn't illegal to ask in the first place, so the police wouldn't even bother to interfere. I know, because I have asked a ton of times over the past few years, and I have yet to be questioned, arrested or warned.

And FYI, a lot more than one major european airline allows jumpseaters.


Next time you are in the US ask for a jumpseat ride in flight, smart guy. See how far you get.
 
BC77008
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:38 pm

VSMUT wrote:

And FYI, a lot more than one major european airline allows jumpseaters.


Which European airlines allow the general public (not accredited flight/in-flight crew personnel) to sit in a flight deck jump seat?
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:53 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
studentdrbev wrote:
Is there any established procedure for a pax to visit the cockpit inflight? Last time while I requested to the chief steward of MH in a flight to KUL, I was denied outright :roll:

You're lucky you weren't arrested. Don't even ask. That's a very bad idea. At least you'd be questioned and warned.

Nothing wrong with asking to visit the flight deck when you are disembarking at the gate, but in today's security environment, I highly recommend you not even ask. Certainly don't ask in the US.

BoeingGuy wrote:
Next time you are in the US ask for a jumpseat ride in flight, smart guy. See how far you get.

I have this horrible, horrible feeling you are 100% serious.
If I was a patriotic American, I would not be making such a big deal about this quite frankly shameful behavior.
Answering the enquiry with a firm "no" is one matter. Laughing at the very thought of someone asking, maybe.
But being questioned and warned ? (by whom?)

In fact, on the whole subject, quiet, as a mouse, would I be.

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ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:43 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:

Next time you are in the US ask for a jumpseat ride in flight, smart guy. See how far you get.

I usually end up getting a polite "sorry, that's no longer allowed" with a smile from the cabin crew and an extra cup of coffee when I ask.

What do you think is gonna happen there "BoeingGuy"?
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:05 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Next time you are in the US ask for a jumpseat ride in flight, smart guy. See how far you get.

I usually end up getting a polite "sorry, that's no longer allowed" with a smile from the cabin crew and an extra cup of coffee when I ask.

What do you think is gonna happen there "BoeingGuy"?


I've expressed my opinion. I think it's very foolish and disrespectful. You know in today's security environment it's not allowed. You know that there have been some subsequent attempted breaches of the flight deck. Even asking is really inappropriate and amateurish.

And yes, I can see a time where someone would get pulled off an airplane and questioned for asking. Do what you want, but it's not an advisable thing to do in the US.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:12 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:

I've expressed my opinion. I think it's very foolish and disrespectful. You know in today's security environment it's not allowed. You know that there have been some subsequent attempted breaches of the flight deck. Even asking is really inappropriate and amateurish.

And yes, I can see a time where someone would get pulled off an airplane and questioned for asking. Do what you want, but it's not an advisable thing to do in the US.

"Inappropriate and amateurish"? "Foolish and disrespectful"? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I travel enough in the US to know that there is nothing wrong with asking
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hinckley
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:30 pm

Way back in the 90s, I flew CP from BOS to YVR. It was a perfect day crossing the continent, the flight was lightly loaded and I was the only passenger in the front cabin. The pilots kept the cockpit door open during the entire flight and I was in and out of the flight deck throughout the flight. At one point crossing the Rockies, the pilots invited all the passengers onboard to come up to the cockpit to see the view! As we were preparing to land, I was exiting the forward lav when the pilots yelled out to me to come up and sit in the jump seat for the landing at YVR! Ya . . . times have changed since then!
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I've expressed my opinion. I think it's very foolish and disrespectful. You know in today's security environment it's not allowed. You know that there have been some subsequent attempted breaches of the flight deck. Even asking is really inappropriate and amateurish.

And yes, I can see a time where someone would get pulled off an airplane and questioned for asking. Do what you want, but it's not an advisable thing to do in the US.

"Inappropriate and amateurish"? "Foolish and disrespectful"? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I travel enough in the US to know that there is nothing wrong with asking


If you are asking flight crews to let you visit a flight deck in flight in the US in 2018 you are really a fool.

Clearly you know nothing about the industry. And you aren’t intelligent enough to know it. One of these days you are going to rub a flight crew the wrong way and you will be in trouble.
 
AviationEurope
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:41 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I've expressed my opinion. I think it's very foolish and disrespectful. You know in today's security environment it's not allowed. You know that there have been some subsequent attempted breaches of the flight deck. Even asking is really inappropriate and amateurish.

And yes, I can see a time where someone would get pulled off an airplane and questioned for asking. Do what you want, but it's not an advisable thing to do in the US.

"Inappropriate and amateurish"? "Foolish and disrespectful"? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I travel enough in the US to know that there is nothing wrong with asking


If you are asking flight crews to let you visit a flight deck in flight in the US in 2018 you are really a fool.

Clearly you know nothing about the industry. And you aren’t intelligent enough to know it. One of these days you are going to rub a flight crew the wrong way and you will be in trouble.


While I would be quite surprised if you were allowed to ride visit the cockpit inflight on many airlines (particularly in the US and Europe), I really don't think there is anything wrong with asking, as long as you are polite and accept it if they say you can't. I don't get how asking is "inappropriate" or "disrespectful" in any way if it. While there are officious pilots and cabin crew out there, I really would be surprised if simply asking in a respectful way would get you removed from the flight and/or arrested.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:07 pm

AviationEurope wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
"Inappropriate and amateurish"? "Foolish and disrespectful"? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I travel enough in the US to know that there is nothing wrong with asking


If you are asking flight crews to let you visit a flight deck in flight in the US in 2018 you are really a fool.

Clearly you know nothing about the industry. And you aren’t intelligent enough to know it. One of these days you are going to rub a flight crew the wrong way and you will be in trouble.


While I would be quite surprised if you were allowed to ride visit the cockpit inflight on many airlines (particularly in the US and Europe), I really don't think there is anything wrong with asking, as long as you are polite and accept it if they say you can't. I don't get how asking is "inappropriate" or "disrespectful" in any way if it. While there are officious pilots and cabin crew out there, I really would be surprised if simply asking in a respectful way would get you removed from the flight and/or arrested.


My point is that you clearly know it is not allowed, PERIOD. No if ands or buts. So why ask when you know it’s illegal.

You are asking a flight crew to allow you to do something that you both clearly know is illegal and they cannot allow you to do.

It’s also a sensitive issue because of the terrorist attacks, so yes it’s foolish and disrespectful to ask.

Further, the crew probably thinks you are either a terrorist or, more likely, a complete idiot for asking.

The fact that ADC8 hasn’t been met by security for asking a flight crew to visit the flight deck in flight in the USA tells us which they think he is.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:28 pm

Let’s ask some US based flight crew members on this forum for you input.

A regular flyer, who is well aware of 9/11 and security rules, approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person knows full well that is illegal but asks you anyway.

How do you react? What would you think if that happened?
 
ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:43 pm

OMG! This is becoming priceless!

BoeingGuy - no one is going to think that you’re a “terrorist” unless maybe, there’s some racial profiling going on, which is another topic all together.

No one is going to call “security” for asking a simple question. If you start throwing a temper tantrum or becoming argumentative then that’s something completely different and has nothing to do with asking a simple question.

Even though we “know” we can’t bring more than a 100ml bottle of liquid past security, yet they’re asked constantly on a daily basis if one can bring their bottle of water past. Does security think all these people are terrorists as well? Do they flag them for asking a simple question? Of course not.

The fact that you think that cabin crew are going to throw someone down because they asked a simple question in a polite manner clearly demonstrates that it’s not I who is out of touch with the industry.

Yes, you may get a bad attitude crew member who will take something out of context, but they’re a ticking clock that will have something that’ll set them off. But if that were to happen, my suggestion to you would be to hit up a lottery ticket because the chances of winning the jackpot are just as good.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:51 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
A regular flyer, who is well aware of 9/11 and security rules, approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person knows full well that is illegal but asks you anyway.

Nice move; I don't know what it is called in the paranoid USA, but the rest of the world would describe what you have done as "moving the goalposts"

Why are you now limiting it to "A regular flyer"?
How does this US flight crew know for a fact they are dealing with "a regular flyer"?
I fly regularly, but not on any US airlines; they don't have me listed anywhere on their databases....

This is the scenario you should have posted;
Somebody, who may (or may not) be a regular flyer, who may (or may not) be well aware of 9/11 and security rules (that only apply in the USA), approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person may (or may not) know full well that this is illegal (only in the USA), but asks you anyway.


There, fixed it for you.

Now, what exactly is the problem?
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:07 am

My last cockpit visit was late 1996 on the way back from Tenerife, probably on a 757.
As ever, I swung it on the pretext of my young daughter being curious.

Of course, she wasn't interested in the flightdeck at all.

And funnily enough, neither was I.

The only reason I wanted to get up front was because Comet Hale-Bop was visible at that time, and although I had already seen it from the ground, I was very interested in catching sight of it from FL390, well above any pollution or ground haze. And as we all know, the triple-walled plastic & glass side windows on an airliner are more or less useless for sightseeing, hence I wanted vision through a distortion free piece of cockpit glass.

Happy days..... :D
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:17 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
A regular flyer, who is well aware of 9/11 and security rules, approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person knows full well that is illegal but asks you anyway.

Nice move; I don't know what it is called in the paranoid USA, but the rest of the world would describe what you have done as "moving the goalposts"

Why are you now limiting it to "A regular flyer"?
How does this US flight crew know for a fact they are dealing with "a regular flyer"?
I fly regularly, but not on any US airlines; they don't have me listed anywhere on their databases....

This is the scenario you should have posted;
Somebody, who may (or may not) be a regular flyer, who may (or may not) be well aware of 9/11 and security rules (that only apply in the USA), approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person may (or may not) know full well that this is illegal (only in the USA), but asks you anyway.


There, fixed it for you.

Now, what exactly is the problem?


You are very factually incorrect my friend. But I wouldn’t expect any different.

The security rules must certainly do not only apply in the US. You saying that shows you know little about Aviation.

They apply in most of the world. Try asking Qantas or British for a jumpseat ride. Ask ANA. Ask Singapore. Ask Cathay. Ask LATAM. Tell me how that goes.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:19 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
A regular flyer, who is well aware of 9/11 and security rules, approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person knows full well that is illegal but asks you anyway.

Nice move; I don't know what it is called in the paranoid USA, but the rest of the world would describe what you have done as "moving the goalposts"

Why are you now limiting it to "A regular flyer"?
How does this US flight crew know for a fact they are dealing with "a regular flyer"?
I fly regularly, but not on any US airlines; they don't have me listed anywhere on their databases....

This is the scenario you should have posted;
Somebody, who may (or may not) be a regular flyer, who may (or may not) be well aware of 9/11 and security rules (that only apply in the USA), approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person may (or may not) know full well that this is illegal (only in the USA), but asks you anyway.


There, fixed it for you.

Now, what exactly is the problem?


You are very factually incorrect my friend. But I wouldn’t expect any different.

The security rules must certainly do not only apply in the US. You saying that shows you know little about Aviation.

They apply in most of the world. Try asking Qantas or British for a jumpseat ride. Ask ANA. Ask Singapore. Ask Cathay. Ask LATAM. Tell me how that goes.


Watch out guys we have a bad-ass over here.

Literally nothing would happen to you if you asked. They'd just say no and move on.
Stay curious
 
IPFreely
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:59 am

CCGPV wrote:
Watch out guys we have a bad-ass over here.

Literally nothing would happen to you if you asked. They'd just say no and move on.


He's not a bad-ass, he's just the board's resident grumpy old man.

There is no point in asking but you are correct -- if you ask respectfully you will get a polite but firm no and that's it. No handcuffs, beatdowns, incarceration, or felony charges. If you throw a fit and start pounding on the cockpit door screaming "let me in", that's another story...but that is not what the OP suggested.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:46 am

IPFreely wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
Watch out guys we have a bad-ass over here.

Literally nothing would happen to you if you asked. They'd just say no and move on.


He's not a bad-ass, he's just the board's resident grumpy old man.

There is no point in asking but you are correct -- if you ask respectfully you will get a polite but firm no and that's it. No handcuffs, beatdowns, incarceration, or felony charges. If you throw a fit and start pounding on the cockpit door screaming "let me in", that's another story...but that is not what the OP suggested.


Just because I didn’t agree with your over dramatized rant about the 737 doesn’t mean I’m a grumpy old man. Or whatever it was we didn’t agree on.

I’m just saying it’s not a good idea to ask in the US, especially when you already know it’s both illegal and a sensitive issue with some. What is so hard about that to understand?
 
ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:27 am

BoeingGuy wrote:

I’m just saying it’s not a good idea to ask in the US, especially when you already know it’s both illegal and a sensitive issue with some. What is so hard about that to understand?

Its not "illegal" to ask - what's so hard about that to understand?

If someone is "sensitive" about a simple question, perhaps they'll feel better once they find a safe place to deal with the trauma :sarcastic:
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mmo
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:51 am

Any airline operating into/out of the US, must prohibit any "sightseeing" in the cockpit by unauthorized visitors. Unauthorized visitors are pretty much anyone except authorized crew members of the airline, authorized (CASS approved) flight crew members (jump seaters) from other airlines, authorized mechanics, the FAA and other approved personnel as authorized by the Dir f Flt Ops. This applies to all (foreign and domestic operators) who operate under 121/125.

Any crew (read Capt) is a fool is he allows anyone into the cockpit after the doors are closed. It's not worth risking your job, your ticket and your livelihood just to let someone into the cockpit. Times have changed since 9/11, get used to it. I have seen people "escorted" off the aircraft just for asking. At that airline, the senior purser controlled the cabin like a tyrant. If he was pestered, badgered by someone to "have a look" the most simple thing to do was have them removed. I have seen it happen more than once and was only told after the fact.

Me personally, I would consider anyone who asked, especially in flight, an idiot. If they were very aggressive about it, I wouldn't think twice about having them booted off the flight. If it was inflight, I'd certainlly have people meet the aircraft on arrival.
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blandy62
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:45 am

got the chance to visit the flightdeck during on the flight on a Biman DC10 between HKG and DAC in 2013. Just asked the flight attendant who passed the request to the pilot.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:48 am

mmo wrote:
At that airline, the senior purser controlled the cabin like a tyrant.

And thats all one needs to know.
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:46 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
A regular flyer, who is well aware of 9/11 and security rules, approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person knows full well that is illegal but asks you anyway.
Or...
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Somebody, who may (or may not) be a regular flyer, who may (or may not) be well aware of 9/11 and security rules (that only apply in the USA), approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person may (or may not) know full well that this is illegal (only in the USA), but asks you anyway.

BoeingGuy wrote:
You are very factually incorrect my friend. But I wouldn’t expect any different.
The security rules must certainly do not only apply in the US. You saying that shows you know little about Aviation.
They apply in most of the world. Try asking Qantas or British for a jumpseat ride. Ask ANA. Ask Singapore. Ask Cathay. Ask LATAM. Tell me how that goes.

You are factually incorrect yourself, as you have been from the start.
And now that I have bounced your childish insult right back at you, perhaps you can stick to answering the point.

There is a big difference between FAA rules, applicable to ALL airlines in the US, and individual airline company guidelines elsewhere in the world. The fact you cannot tell the difference shows how little you know about aviation.

I have no doubt that many airlines (worldwide) have a company policy against cockpit visits.

The question arising from your comment is; Which countries, other than the USA, make it a point of law that cockpit visits (in flight) are illegal? And how many of those countries apply this legislation to ALL airlines within it's airspace, as opposed to just the airlines & aircraft registered to that country?

Just to start the ball rolling, here is an example of one I'm not going to accept;
Following an incident on board a Ryanair flight (Dublin - Berlin?), the Irelands Aviation watchdog, IAA stated
"'In general access to the cockpit is restricted to operational staff, including staff passengers, provided they are known to the Commander"
Notice the phrase "in general...", and be sure to ask a lawyer how far that gets you in court.


And in the spirit of fairness, here is an example of one that appears to qualify;
This website identifies "England" (I presume they mean the UK) as the only country in Europe with similar legislation.
I believe we have a "lutchzak" posting here on a.net, presumably not a total coincidence.
http://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47481

BoeingGuy wrote:
Try asking Qantas or British for a jumpseat ride. Ask ANA. Ask Singapore. Ask Cathay. Ask LATAM. Tell me how that goes.

I would expect a polite (& firm) refusal in every case. No drama, no histrionics, no police or other security agency involvement..
Now tell me exactly how that advances your argument? :lol:
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
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mmo
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:25 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
You are factually incorrect yourself, as you have been from the start.
And now that I have bounced your childish insult right back at you, perhaps you can stick to answering the point.

There is a big difference between FAA rules, applicable to ALL airlines in the US, and individual airline company guidelines elsewhere in the world. The fact you cannot tell the difference shows how little you know about aviation.

I have no doubt that many airlines (worldwide) have a company policy against cockpit visits.

The question arising from your comment is; Which countries, other than the USA, make it a point of law that cockpit visits (in flight) are illegal? And how many of those countries apply this legislation to ALL airlines within it's airspace, as opposed to just the airlines & aircraft registered to that country?


You are failing to grasp a very important point. There is a FAR , FAR 129, which covers all foreign operators operating to/from the US. Those airlines must, as part of their certification, comply with the FARs. Part of that is the security aspect. So, if you walk up to ANY foreign airline operating from their home country, they have to deny you the cockpit. This is not about BA flying from LHR to BKK or any place outside of the US, this is for ANY airline operating into/out of the US. Like it or not, those are the rules and I certainly would not risk my job to give someone a good view.
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a340crew
Posts: 166
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Let’s ask some US based flight crew members on this forum for you input.

A regular flyer, who is well aware of 9/11 and security rules, approaches you during a flight and asks to visit the flight deck in flight. This person knows full well that is illegal but asks you anyway.

How do you react? What would you think if that happened?


Really you can't even stand at the front galley waiting for the toilet to open because congregating is a security concern....

As a pilot I can tell you if a flight attendant called me and told me this, given its a grown adult asking and not a 4 year old kid, the cockpit would go on lockdown and we are looking for somewhere to divert. I am also sure there will be some guys waiting when we arrive to ask the individual some questions.

In the USA an announcement is made on most airlines "The flight deck door is at the front of the aircraft and unauthorized persons are not permitted access"
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:03 pm

mmo wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
There is a big difference between FAA rules, applicable to ALL airlines in the US, and individual airline company guidelines elsewhere in the world.
I have no doubt that many airlines (worldwide) have a company policy against cockpit visits.
Which countries, other than the USA, make it a point of law that cockpit visits (in flight) are illegal?
And how many of those countries apply this legislation to ALL airlines within it's airspace, as opposed to just the airlines & aircraft registered to that country?

You are failing to grasp a very important point. There is a FAR , FAR 129, which covers all foreign operators operating to/from the US. Those airlines must, as part of their certification, comply with the FARs. Part of that is the security aspect. So, if you walk up to ANY foreign airline operating from their home country, they have to deny you the cockpit.

Failing to grasp...? Oh please spare me.
You are not just talking FAR 129, you are specifically referring to FAR part 129 section 28.
And yes, I got that. Always did know that. Thankyou.

Maybe I should have worded my original comment thus;
There is a big difference between FAA rules, applicable to ALL airlines (operating) in the US (or to/from the US), (whether they are registered in the US or registered in some other country.)

Unfortunately all those extra words totally mangle the sentence, and I made the mistake of thinking ALL (underlined, capitalized) made it perfectly clear. With hindsight, I accept there is possibly some ambiguity. However, that is soon cleared up if you read my later comment about other countries "applying this legislation to ALL airlines within it's airspace, as opposed to just the airlines & aircraft registered to that country?"
Which is basically what you said, except I definitely said it first.

But if you think I didn't "grasp" FAR 129, then I guess despite all the evidence above, it must be "my bad."

Still waiting for somebody to come up with a list of the other countries that employ legislation that mimics FAR part 129 section 28.
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:22 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Let’s ask some US based flight crew members on this forum for you input.

a340crew wrote:
As a pilot....
Er... :shakehead:

a340crew wrote:
... the cockpit would go on lockdown and we are looking for somewhere to divert.
:rotfl:

a340crew wrote:
In the USA an announcement is made on most airlines "The flight deck door is at the front of the aircraft and unauthorized persons are not permitted access"

Surely, what you meant to say was;
A real pilot wrote:
As a pilot, this is the announcement I make to my passengers on every flight; "The flight deck door is ..."
Unfortunately, your version makes it sound like you are just a regular passenger.

Sorry, I really do not like calling people out, but you've got to admit, your story lacks any credibility. Please tell me I'm wrong?
I promised myself I'd leave before the party turned ugly. I would quit at 1000 !
Here I am stuck at 994; each time I'm tempted to post, I find myself wondering who will even read it / what is the point?
Or maybe I've just got nothing left to say.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:26 am

a340crew wrote:

Really you can't even stand at the front galley waiting for the toilet to open because congregating is a security concern....

As a pilot I can tell you if a flight attendant called me and told me this, given its a grown adult asking and not a 4 year old kid, the cockpit would go on lockdown and we are looking for somewhere to divert. I am also sure there will be some guys waiting when we arrive to ask the individual some questions.

In the USA an announcement is made on most airlines "The flight deck door is at the front of the aircraft and unauthorized persons are not permitted access"

What a load of rubbish!

The cockpit does not go “in lockdown” if a grow adult respectfully asks a question. No one will be waiting for you to ask questions when you arrive.

But here’s a question. Something we see everyday all over the US. If some pax are waiting in front to use the loo, “congregating” being the term? Do those pax cause the flight deck to “lockdown” as well? Will those pax have someone waiting to ask “questions” upon arrival? Of course not. They’re politely asked to please return to their seats and wait there. The plane doesn’t go into Def Con 4 and the Men in Black aren’t “waiting” for them either.
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a340crew
Posts: 166
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:50 am

ACDC8 wrote:

No one will be waiting for you to ask questions when you arrive.

But here’s a question. Something we see everyday all over the US. If some pax are waiting in front to use the loo, “congregating” being the term? Do those pax cause the flight deck to “lockdown” as well? Will those pax have someone waiting to ask “questions” upon arrival? Of course not. They’re politely asked to please return to their seats and wait there. The plane doesn’t go into Def Con 4 and the Men in Black aren’t “waiting” for them either.


I guess you have never seen 5 police officers waiting on the jet bridge when a flight needs to do a gate return because a pax won't get off there cellphone during taxi.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:44 am

a340crew wrote:

I guess you have never seen 5 police officers waiting on the jet bridge when a flight needs to do a gate return because a pax won't get off there cellphone during taxi.

And exactly how is not following repeated crew instructions even remotely the same as some one respectfully asking a simple question in a polite manner. That is a world of difference
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dfwjim1
Posts: 1912
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:06 pm

The bottom line is why even bother asking if there is not a chance of visiting the cockpit?
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:57 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
ACDC8 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I've expressed my opinion. I think it's very foolish and disrespectful. You know in today's security environment it's not allowed. You know that there have been some subsequent attempted breaches of the flight deck. Even asking is really inappropriate and amateurish.

And yes, I can see a time where someone would get pulled off an airplane and questioned for asking. Do what you want, but it's not an advisable thing to do in the US.

"Inappropriate and amateurish"? "Foolish and disrespectful"? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I travel enough in the US to know that there is nothing wrong with asking


If you are asking flight crews to let you visit a flight deck in flight in the US in 2018 you are really a fool.

Clearly you know nothing about the industry. And you aren’t intelligent enough to know it. One of these days you are going to rub a flight crew the wrong way and you will be in trouble.


Are you talking about asking to visit mid-flight or talking about visiting all-together, such as before/after the flight?
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PanzerPowner
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Re: Visiting the cockpit of an aircraft inflight

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:59 pm

Damn! I was born in the wrong generation. Curse being born after 2001... removes most of the fun of flying.
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.

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